Rafa Nadal

[Tyler'sTwin]

Was he a Fuentes client? What is the origin of all these OP rumors?

 

[spectacle]

he was reported to be on the list of 200 names just after OP broke, then the story disappeared. he has an uncle (or two) who plays for real madrid--so it's possible the nadal on the list was him not rafa.

we tried to discuss it at mens tennis forums but the administrators wouldn't let us. in tennis, the big cheating topic is usually match fixing. i forget who, but someone was threatened with a fine for not trying hard enough this past wimbeldon, and daveydenko was investigated for like a year for betting irregularities related to his matches (he lost matches he should have won and huge sums of money, several hundred thousand dollars, were bet on his opponents to win, who should have had no chance to win).

john macenro said on air a few years ago, during a match he was commentating, that boris becker used to inject cows blood and how it gave him the heebeejeebees whenever boris would talk about it. i got the impression that boris wasn't transfusing though, but main lining it like heroin. edit: i'm not even sure how that would work without killing you...

i wouldn't bet against rafa doping. he's conveniently taking 6 weeks off to make sure he is "super fit" for the US open.

 

[hrotha]

I thought only names of cyclists were divulged, and that because the Tour wanted the names before the start of the race? People involved with pro cycling are always complaining about the names of Fuentes' other clients not being made public.

I think Nadal has been linked to Puerto by journalists and the like, but as far as I know no solid evidence comparable to piti's blood bags has been divulged.

 

[The Hitch]

was looked at a bit in a wimbledon thread about 2 weeks ago. Nothing substancial but a few ideas were raised.

Nadal is much much much fitter than all his competitors, and the commentators put this down to him training harder. (now where have i heard this excuse used to defend those who are doping)
He looked old for an 18 year old when he burst onto the scene.
People have been caught in the lower levels, which suggests people are doping in the higher levels, and if anyone is doping nadal fits the bill.
Drug tests are infrequent and very easy to get around in tennis

Also i have seen this discussed in a tennis forum and surprisingly most of the members there despite being big tennis fans, and despite the importance of skill and precision (qualities that arent improved by doping) thought doping was quite widespread in the sport.

 

[spectacle]

Nadal is much much much fitter than all his competitors, and the commentators put this down to him training harder. (now where have i heard this excuse used to defend those who are doping)
He looked old for an 18 year old when he burst onto the scene.
People have been caught in the lower levels, which suggests people are doping in the higher levels, and if anyone is doping nadal fits the bill.
Drug tests are infrequent and very easy to get around in tennis

nadal turned pro and burst on to the scene at 15 when he beat federer at key biscayne that year--but yeah he looked pretty mature then too (except that in real life, he is really nowhere near as big and beefy as he looks on tv).

as i said in that other thread, players in the top 20 have been busted too, and agassi had rumors swirling around him forever (and since he admitted to being a meth-head, anything is possible).

tennis operates much differently than cycling, and while i would not put it past the ATP to do gentleman's agreements when positives are uncovered from stars' samples (you know, let them know they know and try to put the fear of god into them that if it happens again they will not hesitate to expose them); there is no omerta in tennis among the players. these guys are not friends and do not share an esprit d'corp. if roddick found out that federer was doping when feds beat him in the fifth set last year in the wimbledon final, i have no doubt rodick would beat the crap out of him in the locker room and disparage him in every interview from then on out. however, i don't think th ATP would protect anyone other than say federer, nadal, roddick, or murray--when daveydenko was 4th in the world they had no problem letting the world know he was being investigated for match fixing--which in tennis is a way bigger sin than doping: doping may give a slight edge, endurance-wise and mostly on clay courts, but match fixing goes to the heart of the game.

some of us think that the ATP gave nadal the little drug talk last year and that was why he developed a mysterious knee ailment that ruined the later half of his 2009 and beginning of his 2010. and they have him on short leash this year: he was fined for coaching during wimbeldon and called for time, which almost never happens to the stars.

 

[sars1981]

As far as I can tell there is no evidence against Nadal at all.

Having said that, I do believe he dopes.

1 he's Spanish.
2 he hits the ball so ridiculously hard
3 muscle-bound
4 complains about "over-testing"

I do not care tho cause I really like him. Every time he plays I find myself thinking "I hope he's doped up good".

