Reason for Lemond's decline

[Nick777]

Are you a Lance Armstrong Lawyer?
or Public Relations person?

Ha ha - far from it. I can't stand Armstrong.
As soon as I read his book, I made my mind up.

 

[Nick777]

Spot on. I would think a Pro cyclist like Paul Kimmage would be a much more reliable source than a triathlete coach. I don't think Lemond spent much time in triathlete circles. probably his only connection to triathlon would be...
Lance Armstrong.
an interesting side note about the cycling intelligence of Triathletes, I raced in the 80's against a field of Pros including Newby-Fraser & Huddle.
The bike course climbed from Lake Mead to Boulder City so there was a substantial elevation gain. I took my lightest bike & climbing wheels.
The top triathletes ran heavy discs, most front & rear. Anyone else remember how much those Campy Discs used to weigh? Yeah that was smart...
I was in T2 five minutes ahead of second place

That would be the intelligence of AMERICAN triathletes.

I reckon a triathlon coach that was a world champion cycling coach would have a fair idea.

 

[BigBoat]

That would be the intelligence of AMERICAN triathletes.

I reckon a triathlon coach that was a world champion cycling coach would have a fair idea.

Are you talking about Wenzel?

 

[nobody]

People still have this idea that Lemond was clean... I've heard at least one ex-team mate say that he doped, and there is no reason to believe that he wouldn't - the guy was at the cutting edge of everything in cycling. Look at 1990, in June he was 105th in the Giro, then 1st in the Tour... but nobody calls him on it. Greg was a popular guy doing what it took to win.

An ex-team mate?

Who is that guy? what he is doing now?

I am an ex-team mate of Lemond and I can say that he was clean, but when I was a team of Lance I saw him doping especiallt with EPO.
You can repeat it, don't forget to say where you got that information.
;D
-----
If you are looking at the performance of Lemond you can easily seen that is performance of the 90's were not greater than the previous.

Difficult to believe that he used blood doping.

 

[md2020]

Yes, I used to subscribe to Winning! I loved that mag.

I've still got a box of old Winning! mags from the late 80's and early 90's in my closet. I haven't looked at them in ages but can't bring myself to get rid of them.

 

[Digger]

People still have this idea that Lemond was clean... I've heard at least one ex-team mate say that he doped, and there is no reason to believe that he wouldn't - the guy was at the cutting edge of everything in cycling. Look at 1990, in June he was 105th in the Giro, then 1st in the Tour... but nobody calls him on it. Greg was a popular guy doing what it took to win.

Firstly, that 'ex-team mate' you're referring to is Jock Boyer?

Secondly, in relation to the Giro of 1990, is a guy not allowed get sick? Most people would have just dropped out in those circumstances...
As prevalent as EPO became, and it was endemic, it still wasn't completely as widespread in 1991, as it would later become. Conconi's files and dates show this. So Greg is retired over fifteen years, and the above is the best you can do to support your point....

 

[Eva Maria]

This triathlon coach pretended he knew a lot about cycling. In fact, he pretended his way to coaching more than one cyclist to become world champion on the track. He was a cycling coach first & foremost before he realized how much money a lot of triathletes have.

Lemond did pretty well when EPO first started.

Your friend, who coaches guys who ride bikes in Speedo's, is full of $hit.

Lemond was barely hung on when EPO became standard in the sport.

 

[unsheath]

Further to the Gewiss thread, it looks like they pioneered the EPO program in 88 so it would be expected that 90/91 would be the years it become more widespread in the peloton. This seems to be corroborated in the tour results and Greg's own testimony on the Ave speed that year.

As for the Giro results, Lemond has always emphasised he was rubbish in May because of his Hayfever. Make of that what you will.

 

[runninboy]

That would be the intelligence of AMERICAN triathletes.

I reckon a triathlon coach that was a world champion cycling coach would have a fair idea.

Paula Newby Fraser an american triathlete? I think not.

Secondly, You say the coach was first and foremost a cycling coach because he had a world champion on the track. OK how often did Lemond ride the track( excluding velodrome finishes in road races) in the EPO era?
How would some track coach have personal first hand knowledge of what Lemond was taking in the privacy of his own bedroom?

