Ramifications of Lance Conviction

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Oct 4, 2011
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Square-pedaller said:
I've never really understood what Livestrong does for cancer sufferers. As far as I know it has never put money into research on cancer. At one stage it was touting itself as a source of information, but there's tons of free information on the internet.
Its a muddied water and I tend to agree with you. While awareness is needed, with the amounts of money pouring in to Livestrong they could do so much more. However I am a sceptic and I would not give my money to them, I see it as a business brand that has one aim at its heart. To make its founders rich. Otherwise all the money apart from normal day to day running expenses.....not huge salaries etc...would be going where its meant to. Thats not happening and people benefitting from others life threatening illness makes me sick to the stomach. Its a brand nothing more.

So on that, the question of will it suffer if lance goes down. I hope so, in the hope that these people cannot gain from peoples misfortune any longer. Someone needs to be open about what they are doing.
If all the money was going where it should I wouldnt be so vehement, but it isnt, let a real charity take up the work, let someone promote it without amassing a personal fortune, it can be done but greed dictates is wont be.

Rant over.
 
Apr 8, 2010
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noddy69 said:
... While awareness is needed ...
And I've never understood what 'cancer awareness' is, and why it needs raising. Surely almost everyone has first hand experience of cancer among friends or family?

Very little of what comes out of Livestrong makes much sense to me. e.g. 'Removing the stigma of cancer'. As a European, I have never come across cancer imposing a stigma. Sympathy yes. Stigma no. Is this something peculiarly American based on some people not being able to afford treatment? If so, the problem is not 'awareness'.
 
Jun 13, 2012
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One other ramification is it should stop any political ambitions in their tracks. Sounds obvious now but a couple of years ago it was a frightening proposition.
 
Oct 30, 2010
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An excellent OP asking some interesting questions about the future of cycling, but like all threads it all becomes a Livestrong slagging match.

I think cycling will not change significantly. Will the UCI be disbanded or altered? Unlikely. Will sponsors run from the sport? Again, unlikely (look at how Sky are benefitting from being the dominant team).

I think the unpalatable fact is that a Lance conviction will not have a siesmic effect on cycling, nor will the sport become ANY cleaner as a result. There isn't the will to see that happen, and even if it was cleaner, all dominant teams will have to prove they are clean like everyoneon this forum is asking Sky to do, but they won't do that - so the cynicism will continue.

Not quite WWF, but not 100% believable either. As it is at the minute, in fact.
 
May 26, 2010
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The way the sport is currently being run , if the fall of Armstrong cause widespread destruction, Good. Hopefully people will learn something from it and prevent it from happening again. And better if it spreads to other sports and they clean up the houses the better for society.

Burn it down if that is what is takes so the new growth can grow and hopefully the likes of McQuaid, Bruyneel, Saiz, et al will never be let near the sport again.
 
Oct 4, 2011
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Markyboyzx6r said:
An excellent OP asking some interesting questions about the future of cycling, but like all threads it all becomes a Livestrong slagging match.

I think cycling will not change significantly. Will the UCI be disbanded or altered? Unlikely. Will sponsors run from the sport? Again, unlikely (look at how Sky are benefitting from being the dominant team).

I think the unpalatable fact is that a Lance conviction will not have a siesmic effect on cycling, nor will the sport become ANY cleaner as a result. There isn't the will to see that happen, and even if it was cleaner, all dominant teams will have to prove they are clean like everyoneon this forum is asking Sky to do, but they won't do that - so the cynicism will continue.

Not quite WWF, but not 100% believable either. As it is at the minute, in fact.
The OP mentioned Livestrong, and as far as I am concerned he got an answer from me on it. If a poster brings it up people have a right to answer on something they feel strongly about.
As far as cyclings future goes this case is needed for any future credibility. If this fails then the credibility of cycling will be at an all time low. Yet people forget quickly. The 100ms is one example. Look at the popularity because of Usain bolt, yet it is littered with people cheating over the years. Some credibility is gained however in catching high profile cases.Yet it is really down to short memories. People will continue to watch and sponsors will continue to invest, even if in the short term there is a drop off it will benefit in the longer term.
The sports hierarchy needs a reshuffle. Hopefully the case will start the ball rolling, but the old boys club will be hard to shift. A new system is needed, now could be the time to push for it, but all the teams and the public need to want it to happen, and its unfortunate that it doesnt seem likely with what we are getting from the tour.
 