Go Nadal!

 

[craig1985]

As I've said a thousand times, from what I know, Nadal, and along with Federer and Henin are all big time chargers.

 

[jwbowman]

"there is no omerta in tennis among the players. these guys are not friends and do not share an esprit d'corp. if roddick found out that federer was doping when feds beat him in the fifth set last year in the wimbledon final, i have no doubt rodick would beat the crap out of him in the locker room and disparage him in every interview from then on out."

There is a good reason for this: Teams. Unless they play doubles together, Roddick and Federer will never be teammates. Andreas Kloden and Lance Armstrong can be rivals in 2004 ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dsv_7o3mQno ) (If you missed this, it is worth watching. My wife was in another room and she thought that I was having a heart attack) and teammates in 2010. Every rider is a potential future ally.

 

[scribe]

Huh? Omertà is held together by the fact that everyone is doing it (or maybe not), no one knows what the others are doing exactly, and there is no way to prove it that wouldn't lead to you yourself being convicted or ostricized

 

[The Hitch]

. Andreas Kloden and Lance Armstrong can be rivals in 2004 ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dsv_7o3mQno ) (If you missed this, it is worth watching. My wife was in another room and she thought that I was having a heart attack) and teammates in 2010..

As i recall that was the descent from the col de la madeline. We have this stage this year.

 

[sars1981]

As I've said a thousand times, from what I know, Nadal, and along with Federer and Henin are all big time chargers.

Care to share your insights?

I cant imagine why Federer would need to dope. His game is built on pure skill.

 

[Señor_Contador]

[...]i wouldn't bet against rafa doping. he's conveniently taking 6 weeks off to make sure he is "super fit" for the US open.

I guess his knees, which he's had surgery on for the past 3 years, have nothing to do with it.



I mean... noone here is in a position to say, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Rafael does not dope, but he was neither named in Operación Puerto nor ever tested positive.

His uncle, Miguel Angel Nadal, used to play for Barcelona and later Mayorca, was most likely the one named in the report, as one or two players from that Barcelona team tested positive for nandrolone at one point or another (including Guardiola, who is now the coach).

 

[Señor_Contador]

[...]some of us think that the ATP gave nadal the little drug talk last year and that was why he developed a mysterious knee ailment that ruined the later half of his 2009 and beginning of his 2010. and they have him on short leash this year: he was fined for coaching during wimbeldon and called for time, which almost never happens to the stars.

Riiiiight. And the ATP would shoot itself on the foot by taking the other half of the cash-cow duet that was keeping tenis alive at the time (the other half being Federer).

I guess the fact that there are clinical reports showing a knee ligament problem has nothing to do with it either. It's all made up.

 

[Señor_Contador]

As far as I can tell there is no evidence against Nadal at all.

Having said that, I do believe he dopes.

1 he's Spanish.[...]

Oleeeeee!

Spreading a little demagogy I see.

 

[moi123]

Was he a Fuentes client? What is the origin of all these OP rumors?

Who wasn't?

 

[hrotha]

His uncle, Miguel Angel Nadal, used to play for Barcelona and later Mayorca, was most likely the one named in the report, as one or two players from that Barcelona team tested positive for nandrolone at one point or another (including Guardiola, who is now the coach).

Are you serious? You think it's more likely that it was someone who retired in 2005 at 39, and who played a sport and a position where performance enhancing drugs don't give that much of a boost compared to tennis? That's more likely than the hypothesis that it was one of the most physical players in the ATP, who was just beginning to dominate the sport?

Oleeeeee!

Spreading a little demagogy I see.

I can't really blame him. Spain brings it on herself with this kind of doping denial and reluctance to go after big-name alleged cheats.

 

[doublestandard]

Having followed Rafa's career in detail for over 5 years I can positively say you tools know nothing about Rafa!!

You are making complete fools of yourselves about Rafa. And I don't care to take the time to educate the ignorant.

Your misinformation about Rafa is almost making me doubt anything I read in here about cycling's drug problem.

If this complete BS about Rafa is any indication about how little you really know about cycling's drug history then maybe I should stop reading The Clinic.