Rumours are rumours until you see it with your own eyes. People tell stories for whatever reason. Maybe this coach was snubbed by Lemond & he made up this little story because he was ****ed off. If he could discredit Lemond
"he was a doper too, that's why he won. But i train champions who win because they have the best coaching" It would be advantageous to him.
think about it, even the best cycling coach in the world, if he is not Lemonds coach he has no access, he only knows second hand info and why would someone feed him that info?

When i was running in the early mid 70's guys who were juiced wore dark sunglasses when they raced because you could tell by looking at their eyes they were wired.
So some of us wore the dark shades because we wanted people to BELIEVE
we had an advantage, which we didn't. I actually had a coach bring officials over after a race and yank my sunglasses off because he were sure i was juiced. Then the idiot asked
"why the hell would you wear dark sunglasses if you weren't on drugs"???!!!
"Very simple I wanted your guys to think i had an advantage"
the official just about wet his pants laughing...

 

[runninboy]

let me add
why would this coach tell you about Lemond doping?

think about it

 

[Nick777]

Are you talking about Wenzel?

No, different part of the world..

 

[Nick777]

Your friend, who coaches guys who ride bikes in Speedo's, is full of $hit.

Lemond was barely hung on when EPO became standard in the sport.

Without getting emotional, I don't think so. The coach isn't a friend of mine, but I will say this - he is in a position to know, and had no reason to make the story up. He is in his 60's, not some immature guy who wants attention.
Who he coaches these days has more to do with $$, he has done enough hard yards. Who cares if some of them ride in speedos? The world champions didn't.

Lemond's decline wasn't due to other guys being on EPO, that is pretty obvious.

 

[Nick777]

Paula Newby Fraser an american triathlete? I think not.

Secondly, You say the coach was first and foremost a cycling coach because he had a world champion on the track. OK how often did Lemond ride the track( excluding velodrome finishes in road races) in the EPO era?
How would some track coach have personal first hand knowledge of what Lemond was taking in the privacy of his own bedroom?

Rumours are rumours until you see it with your own eyes. People tell stories for whatever reason. Maybe this coach was snubbed by Lemond & he made up this little story because he was ****ed off. If he could discredit Lemond
"he was a doper too, that's why he won. But i train champions who win because they have the best coaching" It would be advantageous to him.
think about it, even the best cycling coach in the world, if he is not Lemonds coach he has no access, he only knows second hand info and why would someone feed him that info?

When i was running in the early mid 70's guys who were juiced wore dark sunglasses when they raced because you could tell by looking at their eyes they were wired.
So some of us wore the dark shades because we wanted people to BELIEVE
we had an advantage, which we didn't. I actually had a coach bring officials over after a race and yank my sunglasses off because he were sure i was juiced. Then the idiot asked
"why the hell would you wear dark sunglasses if you weren't on drugs"???!!!
"Very simple I wanted your guys to think i had an advantage"
the official just about wet his pants laughing...

You make some fair points..
Newby Fraser - probably the only Zimbabwean in the field..! Pretty good athlete, nonetheless. Triathletes have come a long way since then. Funnily enough, a few ex pro riders have done some Ironmans.

Anyhow - I can assure you that the coach a) wasn't snubbed by Lemond, b) wasn't using the 'Lemond doped' angle for personal gain, and c) was well connected enough to know what went on at the very top level.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

All the way to Lemond? So he had a direct enough path, going past Kochli, past Pettyjohn (and past Jacome). So much that he was able to get past these two, and others, who were outspoken against doping, and most closely connected to Greg, and was able to find out secrets about Lemond's doping that no one else, including these people knew?

Or are they all, including Kochli and Pettyjohn, liars?

Lemond's decline wasn't due to other guys being on EPO, that is pretty obvious.

It is?

 

[Eva Maria]

You make some fair points..
Newby Fraser - probably the only Zimbabwean in the field..! Pretty good athlete, nonetheless. Triathletes have come a long way since then. Funnily enough, a few ex pro riders have done some Ironmans.

Anyhow - I can assure you that the coach a) wasn't snubbed by Lemond, b) wasn't using the 'Lemond doped' angle for personal gain, and c) was well connected enough to know what went on at the very top level.

Or invent what he thought went on.

I am FAR more connected to the professional sport then your "coach" will ever be. It never happened. Complete invention.

 

[acoggan]

Coggan? Are you embarrassed you stood up for that fraud Coyle?

Why should I be? I just called it as I saw (see) it.