Apr 8, 2010
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Markyboyzx6r said:
... but like all threads it all becomes a Livestrong slagging match...
Was that aimed at me?
This thread is about the fallout from LA's fall from grace. The OP specifically mentions effects oustide cycling and states "Livestrong does help many people". It seems to me perfectly legitimate and on-topic to question that.
 
Oct 4, 2011
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Square-pedaller said:
Was that aimed at me?
This thread is about the fallout from LA's fall from grace. The OP specifically mentions effects oustide cycling and states "Livestrong does help many people". It seems to me perfectly legitimate and on-topic to question that.
Good isnt it, he says its an excellent opening post, then when you answer part of it that he doesnt like he has a go. Know where my money is on who he is a fan of.
 
Apr 8, 2010
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noddy69 said:
Good isnt it, he says its an excellent opening post, then when you answer part of it that he doesnt like he has a go. Know where my money is on who he is a fan of.
I'm not too worried who he's a fan of :)

I am genuinely interested, however, to know what Livestrong actually does in terms of helping cancer sufferers.
 
BigPhil3 said:
Oh I completely agree. Like I said to someone else a few posts up, if I don't put a disclaimer, than anything slightly not anti Lance turns me into a huge Lance fan.

I honestly don't care what happens to Lance and I'm not saying he doesn't need to be punished in some way, I just feel that there are going to be some unintended consequences when all of this is over.
Haters will be the only winners here in a sick sort of way.
Cheating will continue as it has for at least the last 4 millennium - as long as the sun rises in the east and set in the west.
Those who currently benefit from the LA philanthropic efforts and those who admire LA will take it up the a-- the hardest. Business's depending on LA's brand will take a hit. Management will take a small hit, the working stiffs will take a big hit.
As far as the general public, the negative publicity surrounding this will delegitimize racing as a "real" sport and prop it up next to wrestling. Intelligent sponsors with tall cotton will head for the door.

Lance is a tough SOB and will minimize the damages as best he can and move onward and upward. The ultimate coup de grace for the haters would be to physically and psychologically destroy him. He realizes he's done more good than bad in the world so that's one bone the haters will never get to enjoy and will go to their graves lusting for.
 
May 7, 2009
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Square-pedaller said:
I've never really understood what Livestrong does for cancer sufferers. As far as I know it has never put money into research on cancer. At one stage it was touting itself as a source of information, but there's tons of free information on the internet.
They do offer some stuff by mail, a big binder if I remember, lots of printed material. I've read that they don't fund actual research anymore. I can tell you from being with a cancer sufferer that it's the doctors and nurses who make a big positive difference, and also the researchers who are not in the public eye. Roche is working on some cancer drugs that helped the person I knew. He had a nike Livestrong T-shirt that said "100% possible". It gave false hope. In actuality, Livestrong never REALLY helped.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Cycling will not suffer. It will improve with those dirtbags out of the sport.

Who will suffer?

The crooks who enabled the growth the myth
The media who ignored the obvious
The girls at the Yellow rose who work on tips
The groupies
The various hangers on who now have to get a real job
Ferrari
 
SpeedWay said:
Haters will be the only winners here in a sick sort of way.
Cheating will continue as it has for at least the last 4 millennium - as long as the sun rises in the east and set in the west.
Those who currently benefit from the LA philanthropic efforts and those who admire LA will take it up the a-- the hardest. Business's depending on LA's brand will take a hit. Management will take a small hit, the working stiffs will take a big hit.
As far as the general public, the negative publicity surrounding this will delegitimize racing as a "real" sport and prop it up next to wrestling. Intelligent sponsors with tall cotton will head for the door.