Why don't you just stick with the sport you think you know so much about?

 

[The Hitch]

Are you serious? You think it's more likely that it was someone who retired in 2005 at 39?

Good point, i cant see someone who retired in 2005 at 39 being the doper.

and who played a sport and a position where performance enhancing drugs don't give that much of a boost compared to tennis? That

What??? PED's are far far far more helpful in football. Speed and strenght are probably the most important qualities in football, more important these days than skill, and endurance is also an important quality. In tennis on the other hand, racket control and skill are the main qualities and speed and strenght only come into play when players are similar in skill and racket control.

 

[R.0.t.O]

It's hilarious to read tennis fans talking about how Nadal can't possibly have doped; cycling was here in about 1993. Every tennis commentator talks regularly about how Nadal, Federer and a few others have revolutionised tennis with their ability to keep the intensity of matches up into the 4th and 5th sets in ways that never used to happen; perhaps they go look around the courts before the tournaments or spin the balls at a higher rate. Murray went in a few months from dying half way through the 3rd or 4th set to being a 5 set superhero; probably he ate some rice cakes. But apparently we know nothing about tennis, what good could doping possibly do in a sport where you're running around and hitting stuff for hours and hours at a time for several days back-to-back?

 

[hrotha]

What??? PED's are far far far more helpful in football. Speed and strenght are probably the most important qualities in football, more important these days than skill, and endurance is also an important quality. In tennis on the other hand, racket control and skill are the main qualities and speed and strenght only come into play when players are similar in skill and racket control.

Disagree. Even in tennis, you can only put your racket control to good use if you reach the ball comfortably. For that, you need to remain fast throughout the whole game. Endurance and speed. Hmm.

 

[moi123]

Having followed Rafa's career in detail for over 5 years I can positively say you tools know nothing about Rafa!!

You are making complete fools of yourselves about Rafa. And I don't care to take the time to educate the ignorant.

Your misinformation about Rafa is almost making me doubt anything I read in here about cycling's drug problem.

If this complete BS about Rafa is any indication about how little you really know about cycling's drug history then maybe I should stop reading The Clinic.

Why don't you just stick with the sport you think you know so much about?

I completely agree with you!

 

[Mellow Velo]

Uuumm, now let me see.
First name out of the OP hat, Nadal.
The ATP said: "Drugs? we have no stinkeen drugs in tennis.........go away, so they did.
Loss of form in 2006 (injury of course)
Biggest critic of the "on demand" drug test? Now let me think.
5th set superman.

Other than that, clean as a whistle.

 

[bianchigirl]

Nadal was categorically on the list of OP names submitted to the UCI.

As for the knees, it's common knowledge in cycling that knee injuries stem from too much cortisone - never heard the rumours around Hinault & Fignon? Read Graham Watson's book on the TdF

 

[The Hitch]

Disagree. Even in tennis, you can only put your racket control to good use if you reach the ball comfortably. For that, you need to remain fast throughout the whole game. Endurance and speed. Hmm.

What? They stand in the centre of a 10m wide court and unleash powerful and accuratre shots with spin, and moving a few metres to the left or right when need be. The ammount of accuracy power and spin in these shots is what decides whether you win or lose.

Aticipation, which they learn over the yearsm is far more important than speed and the best players dictate play, not allowing their opponent to trouble them. Doping increases your speed by fractions of a second. This wouldnt really help that much in tennis. A lot of the best players today are over 2 metres tall. They arent fast at all. They dont need to be, speed in tennis is a minor factor. It helps you get a few points, perhaps a few important ones, but over the course of the much if your sprinting to every ball you are not going to win.

 

[sars1981]

Uuumm, now let me see.
First name out of the OP hat, Nadal.
The ATP said: "Drugs? we have no stinkeen drugs in tennis.........go away, so they did.
Loss of form in 2006 (injury of course)
Biggest critic of the "on demand" drug test? Now let me think.
5th set superman.

Other than that, clean as a whistle.

To me the "5th set superman" thing is less indicative of doping than his sheer power. It's a sight to behold just how hard Rafa hit's the ball. He will have men who are 3 inches taller than him and themselves "big hitter" retreating behind the baseline. He obviously has amazing explosive power in his racket swing.