Rank the last ten editions of the Tour de France

[burning]

Re:

Such valley; very train; much boring

I am pretty sure that Sky would train the hell out of this stage with the current contenders.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Such valley; very train; much boring

I am pretty sure that Sky would train the hell out of this stage with the current contenders.

In any event, it's a stage design which would obviously never be considered by the Tour organisers for a whole load of organisational and practical reasons. We know what kind of stages they habitually use in the Pyrenees and the Alps, and it's nothing like that profile. So let's not let the ideas from the Fantasy Race Thread cloud the cold reality here.

 

[Red Rick]

From the stage design thread

Oh wait

 

[GuyIncognito]

Re:

From the stage design thread

Oh wait

Images wouldn't show up in posts on this forum. I spent 10 minutes going through every browser extension until I found what caused it.

You posted this less than 60 seconds later and I saw it before you edited it.
Spent another 10 minutes until I realized you posted a pixel. I hate you.

(since mods love to take my flippant posts seriously: yes, I'm joking as always)

 

[DFA123]

Re:

From the stage design thread

Oh wait

Yep, that's exactly the point, why the Pyrenees is so great. You very rarely get stages like that in the French Alps in GTs. The hard climbs that the organisers use most regularly in recent years in the Pyrenees there enable stage designs like that. The hard climbs that are most commonly used in the Alps generally don't.

Of course you could make some routes in the Alps like that, but they are not the towns bidding for the race, and not the climbs that are most associated with the Tour. So the reality, for the forseeable future, is that the Pyrenees provide the better stages.

The increasing dullness of Tours in recent years has definitely coincided with the Alps being the more prominent mountains in the race.

 

[Gigs_98]

Actually most of the climbs Netserk used are quite commonly used by the tour as well and the finish in Bourg Saint Maurice isn't that far fetched as well.
I get what you mean though, but I simply don't think the percentage of mountain stages with valleys before the last climb is much higher in the alps than in the Pyrenees. For example there are pyrenees stages like this, this, this or this. In many of these cases the valley is false flat or relatively short but at least definitely nothing which motivates attackers. Meanwhile there were alpine mountain stages like this, this or this where you have basically 0 flat kilometers between the last two climbs.

 

[Brullnux]

Finhaut-Emosson was a poor design, it was more one two-step climb than two separate climbs. And Allos isn't hard enough to create differences, so I like to avoid it and I'd rather ASO don't go there too often as it's quite easy to go train on them

 

[Red Rick]

The problem is with the climbs the ASO crams into the Alps every single time.

I want to see Alp d'Huez-Sarenne-Les Deux Alps.

 

[Netserk]

Or Glandon-Vaujany in the same area.

 

[cantpedal]

2011 needs to be dropped from the list. any GT the Tommy Voekler can lead for 8 or 9 stages and finish 4th should say enough about the strength of that field.

That being said I cant say i disliked any of them and have watched as much was available in the US of the Tours since the mid 80's.

 

[Ruby United]

2011 needs to be dropped from the list. any GT the Tommy Voekler can lead for 8 or 9 stages and finish 4th should say enough about the strength of that field.

That being said I cant say i disliked any of them and have watched as much was available in the US of the Tours since the mid 80's.

It is much more about how the race is raced than the parcours (except when the route is totally abhorrent like this year)
Watching Voeckler hang onto his MJ jersey by seconds to Schleck on that one stage (was it to Galibier? - I can't quite remember), pushing himself to places only Jens Voigt can go.... It is one of my favourite cycling moments.

 

[Tonton]

I can't believe that '11 leads the poll. When I have knee pains, usually it's about to rain. When Europcar riders have knee pains, it's a sign that they're going to over-perform. Ninja Voeckler, from zero to hero...Rigoberto Evans wins it all...ahead of Bardet 1 and Bardet 2. Meh...

 

[burning]

2011 needs to be dropped from the list. any GT the Tommy Voekler can lead for 8 or 9 stages and finish 4th should say enough about the strength of that field.

That being said I cant say i disliked any of them and have watched as much was available in the US of the Tours since the mid 80's.

It is much more about how the race is raced than the parcours (except when the route is totally abhorrent like this year)
Watching Voeckler hang onto his MJ jersey by seconds to Schleck on that one stage (was it to Galibier? - I can't quite remember), pushing himself to places only Jens Voigt can go.... It is one of my favourite cycling moments.

