Reactions from the peloton

[pmcg76]

Stop trolling B I K E R E T A R D.

What's wrong, can't answer the questions?

All I am doing is applying standard clinic logic here.

 

[Netserk]

What's wrong, can't answer the questions?

All I am doing is applying standard clinic logic here.

So you will address post 1303?

 

[pmcg76]

So you will address post 1303?

So why don't you tell me all about those riders who have been based in Girona over the last 5 years and have been linked with doping cases relevant to the same time period. To frame it in your terms, if the teams based in Girona have not produced a positive test/links with doping in the last 5/6 years, is it fair to say that is a conspiracy to protect those teams or is it fair to still call those teams dirty.

Was Routley the only clean rider on Spidertech? If not, why would a clean team base itself in Girona if it were a doping haven?

 

[Benotti69]

So Routley is like Bassons and Moncoutie, he was the only clean rider on the doped up Spidertech team.

He called out the US Postal guys when they admitted but said nothing about his own team-mates. Sounds like ometra.

If you were a clean rider, why would you base yourself in Girona?

Why not if your team are based there? What if you took out an apartment for a year and decided as a lowly 'clean' pro you cannot afford to move?

P!ssing into the wind you are.....

 

[Netserk]

So why don't you tell me all about those riders who have been based in Girona over the last 5 years and have been linked with doping cases relevant to the same time period. To frame it in your terms, if the teams based in Girona have not produced a positive test/links with doping in the last 5/6 years, is it fair to say that is a conspiracy to protect those teams or is it fair to still call those teams dirty.

Was Routley the only clean rider on Spidertech? If not, why would a clean team base itself in Girona if it were a doping haven?

I don't know much about Spidertech, nor do I believe that every team based in Girona are dirty, but I do know that you haven't addressed my post at all. It was two very simple yes or no questions based on a hypothetical scenario, so it shouldn't be so difficult to answer them.

Here they are again:

*IF* a dirty team is based in Girona, but have one clean rider, is it then not okay to say the team is dirty? *IF* all teams based in Girona are dirty, but a few of the riders on those teams are clean, is it then not still correct that all teams based in Girona are dirty?

My answer is a yes to both. What is yours?

 

[pmcg76]

I don't know much about Spidertech, nor do I believe that every team based in Girona are dirty, but I do know that you haven't addressed my post at all. It was two very simple yes or no questions based on a hypothetical scenario, so it shouldn't be so difficult to answer them.

Here they are again:


My answer is a yes to both. What is yours?

Well apart from the fact that is a stupid hypothetical question because there can only be one answer, there is no choice, of course it's yes but that's not the reality so it's irrelevant.

Tell you what, you live with your hypothetical situations and I will stay with reality.

 

[Netserk]

Well apart from the fact that is a stupid hypothetical question because there can only be one answer, there is no choice, of course it's yes but that's not the reality so it's irrelevant.

Tell you what, you live with your hypothetical situations and I will stay with reality.

So if it's possible that all teams in Girona are dirty, but that there still are individuals who are clean on those teams, which doesn't change the fact that they are dirty, could you explain the logic behind this gem of yours?

"Lets put it like this, if I have to listen to people claim that Girona is a doping haven and then listen to them claim Routley is clean even though his team were based in Girona, I think I should be good to call BS on the duplicity"

 

[Benotti69]

Well apart from the fact that is a stupid hypothetical question because there can only be one answer, there is no choice, of course it's yes but that's not the reality so it's irrelevant.

Tell you what, you live with your hypothetical situations and I will stay with reality.

You aint living in reality believing that the clean riders can win monuments and GTs

 

[pmcg76]

So if it's possible that all teams in Girona are dirty, but that there still are individuals who are clean on those teams, which doesn't change the fact that they are dirty, could you explain the logic behind this gem of yours?

"Lets put it like this, if I have to listen to people claim that Girona is a doping haven and then listen to them claim Routley is clean even though his team were based in Girona, I think I should be good to call BS on the duplicity"

When you say "the fact they are dirty", you know that is not a fact and just a hypothesis.

