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Raise your hand if you're tired of the whole Astana affair

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Aug 13, 2009
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jpmcmahonjr said:
Now did the hog say that? Or was it another one of Astana's great and trusty controlers suchas maybe: Proskurin.

That is what I thought. Glad you linked the article in which Johan denies this taking place. But, hey believe what you want. I will go with the guy tht fought his A$$ off to get the riders paid because Proskurin and his Kazy Gangsta's would pony up the money.

Given The Hog's history of lies, strong ties to the UCI, and childish revenge obsessions I think we can all agree that it is very likely that he made the threat and has done everything he can to follow through with it.
 
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Race Radio said:
Given The Hog's history of lies, strong ties to the UCI, and childish revenge obsessions I think we can all agree that it is very likely that he made the threat and has done everything he can to follow through with it.

for what purpose.. i fail to see what he has to gain from it...
if he wants AC to fail the best thing to do is keep him at astana...
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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richwagmn said:
This is silly. Give them a license or don't. But to have this continue to drag on is unfair to all those either currently or potentially employed by Astana. It's already late in the year and the UCI continues to **** around. Sad.

Yes - I raised my hand.
There is no doubt that Astana - or more correctly the Kazakhstan Cycling Fed - have been the authors of their own problems and that the UCI are correct to seek every guarantee. But ultimately the KCF either are or not complying with the agreed rules - at this stage they should be in or out.

I wonder what the stakeholders of BBox Telecom make of it all?
 
Aug 13, 2009
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dimspace said:
for what purpose.. i fail to see what he has to gain from it...
i

Revenge. He wants to make Astana and AC's season as difficult as possible.

This is the guy who poured Floyd's blood bag down the toilet when he found out he was moving to Phonak. The Hog is famous for going out of his way for a petty grudge.
 
Jun 18, 2009
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dimspace said:
for what purpose.. i fail to see what he has to gain from it...
if he wants AC to fail the best thing to do is keep him at astana...

Yea, I think the UCI is fully capable of effin this up without the help of JB. I have no idea which regulations they do follow as their decisions seem arbitrary much of the time. I think their lawyers are busily finding some way to get rid of Astana.

I don't think this process is hurting AC much. I'm sure if he's free, he lands a contract easily. However, it's gonna be hard to get other riders to join with this cloud of doubt hanging over the team. And let's not forget all the other people who support a cycling team not knowing what their future will be.

Again, it's shameful in my opinion. But the UCI has shown little regard for the well being of the sport is itself and I'm not surprised.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Dr. Maserati said:
Yes - I raised my hand.
There is no doubt that Astana - or more correctly the Kazakhstan Cycling Fed - have been the authors of their own problems and that the UCI are correct to seek every guarantee. But ultimately the KCF either are or not complying with the agreed rules - at this stage they should be in or out.

I wonder what the stakeholders of BBox Telecom make of it all?

I am all for guarantee's however it is clear the UCI is going out of it way to screw with Astana as much as possible. Demanding that they come up with $22 million in cash overnight, after they had already deposited close to $4 million, is absurd.
 

Polish

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Mar 11, 2009
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Generallisimo Francisco Franco is still dead

Astana is taking longer to die than Generallisimo Francisco Franco for crying out loud.

Remember prior to this years Tour, when Astana was not paying salaries, and the talk of finding another sponsor to step in at the last minute?

It is no wonder Lance and Johan made plans to jump ship back then - smart!
And Astana has been a dead-team-walking ever since.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNWFCWYVZto
.
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.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Race Radio said:
I am all for guarantee's however it is clear the UCI is going out of it way to screw with Astana as much as possible. Demanding that they come up with $22 million in cash overnight, after they had already deposited close to $4 million, is absurd.

Yes - I agree, we could see that with the 'new' rule put in place in July so that if a team (ie Astana) had not all its ducks in a row then team members who had valid contracts could look for new team.
This is the same time frame when Astana were arguing with JB- the only surprise is that Astana are still in the picture at all.

Of course my point was that BBox Telecom who have never had any issue, finacial, ethical etc were refused a licence - another farce by the UCI.
 
Jul 27, 2009
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Race Radio said:
Given The Hog's history of lies, strong ties to the UCI, and childish revenge obsessions I think we can all agree that it is very likely that he made the threat and has done everything he can to follow through with it.

And, given Kazy track record, "I think we can all agree" ( this line is laughable) that if you are putting your faith here. I would search for some better guidance from another place.

I don't believe for a second that JB or LA want Contador anywhere but Astana at this point. We obviously can't all agree. LOL
 
dimspace said:
for what purpose.. i fail to see what he has to gain from it...
if he wants AC to fail the best thing to do is keep him at astana...