LMAO

But he's right. The level in 2011 was very low in the mountains:

Luz Ardiden was 4(!) minutes slower than 2003.
Plateau de Beille was 2 minutes slower than 2007.
Andy was 2 minutes slower than Barguil on Izoard, both were going full gas.
And Alpe was the slowest since 1992. (Ok, there is a good excuse for this)

I can't believe that '11 leads the poll. When I have knee pains, usually it's about to rain. When Europcar riders have knee pains, it's a sign that they're going to over-perform. Ninja Voeckler, from zero to hero...Rigoberto Evans wins it all...ahead of Bardet 1 and Bardet 2. Meh...

Come on, at least Andy tried big time, and he was way way way better than Bardet. Length of Bardet's attacks on uphill must be like 2km in total this year.

Also, I don't see Uran doing what Evans did in Galibier. We already saw this on Giro.

Also, the knee stuff was in 2012 IIRC with Voeckler and Kern.

 

[Summoned]

Went with 2008 because once they got to the Alps, it seemed there were five, maybe even six, who could have ended up in yellow. And the eventual winner won it with an attack at the bottom of an MTF. Certainly not a dream of a Tour, much less an ideal, but best of the ten on offer for me as an objective observer.

Personally, I am a Nibali fan, so I like watching 2014 the most. The one thing I will say in favor of 2014 is that Nibali did not win that one by being better in just one part of the course - he won on Stage 2 in an Ardennes classic parcours, he took serious time in contenders in a cobbles classic parcours in Stage 5, and dominated in the mountains on top of that. He even put in a respectable showing in the time trial. But I think the appeal of 2014 is probably limited primarily to Nibali fans, and perhaps a few who like to see a rider establish himself as clearly the best rider all-around.

But as a viewing experience, I would think that 2008 has more to offer.

 

[Jungle Cycle]

It was hard to follow TdF live in Brazil 10 years ago. Close to impossible to watch the Giro and Vuelta.
So voted 2009 because was one of the first with 1h live coverage and being able to see it instead of reading was awesome to me. To see Contador x Lance live was incredible..
2014 was good, but the one that could've been...

 

[hfer07]

2011 was great- specially the last week. Even 2010 was good despite Andy's incompetence to win it properly. 2012 onward The Tour turned into a plain, tasteless, emotionless procession - barring of course 2014. Like I mentioned somewhere- once SKY started to collect titles, the tour has become unwatchable....

 

[StryderHells]

2011 for me. The GC might not have been top shelf but stages 16,17,18,19 were all great fun, but for me stage 13 over the Aubisque into Lourdes that Hushovd won was a great days racing that I won't be forgetting anytime soon.

 

[Nick C.]

I liked 2008 the best because Sastre won and it was a close run thing towards the last week. 2011 is next. 2009 for Contador throttling Voldemort. 2010 is next. The rest are meh. 2012 had the emergence of Sagan. This year had potential for an upset, but in the end was like an overcast day where it never actually rains. Somewhere in there we had the passing of the sprint king crown from Cav to Kittel. I guess you can rate 2012-2017 based on which sprinter you prefer.

 

[Old&slow]

Re: Re:

2016. Cavendishs 4 wins in a very sprinter unfriendly route was by far the most exciting and best performance of the last 11 tours.

The GC was very weak between 2006 and 2012 with such a week field it is hard to take those tours seriously. There is not a GC contender during those tours that could reasonably contend for a poduim against todays GC field while now it is just the opposite with 20 or so riders that could have easily poduimed in any of those weak rider tours if not won outright. You had riders like Voeckler, Sastre, Perrerrio, Contador, Evans who have never ever before or since contended at the Tour winning or coming clise because of the depleted field. Fine riders in their own right but never tour contenders.

I don't buy this weak GT field stuff honestly. What you're saying basically is Lance and Ullrich would have smoked any of these guys? I don't believe it would have been that simple even. AC Tour 09 or Giro 11 would have been hard for them to handle. Other than those two, I don't see how the winners or contenders (Sastre, Rasmussen, Schleck, Evans, etc.) were weaker than other competition around in the early 00's like Basso, Beloki, Mayo, Vino.


Also, how you can vote 2016 is beyond me. I fell asleep damn near every day watching that.

The evidence is pretty overwhelming the field was exceptionally weak between 2006 and 2012. You had riders who had never contended at the Tour before or after winning or contending.

2006 Perrirro
2007 Rasmussen, Levi and Contador
2008 Sastre his best TDF was with. In his waning years he suddenly comes 5th to Rasmussen in 2007.
2009 Lance at 38 not having ridden in 4 years comes in third in a support role.

