Rate the 2016 Tour de France course

[rghysens]

Since as yet no one gave a shot at it: do as the thread title says.

The debate about it has been going on a few days at the tour de france 2016 prediction thread, though.

For me, if you look at it from a pure objective point of view, and aim for a balanced course, it has some major flaws:
1) it lacks a long (50+ km) flat (really flat, not like stage 13) itt, maybe in adition to the hilly tt of stage 13
2) it lacks a long multi-climb mountain stage, preferably ending with a downhill and preferably with some high altitude climbs, in the second half of the race
3) stage finishes in St Gervais and Mégève should be switched: the mtt stays an mtt (a bit shorter, and a bit more difficult) but Signal de Bisanne becomes way better placed

If you take this in account, I'd say: 7

Still, it is waaaaaaaaay better than the courses of 2015 or 2013, and if you take the strenghts and weaknesses of the contenders into account, it can provide for some entertaining racing. So, from a cycling fan's point of view, it deserves an 8.

 

[Red Rick]

Tour de France scale or GT scale?

 

[guncha]

I like that next TDF will climb unused or rarely used climbs. Some mountain stages are designed very creatively. It is nice to see decent finishes. However, in total we will have 9 mountain stages + 1 hilly stage which means we will see some climbing every second day. It is a bit too much.
It has more ITT than this year but still not enough. MTT is pointless, 2nd cat. climb won't create significant any gaps between top 3.

Overall, I gave 5 to it.

 

[bassano]

Re:

Tour de France scale or GT scale?

Since it is Tour de France I used Tour de France scale, so I voted 8, in case of Giro I would put 7 on this parcours

I like that next TDF will climb unused or rarely used climbs. Some mountain stages are designed very creatively. It is nice to see decent finishes. However, in total we will have 9 mountain stages + 1 hilly stage which means we will see some climbing every second day. It is a bit too much.
It has more ITT than this year but still not enough. MTT is pointless, 2nd cat. climb won't create significant any gaps between top 3.

Overall, I gave 5 to it.

Actually I think MTT usually create very significant gaps between GT contenders, like in 2 previous editions of Giro where MTT´s were involved, I am not saying it is right or wrong but definitelly not useless

 

[BigMac]

Re:

Tour de France scale or GT scale?

Do you always ask this questions?

Anyway, the answer is 7,59.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Tour de France scale or GT scale?

Do you always ask this questions?

Anyway, the answer is 7,59.

He always does that.

Anyways, I think his answer is 7 and 3, at best, since this guy literally hates the Tour.

 

[Miburo]

I think it's pretty good, but i'm biased since the route favors contador heavily.

 

[OlavEH]

7 or 8. After some consideration I've landed on 7.

A longer time trial and a proper queen stage in the Alps would have meant a 9. But still the best Tour route since 2011. And the first time in many years I've rated the Tour route higher than the Giro.

 

[guncha]

Re: Re:

Tour de France scale or GT scale?

Since it is Tour de France I used Tour de France scale, so I voted 8, in case of Giro I would put 7 on this parcours

I like that next TDF will climb unused or rarely used climbs. Some mountain stages are designed very creatively. It is nice to see decent finishes. However, in total we will have 9 mountain stages + 1 hilly stage which means we will see some climbing every second day. It is a bit too much.
It has more ITT than this year but still not enough. MTT is pointless, 2nd cat. climb won't create significant any gaps between top 3.

Overall, I gave 5 to it.

Actually I think MTT usually create very significant gaps between GT contenders, like in 2 previous editions of Giro where MTT´s were involved, I am not saying it is right or wrong but definitelly not useless

MTT of TDF 13 did not lead to anything. This one two times shorter and has a 2.5km @ 9.4% section plus two 8% sections. I can't imagine how it is possible to make more than 30 seconds gap between top 3 here.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

8/10, but I thought this year's course was fine, too, apart from the Plateau de Beille stage.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Re: Re:

Tour de France scale or GT scale?

Since it is Tour de France I used Tour de France scale, so I voted 8, in case of Giro I would put 7 on this parcours

I like that next TDF will climb unused or rarely used climbs. Some mountain stages are designed very creatively. It is nice to see decent finishes. However, in total we will have 9 mountain stages + 1 hilly stage which means we will see some climbing every second day. It is a bit too much.
It has more ITT than this year but still not enough. MTT is pointless, 2nd cat. climb won't create significant any gaps between top 3.

Overall, I gave 5 to it.

Actually I think MTT usually create very significant gaps between GT contenders, like in 2 previous editions of Giro where MTT´s were involved, I am not saying it is right or wrong but definitelly not useless

MTT of TDF 13 did not lead to anything. This one two times shorter and has a 2.5km @ 9.4% section plus two 8% sections. I can't imagine how it is possible to make more than 30 seconds gap between top 3 here.

Flat, false flat and 4-5% sections create gaps, too. I expect somewhat bigger gaps between the main contenders. 30 seconds isn't much. At least there are no meaningful descents this time - the main issue with that 2013 TT, IMO.

 

[Gigs_98]

I think its worse than the giro route which I gave 8 points, so I voted 7. Both routes don't have enough TT kilometers, but the giro also has only 3/4 mountain stages + a MTT while the tour has 7/8 mountain stages + a MTT

 

[Red Rick]

Gave it an 8, I think it's 9 on Tour scale and a 7 on GT scale. Have to say that for the first time in years I like it somewhat better than the Giro route.

couple of things that annoy me

First tt should be flat and longer
Not a that big a fan of Ventoux already
Though I like the stage, the way they use the Grand Colombier makes no sense to me
Once again, no really long, hard roller coaster stage

 

[Tonton]

Re:

Gave it an 8, I think it's 9 on Tour scale and a 7 on GT scale. Have to say that for the first time in years I like it somewhat better than the Giro route.

couple of things that annoy me

First tt should be flat and longer
Not a that big a fan of Ventoux already
Though I like the stage, the way they use the Grand Colombier makes no sense to me
Once again, no really long, hard roller coaster stage

Copy/Paste. +1000.