The Khazaks have A LOT of money. If the license is straightened out and Contador stays they will buy a team for him, they want to win the tour again and by now I bet they want to give Armstrong and Bruyneel the beat down just as much as those two want to do it to Contador.
If Armstrong and Bruyneel can get UCI to string the whole thing out long enough it will be that much harder for Contador to find himself in a team that will help him. Only problem is, as several people have pointed out AC may not require that much help.
 
Jul 4, 2009
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Hands up for sure.

I also agree with the posters who say the best way to keep AC out of the picture is the leave him with Astana. He can go anywhere if Astana does not get a pro tour license. Heck, I would not put it past him to be getting the UCI to put these new restrictions on Astana. There are many teams that would be willing to bring him on as a team leader.
 
Both my hands are raised, as are my daughter's. This is beyond ridiciulous. The demand for a full year's salary is extra-ordinary . . . no one would (or reasonably could) disagree with it. I'm doubtful that they can come up with the funds by tomorrow. And I don't so much as worry about what happens to AC, I worry more about the Novals, Navarros and the slew of Kazakh riders stuck in the bind.

This new obligation could have been stated awhile ago, during one of the many meetings the UCI has had with the KCF. Bringing this up at the 11th hour is just pure BS.

And for those of you searching for a reason why JB would do everything they could to screw Astana look at it like this, they screwed him bringing back Vino. But, and I think this is an interesting perspective, it could also be about getting back to AC's good graces. He gets AC FREE. A stretch I know, but it has a certain amount of logic to it.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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richwagmn said:
This is silly. Give them a license or don't. But to have this continue to drag on is unfair to all those either currently or potentially employed by Astana. It's already late in the year and the UCI continues to **** around. Sad.

1. If they get a license, they've got Vino and Berto and are a threat in any big race. Whatever is going on in the background they know the deadlines and are taking all the time they're allowed.

2. If they don't and the team explodes, there are lots of other teams to absorb the viable riders and drop their own baggage. The pro cycling season isn't a zero-sum roster game by any stretch.

3. Name the last day on which the UCI didn't somehow **** around in a manner worth kvetching about.

None of this matters for months. What matters right now is calculating how many extra miles I need to clock Friday to work off the turkey gravy I'm going to splash all over the leftover biscuits on Thursday night.
 
Jul 22, 2009
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Hugh Januss said:
The Khazaks are a bunch of oil money gangsters who staged the whole lack of money for payroll thing in an effort to force Bruyneel out and Vino back in his team. I find it funny to see them hoist on their own spear now.
I also get a kick out of Bruyneel adressing the "rumors" that he has anything to do with Astana's problems now. Gotta call BS on that one.
Lance is I am certain the real reason UCI are jerking Astana around now, he is playing (and paying) his only chance to win Tour 2010 for all it is worth. I wonder what he has donated money for now? The longer this whole process takes the worse it will be for Contador. Even he will have a hard time finding a team capable of supporting him in July, if and when something comes up at the last moment in December to scuttle Astana's Pro Tour license.
Hopefully when that happens the Khazak gangsters go after the UCI with a vengeance and chase McQuaid out once and for all with a $hit steam of lawsuits.

I think the Khazaks have gone on an international spending spree on credit which they expect to pay when they win the oil lottery jackpot; they've already had to abandon a number of projects for lack of promised funds that were due. There is so much corruption there that I think it is only reasonable to have them put the money on the barrelhead. What happened at the Giro was an embarassment, and shouldn't be repeated.
 
Jul 4, 2009
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derailleur said:
1. If they get a license, they've got Vino and Berto and are a threat in any big race. Whatever is going on in the background they know the deadlines and are taking all the time they're allowed.

Vino is more of a threat to AC than LA could every be. Vino is the reason why there is a team Astana. Vino in my opinion will force Astana down the Festina route. AC needs to find a way to get of this last year. No matter what in my opinion Astana will not get a license for next year.
 
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jpmcmahonjr said:
And, given Kazy track record, "I think we can all agree" ( this line is laughable) that if you are putting your faith here. I would search for some better guidance from another place.

I don't believe for a second that JB or LA want Contador anywhere but Astana at this point. We obviously can't all agree. LOL

1) you're right, saying "i think we can all agree" is such a lame statement and very laughable.. if I ever say it (other than a quote) i promise to leave the forum forever in shame

2) you're right, Contador at Astana is the best thing for LA/JB, there is no need to sabotage Astana because that's better for AC. If anything, i'd be more concerned if Lance offers up the 22mill to keep them.