2009 Contador he has never contended since. The closest he has been to yellow at the Tour since 2009 was 6 minutes 27 seconds. His tour this year was,arguably his best Tour ever. Coming in just inside 10 minutes to yellow a slightly better than 2015.
He has done well in ITTs but has always lost time in the mountains the last 8 years occassionaly being able to stay with the top 10 on a climb. His best finish on a tour mountain stage the last 8 years when not in a break was 6th in 2013. This year he got an 8th and 10th.

While it's generally wise never to believe anything Contador said with his long history of problems with veracity. But this time he might actually might be telling the truth when he said he was in the best form of his life at this year's Tour. Certainly his ITT indicates he is in great form and his climbing is no worse than average and maybe a bit better than what we have seen from him the last 8 years at the tour.

2009 and 2010 2 Schleck Never been contenders outside this weak era.

2011 and 2012 Evans and Wiggins Again good riders but not TDF contenders.

Looking at the riders that contended during the era after the Puerto cleansing it us pretty overwhelming that it was an extremely weak era. The tour should consider stripping the titles from that entire era as beating no one is not winning.

Between 2006 and 2012 the field was indeed very weak. When you examine the list of riders that suddenly became contenders it is clear that there was no competition.

In regards to Contador it is true that in the mountain stages the last 5 years he was not been even remotely competitive. It is likely that his early success at the tour was because of either the weak field or because of the reason he was suspended. My observation is that Contador has an extremely high floor but not a very high ceiling allowing him to race all year at a very competitive level and win races against riders not on form or good enough to ride for GC at the tour but on the other hand not able to competitive in the mountains of the tour against the best of the best. A very good rider but a rider that would have to have everything go right for him to be a legitimate contender at the tour against anything other than an extremely weak field.

In regards to your claim that this is Contador's best tour ever and he was in the form of his life. It might be true or it might not. His time trial performance does tell us he was in excellent form. But I doubt it matters much as he will struggle in the mountains at the Tour against good climbers. I think it is best to let Contador move on from the Tour. He is more than capable of bringing some excitement to the Vuelta or Giro and maybe winning 2,3 or maybe 4 more of these.

 

[Jspear]

Lol 2012 has no votes.

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

Between 2006 and 2012 the field was indeed very weak. When you examine the list of riders that suddenly became contenders it is clear that there was no competition.

In regards to Contador it is true that in the mountain stages the last 5 years he was not been even remotely competitive. It is likely that his early success at the tour was because of either the weak field or because of the reason he was suspended. My observation is that Contador has an extremely high floor but not a very high ceiling allowing him to race all year at a very competitive level and win races against riders not on form or good enough to ride for GC at the tour but on the other hand not able to competitive in the mountains of the tour against the best of the best. A very good rider but a rider that would have to have everything go right for him to be a legitimate contender at the tour against anything other than an extremely weak field.

In regards to your claim that this is Contador's best tour ever and he was in the form of his life. It might be true or it might not. His time trial performance does tell us he was in excellent form. But I doubt it matters much as he will struggle in the mountains at the Tour against good climbers. I think it is best to let Contador move on from the Tour. He is more than capable of bringing some excitement to the Vuelta or Giro and maybe winning 2,3 or maybe 4 more of these.

I don't believe the Tour's field in that period was all that weak, especially comparatively with the following period.
In fact, I can't conceive how the likes of Cadel Evans, Sastre, Vinokourov and Andy Schleck are weaker than Bardet, Porte, Purito or Quintana.

I can't even see how a top-form Menchov wouldn't podium any of the past editions of the Tour since 2012.

What I do think, however, is that both Contador and Schleck were so much better than their rivals (with the exception of 2011) that it makes the field look particularly weak, when in fact it wasn't.

 

[The Hegelian]

I voted 2011, but I sort of see them in terms of epochs rather than individual years. In this case two - '07-'11 & '12-17.

I thought the whole first epoch was pretty awesome. It actually got me back into watching cycling again after the Armstrong era which I just couldn't stomach. When the tour has one dominant rider and team, watching it is like being stuck in traffic. Yet '06 was weird - in fact I'm not sure I've seen anything weirder than Landis' long range resurrection. In the same way, I thought '96 was weird i.e. how could it be Riis of all people, to destroy the immutable Indurain?

But then the strangeness of being without a dominant/patron type gives way to a real openness - no one quite knows who will step up and assume the throne. And the uncertainty is compelling - the race becomes very alive. That happened a little in the late '90's, but it really happened in that '07-'11 epoch.