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

Gave it an 8, I think it's 9 on Tour scale and a 7 on GT scale. Have to say that for the first time in years I like it somewhat better than the Giro route.

couple of things that annoy me

First tt should be flat and longer
Not a that big a fan of Ventoux already
Though I like the stage, the way they use the Grand Colombier makes no sense to me
Once again, no really long, hard roller coaster stage

Yeah this pretty much sums up my feelings

 

[bassano]

I think its worse than the giro route which I gave 8 points, so I voted 7. Both routes don't have enough TT kilometers, but the giro also has only 3/4 mountain stages + a MTT while the tour has 7/8 mountain stages + a MTT

I think you can find more then 3/4 mountain stages in Giro, if you can find 8 of them on Tour, you can find 7 like that in Giro, definitelly not only half of them
ITT and MTT are quite same, parcours of this year Tour and Giro are very simillar, Tour is harder in general but Corvara and Sant ana di Vinadio stage are hardest from both parcours
only which I do not like so much is that stages like that should be longer

 

[Gigs_98]

I think its worse than the giro route which I gave 8 points, so I voted 7. Both routes don't have enough TT kilometers, but the giro also has only 3/4 mountain stages + a MTT while the tour has 7/8 mountain stages + a MTT

I think you can find more then 3/4 mountain stages in Giro, if you can find 8 of them on Tour, you can find 7 like that in Giro, definitelly not only half of them
ITT and MTT are quite same, parcours of this year Tour and Giro are very simillar, Tour is harder in general but Corvara and Sant ana di Vinadio stage are hardest from both parcours
only which I do not like so much is that stages like that should be longer

Okay, lets say the Aspin stag is only a medium mountain stage, then we would only have 7 mountain stages in the tour. The giro has 3 obvious ones (stage 14, 19, 20) and two which are probably also mountain stages (13, 16). But besides that I don't find anything more. Roccaraso is Super Loran level, Pra Martino is about as hard as Aspin and the rest maybe has some 2nd category climbs near the end which wouldnt be 1st category mountains in the tour too. However some people will probably disagree, especially about the Roccaraso stage, but actually it doesnt matter anyway. The important factor is that the giro will only have one single 1st category mtf, and probably one 2nd category mtf + a few more uphill finishes. I'm also happy that the tour has now 3 high mountain stages with downhill finishes (+ the aspin stage) but it still has 4 very hard mtf's which makes a huge difference. E.g. I call the stages to Andalo and Cividale mountain stages but that doesnt mean its likely that there will be mountain stage like time gaps and considering that the Corvara stage comes before the MTT might mean that the gaps wont be big there too. That means that pure climbers like Landa probably have to go for long range attacks, although there aren't many flat TT kilometers. Thats probably not the case in the tour because if Quintana simply climbs stronger than Froome the one hilly ITT by far wont be enough for Froome to have an equal chance.

 

[gregrowlerson]

[/quote]Thats probably not the case in the tour because if Quintana simply climbs stronger than Froome the one hilly ITT by far wont be enough for Froome to have an equal chance.[/quote]

Haven't you been reading the boards? Apparently Quintana has no chance against Contador let alone Froome

 

[Gigs_98]

Thats probably not the case in the tour because if Quintana simply climbs stronger than Froome the one hilly ITT by far wont be enough for Froome to have an equal chance.

Haven't you been reading the boards? Apparently Quintana has no chance against Contador let alone Froome

Well, I wrote "if Quintana climbs stronger than froome

 

[railxmig]

Let's open a contest! Let's see how godly I am!

1. Lac Payolle? I was analysing it around two years ago (Rute du Sud) but I've thought that it would be too unorthodox for Tour's close-mindness and maybe the availaible space is slightly too little.

2. Culoz ekhem... there's barely any place in the village itself. Tour would never consider a finish here! Silly people, sily...

3. MTT? Emm... too progressive for them? Maybe it bites? Maybe it's RCS propaganda? Or maybe just money and greedeness? I will sooner see 10 split stages with no rest days (oh, hi 70s! Nice to meet you!) than MTT.

4. Super-Llorian finish? That's nice. A nice Massif Central uphill sprint. Oh, no! They won't use Peyrol and Perthus because Tour. It's well publicized that they have a life goal of destroying every possible climb in France. Silly people, sily...

5. Ancizan descend and Azet east? Azet east even I have in my Tour design as i don't remember if it was used in any Tour before and I think that the west side descend would be pretty challenging, propably "safe" and unchallenging enough for ASO standards. Ancizan before Azet to cut those 10kms of flat? Nope. The Ancinzan descend would be IMO too dangerous and difficult for ASO. But that's ok with me. I doubt there would be finish in Loudenville any time soon and Azet + Peyresourde is pretty fine combination on itself. There would be never any action before Azet anyway, if it's Ancizan or Aspin.

6. Bisanne? Hahah... People... if it was Giro then of course it would be included propably a good amount of times before. If it was Vuelta then it would be included once or twice as an MTF to stay obscure and Unipublic. Tour? You guys just dreaming right now. Please, come back to life.

During last month I've come into two conclusions:
1. You guys doesn't know anything about reality, you should thank "g"od for "M"e!
2. ...I must give this route 9/10. Yep... I hope i'll be fast enough to ran from your torches and whips...