Lance is a tough SOB and will minimize the damages as best he can and move onward and upward. The ultimate coup de grace for the haters would be to physically and psychologically destroy him. He realizes he's done more good than bad in the world so that's one bone the haters will never get to enjoy and will go to their graves lusting for.
Nice to see you are still hanging on to your slavish dedication to a man whom mountains of evidence seems to show is just no dam good.:rolleyes:
 
Jun 28, 2009
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Jan Ullrich the 4 time Tour de France champion has a strange ring to it. Especially, considering the way he went out. If Lance gets stripped of his titles, I hope the sport does not award a champion for those 7 years. There is no reason to glorify people that were doing the same stuff.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Clemson Cycling said:
Jan Ullrich the 4 time Tour de France champion has a strange ring to it. Especially, considering the way he went out. If Lance gets stripped of his titles, I hope the sport does not award a champion for those 7 years. There is no reason to glorify people that were doing the same stuff.
Same stuff? Ullrich paid off the UCI?
 
May 19, 2012
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I'm not sure Ullrich would even want it.

Race Radio said:
Same stuff? Ullrich paid off the UCI?
He seems to have moved on and his "victories" would probably only be mocked by the German press.
 
May 19, 2012
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BigPhil3 said:
Oh I completely agree. Like I said to someone else a few posts up, if I don't put a disclaimer, than anything slightly not anti Lance turns me into a huge Lance fan.

I honestly don't care what happens to Lance and I'm not saying he doesn't need to be punished in some way, I just feel that there are going to be some unintended consequences when all of this is over.
It's always better to know the truth, always.

I think Armstrong is a terrible bully, I don't like him, but I do have sympathy for him just like I have sympathy for any bully who eventually gets his comeuppance. He still effed over a lot of people though and deserves a public humiliation.

Unless he's an absolute, complete, sociopath (which is possible) the next 5 years of his life is going to be very difficult, when he comes to the realization most people know he's a fraud.

It just shows how sick he is that he's surrounded himself with fawning, parasitic, uncritical sychophants. Who the heck would want that?

Aren't your friends the ones who call you an a-hole when you step out of line? Don't you want to be challenged on your bs?

As for the bike business, maybe they will pull their heads out of their a$ses and start focusing on getting the masses out on bicycles and focus on broad based advocacy rather than the anorexic freaks at the top of the activity. If the base is expanded, and the sport is kept in proper context at the highest levels, everyone benefits.
 
Deagol said:
Hopefully they will leave the "victories" unassigned after this.
They gave Landis' win away. Same with Contador's. I don't see that Armstrong's should be treated any different.

Fanboys are looking for ways that Armstrong can be stripped but still counted as the winner.
 
May 7, 2009
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BroDeal said:
They gave Landis' win away. Same with Contador's. I don't see that Armstrong's should be treated any different.

Fanboys are looking for ways that Armstrong can be stripped but still counted as the winner.
You may be right. But, one difference I see is that the 2 situations you mention had second place guys who were not under sanction (Schleck & Pereiro). In Lance's case, the number 2 guy for much of it is already a scapegoat, right?

Either way, Lance should be stripped
 
Deagol said:
You may be right. But, one difference I see is that the 2 situations you mention had second place guys who were not under sanction (Schleck & Pereiro). In Lance's case, the number 2 guy for much of it is already a scapegoat, right?

Either way, Lance should be stripped
Ullrich (and Basso) never tested positive at the Tour. The fact that he turned to the dark side at the very end of his career should not be used to deny him his rightful and hard earned victories before 2005. Ulle, four time winner. Has a good ring to it.

:)
 
Jun 28, 2009
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BroDeal said:
Ullrich (and Basso) never tested positive at the Tour. The fact that he turned to the dark side at the very end of his career should not be used to deny him his rightful and hard earned victories before 2005. Ulle, four time winner. Has a good ring to it.

:)
hahahahahah. Armstrong technically never tested positive at the Tour either. According to the UCI anyway
 
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