Maybe it will happen again post-Froome/Sky?

 

[jens_attacks]

2011 for me too. europcar flying and the best racing in the alps.

 

[Chomsky]

Re: Re:

2016. Cavendishs 4 wins in a very sprinter unfriendly route was by far the most exciting and best performance of the last 11 tours.

The GC was very weak between 2006 and 2012 with such a week field it is hard to take those tours seriously. There is not a GC contender during those tours that could reasonably contend for a poduim against todays GC field while now it is just the opposite with 20 or so riders that could have easily poduimed in any of those weak rider tours if not won outright. You had riders like Voeckler, Sastre, Perrerrio, Contador, Evans who have never ever before or since contended at the Tour winning or coming clise because of the depleted field. Fine riders in their own right but never tour contenders.

I don't buy this weak GT field stuff honestly. What you're saying basically is Lance and Ullrich would have smoked any of these guys? I don't believe it would have been that simple even. AC Tour 09 or Giro 11 would have been hard for them to handle. Other than those two, I don't see how the winners or contenders (Sastre, Rasmussen, Schleck, Evans, etc.) were weaker than other competition around in the early 00's like Basso, Beloki, Mayo, Vino.


Also, how you can vote 2016 is beyond me. I fell asleep damn near every day watching that.

The evidence is pretty overwhelming the field was exceptionally weak between 2006 and 2012. You had riders who had never contended at the Tour before or after winning or contending.

2006 Perrirro
2007 Rasmussen, Levi and Contador
2008 Sastre his best TDF was with. In his waning years he suddenly comes 5th to Rasmussen in 2007.
2009 Lance at 38 not having ridden in 4 years comes in third in a support role.

2009 Contador he has never contended since. The closest he has been to yellow at the Tour since 2009 was 6 minutes 27 seconds. His tour this year was,arguably his best Tour ever. Coming in just inside 10 minutes to yellow a slightly better than 2015.
He has done well in ITTs but has always lost time in the mountains the last 8 years occassionaly being able to stay with the top 10 on a climb. His best finish on a tour mountain stage the last 8 years when not in a break was 6th in 2013. This year he got an 8th and 10th.

While it's generally wise never to believe anything Contador said with his long history of problems with veracity. But this time he might actually might be telling the truth when he said he was in the best form of his life at this year's Tour. Certainly his ITT indicates he is in great form and his climbing is no worse than average and maybe a bit better than what we have seen from him the last 8 years at the tour.

2009 and 2010 2 Schleck Never been contenders outside this weak era.

2011 and 2012 Evans and Wiggins Again good riders but not TDF contenders.

Looking at the riders that contended during the era after the Puerto cleansing it us pretty overwhelming that it was an extremely weak era. The tour should consider stripping the titles from that entire era as beating no one is not winning.

Between 2006 and 2012 the field was indeed very weak. When you examine the list of riders that suddenly became contenders it is clear that there was no competition.

In regards to Contador it is true that in the mountain stages the last 5 years he was not been even remotely competitive. It is likely that his early success at the tour was because of either the weak field or because of the reason he was suspended. My observation is that Contador has an extremely high floor but not a very high ceiling allowing him to race all year at a very competitive level and win races against riders not on form or good enough to ride for GC at the tour but on the other hand not able to competitive in the mountains of the tour against the best of the best. A very good rider but a rider that would have to have everything go right for him to be a legitimate contender at the tour against anything other than an extremely weak field.

In regards to your claim that this is Contador's best tour ever and he was in the form of his life. It might be true or it might not. His time trial performance does tell us he was in excellent form. But I doubt it matters much as he will struggle in the mountains at the Tour against good climbers. I think it is best to let Contador move on from the Tour. He is more than capable of bringing some excitement to the Vuelta or Giro and maybe winning 2,3 or maybe 4 more of these.

I do like your line about Contador that he has an extremely high floor but low ceiling. That sums up his career quite well. Able to beat lesser riders or out if form riders but never able to compete with the top riders on the biggest stage evidenced by his best performance 'in the Tour the last 8 years being 6 mins 27 secs down and a best finish of 6th on a non break mountain stage over the last 8 years. He simply cannot compete against the top riders,when they are in form but he is an excellent rider who can compete at a high level all year long.

 

[Singer01]

Re:

Lol 2012 has no votes.

Even if you felt it was the best, you wouldn't ever admit so on here, you would be burned at the stake by the rest of the board.