This is silly, for that scenario to work, then Spidertech need to be doping as well. You say you don't know anything about Spidertech but do you think Roultey would have ridden for them if they were doping? When he said lots of other athletes were clean, who was he likely to be talking about? That interview was 2012. Maybe you should at the Spidertech team and work out who you think was a doper and then come back to this.

 

[Netserk]

So why exactly can't certain people (who AFAIK have never said *all* riders on teams based in Girona are dirty) claim that Routley is clean while his team is based in Girona?

You still haven't even tried to explain the logic behind that.

here's your quote again:

Lets put it like this, if I have to listen to people claim that Girona is a doping haven and then listen to them claim Routley is clean even though his team were based in Girona, I think I should be good to call BS on the duplicity

 

[pastronef]

http://www.rai.tv/dl/RaiTV/programm...t-7bbd2092-5ccb-440f-a6a1-c8ab90a5c9ac&page=0

here 2h44m20sec Geschke interview.

"es ist IMMER schade wenn Rogers ?draussens? ist"

it's always a pity when Rogers is away

 

[roundabout]

You missed him saying "Wenn man den Sprint gewinnt" before...

So, no. Not a statement on Rogers.

 

[pastronef]

You missed him saying "Wenn man den Sprint gewinnt" before...

So, no. Not a statement on Rogers.

ah ok, it was that IMMER together with ROGERS that sounded out loud to me

 

[pastronef]

Gerard liked today stage

https://twitter.com/gerardvroomen/status/471289130912337920

Regardless, a fantastic #giro. Only improvement would be if those Fluo clowns weren't there.

 

[Benotti69]

raceradio doesn't think Moncoutie was clean.......

 

[Libertine Seguros]

raceradio doesn't think Moncoutie was clean.......

But when questioned on it, they've got as far as "I've heard some people say some things and have clearly explained how I came to my conclusion and you can't have a rational discussion on this forum so I won't go into any more detail", and as they haven't explained how they came to their conclusion beyond that, I will need more to revise my position. As hrotha said at the time, two things really. 1) because of the lack of information backing up the assertion (which came in a two word post), had it been a poster with less cache than Race Radio, it would have been dismissed as trolling, and 2) Moncoutié not being clean would have serious implications on our understanding of the history of doping within cycling, as he has frequently been used as a yardstick for clean achievement. It's not just somebody with no dirt on them, but somebody who is almost universally heralded as definitely clean. It would be like if there was suddenly dirt on Bassons, or Lemond, people whose performances and behaviours are key in the understanding of doping in the sport.

 

[Benotti69]

But when questioned on it, they've got as far as "I've heard some people say some things and have clearly explained how I came to my conclusion and you can't have a rational discussion on this forum so I won't go into any more detail", and as they haven't explained how they came to their conclusion beyond that, I will need more to revise my position. As hrotha said at the time, two things really. 1) because of the lack of information backing up the assertion (which came in a two word post), had it been a poster with less cache than Race Radio, it would have been dismissed as trolling, and 2) Moncoutié not being clean would have serious implications on our understanding of the history of doping within cycling, as he has frequently been used as a yardstick for clean achievement. It's not just somebody with no dirt on them, but somebody who is almost universally heralded as definitely clean. It would be like if there was suddenly dirt on Bassons, or Lemond, people whose performances and behaviours are key in the understanding of doping in the sport.

i fully agree. Just thought i would re introduce it in case he felt like expanding on it.

 

[thehog]

Philippe Gaumont - "Prisonnier du dopage":

"...I spent 7 years with Cofidis (1997 - 2004), and during all that time, I met only 2 guys who didn't take any "stuff": the Estonian Janek Tombak and especially David Moncoutié. Apart from those 2, all the others spoke freely about doping, including the young neo-pros. one of them had even taken already EPO, cortisone, testosterone and creatin with the amateurs..."

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I'm sure after 2006 Cofidis were completely clean.

 

[thehog]

I'm sure after 2006 Cofidis were completely clean.

No flies on Moncoutié. Aussies O'Grady & White are the ones who treated Cofidis like a nightclub.