AC on Caisse/Garmin/QuickStep = worse for LA/JB, better for AC. If LA/JB were to conspire against AC, it would be best he stay at Astana, and then they lobby/pay the **** out of ASO to un-invite them at the last minute, which is why I think the JB/LA conspiracy of conspiring against Astana a bit silly. If they were to be jerks, they would play games with the ASO (note: i'm not saying they should, that would be a joke, but it would be a better 'lets all sabotage AC' strategy)

-----

This whole debarcle is a bit of a joke. Originally, I wanted Astana gone. Mainly due to Vino coming back, and I wanted AC on a dedicated team. But with respect to them, they've paid their dues and I've changed my mind

They've garaunteed the money, they've hired new riders and new staff, got new sponsors, replaced the DS and management. They've done everything that's been asked of them.

Whats wrong with the UCI? Perhaps its an image thing, but other than Vino coming back, Astana 2010 is a better face for cycling than Astana 2007, that's for sure...
 
Aug 12, 2009
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Guys the line of thinking that LA and Bruyneel want Contador at Astana is not entirely accurate. He'll get Caisse support regardless as the Spaniards stick together. If he is on Astana that is two squads effectively working for the one rider. It is better if Astana is removed entirely. LA and Bruyneel know they can't beat Contador. It will be harder with two teams who will support the guy, better with one.
 
Jul 27, 2009
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Galic Ho said:
Guys the line of thinking that LA and Bruyneel want Contador at Astana is not entirely accurate. He'll get Caisse support regardless as the Spaniards stick together. If he is on Astana that is two squads effectively working for the one rider. It is better if Astana is removed entirely. LA and Bruyneel know they can't beat Contador. It will be harder with two teams who will support the guy, better with one.

So you believe that Caisse will completely throw it's hat towards Bertie? In doing so are they serving their own team and sponsors who would expect the efforts to go towards a TDF contender for themselves? Just wondering. Caisse is not without top level talent by any means. I highly doubt we would see two teams against one in this regard. Not saying they won't help in some ways, but they will not sacrafice the team for Astana. No way no how.
 
jpmcmahonjr said:
So you believe that Caisse will completely throw it's hat towards Bertie? In doing so are they serving their own team and sponsors who would expect the efforts to go towards a TDF contender for themselves? Just wondering. Caisse is not without top level talent by any means. I highly doubt we would see two teams against one in this regard. Not saying they won't help in some ways, but they will not sacrafice the team for Astana. No way no how.

Not a question of sacrificing, more like a willing collaboration whenever any move seems to assist the common good, and also scores points for the following years silly season. So maybe more like 1 1/2 teams against 1.
 
Jul 28, 2009
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Mountain Goat said:
1) you're right, saying "i think we can all agree" is such a lame statement and very laughable.. if I ever say it (other than a quote) i promise to leave the forum forever in shame.
I think we can all agree that although you've been posting on the forum a lot, you haven't been paying much attention to other posts.

Cryptically yours,
rata :D
 
Jul 27, 2009
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Hugh Januss said:
Not a question of sacrificing, more like a willing collaboration whenever any move seems to assist the common good, and also scores points for the following years silly season. So maybe more like 1 1/2 teams against 1.

And, you don't possibly see BMC doing the same towards TRS? Or maybe some others that see AC as the favorite?

For TRS, Bertie at Astana is best case scenario. Especially with the team they have assembled so far and can still at this date. Which isn't' much.
 
If we get another "requirement" and deadline, today, I think I'll start to believe in the conspiracy theory.
December, next week. Training camps just around the corner and the race season down under, less than two months away.
By keeping Astana in limbo, for as long as possible, it makes it nigh impossible for them to make decent signings etc.

They will be forced to try and kidnap contracted riders and I'll bet, when they do, Pat Mc will step in, once again demonstrating how lopsided his playing field is.

The conspiracy theory also nicely explains why the Shack have signed so many Astana riders, even including the odd Kazakh.

Strip their cupboard bare and stop them from going shopping. Then, for TRS, Bertie at Astana is certainly best case scenario.

Only a wacky theory, I know.
Hope the UCI put it to bed, today.
 
May 6, 2009
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I feel sorry towards the lesser known riders on Astana, who have been stuck in the middle of something that was not their own doing (other then signing the contract). I guess Noval and Jesus Hernandez who are mates with Contador will get a gig no matter where Contador goes. AFAIK anyway, it was Contador who got Hernandez onto Astana.

Byt yeah, it has become a farce.
 

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