You lost a ton of credibility with that.

Not with any of my colleagues.

 

[acoggan]

Their all sellouts, Eva. Coggan loves cycling and he loves the lies & denials, otherwise he wouldnt live off the industry.

You seem to be confused about how I make my living - my total cycling-related income over the last 5 y would barely be enough to buy a really nice bike.

 

[R.0.t.O]

Firstly, that 'ex-team mate' you're referring to is Jock Boyer?

Secondly, in relation to the Giro of 1990, is a guy not allowed get sick? Most people would have just dropped out in those circumstances...
As prevalent as EPO became, and it was endemic, it still wasn't completely as widespread in 1991, as it would later become. Conconi's files and dates show this. So Greg is retired over fifteen years, and the above is the best you can do to support your point....

I didn't really have a 'point.' If you want to believe that Lemond was clean then carry on. Lots of people believe that Armstrong is clean and they're wrong.

I'm not going to say who the ex-team mate is because it wasn't said publicly on the record and was without any axe to grind, but it wasn't Boyer.

 

[Escarabajo]

I didn't really have a 'point.' If you want to believe that Lemond was clean then carry on. Lots of people believe that Armstrong is clean and they're wrong.

I'm not going to say who the ex-team mate is because it wasn't said publicly on the record and was without any axe to grind, but it wasn't Boyer.

Again, you are trying to manipulate the information. We are talking about EPO. Most of the forists are not arguing about whether if he was clean or not.

 

[BigBoat]

You seem to be confused about how I make my living - my total cycling-related income over the last 5 y would barely be enough to buy a really nice bike.

Yeah, your right. I see.

Coggan? Are you embarrassed you stood up for that fraud Coyle?

Coyle's study was actually fairly accurate. Lance's efficiency is actually higher than what Coycle calculated it to be.

Lemond was barely hung on when EPO became standard in the sport.

Lemon is a fat whinny bittch!

 

[Eva Maria]

Coyle's study was actually fairly accurate. Lance's efficiency is actually higher than what Coycle calculated it to be.
Lemon is a fat whinny bittch!

Not really, Coyle is a joke. Even before the truth came out most of his peers considered him a fraud

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2008/09/coyle-and-armstrong-research-errors.html


http://www.sportsscientists.com/2008/09/coyle-armstrong-research-installment-2.html

 

[Eva Maria]

I'm not going to say who the ex-team mate is because it wasn't said publicly on the record and was without any axe to grind, but it wasn't Boyer.

One of Armstrong's many threats to Greg was "I will find 10 people who said you took EPO"

Armstrong then hired a Political PR firm, Public Strategies, to dig up dirt and spread disinformation on Lemond. They found nothing. Not one former teammate, friend, or team staff said that Lemond used EPO.

Your friend can make some good money by telling his "story". Tell him to go here

http://www.pstrategies.com call 512.474.8848 ask for Mark.

Unless of course he is lying.

 

[Escarabajo]

Not really, Coyle is a joke. Even before the truth came out most of his peers considered him a fraud

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2008/09/coyle-and-armstrong-research-errors.html


http://www.sportsscientists.com/2008/09/coyle-armstrong-research-installment-2.html

Puff. Excellent reading. I just barely finished reading some of the comments of the articles.
Thanks.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Not really, Coyle is a joke. Even before the truth came out most of his peers considered him a fraud.

BigBoat is full of hot air. He doesn't actually believe any of what he wrote there, and is just yanking your chain. Ignore posts like this from him. Search through some of his past posts and you'll find he's as jaded about doping as anyone on this site.

Good links. I knew the story, but those are telling.

 

[runninboy]

One of Armstrong's many threats to Greg was "I will find 10 people who said you took EPO"

Armstrong then hired a Political PR firm, Public Strategies, to dig up dirt and spread disinformation on Lemond. They found nothing. Not one former teammate, friend, or team staff said that Lemond used EPO.

Your friend can make some good money by telling his "story". Tell him to go here

http://www.pstrategies.com call 512.474.8848 ask for Mark.

Unless of course he is lying.

Excellent. I get sick of the people who are "friends" with people on the inside, then they get fed "insider info" which they present as fact. People don't want to admit they are stupid patsies being used to perpetuate a false hood for someone elses gain.
THANK YOU EVA MARIE for giving these so called experts a chance to put up or shut up.