Remco and Roglic vs the World

[Gargamel35]

Who is pushing Remco in GT racing? It's Remco's dream to win all races at leats once. So that includes Giro and TDF.

I agree that he could take the MVDP approach, and focus on 1-day racing and stage hunting. He could easily win 4 stages in each GT like that, but it would be a waste of his talents because he can win the whole race.

I didn't know it's his wish to compete in GT for GC podiums/wins. Looks like he's killing himself and hurting his chances to win races he's more suitable for. 3 week long races take a big toll on bodies, injuries happen and that's how you loose a season and get nothing out of it.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Who is pushing Remco in GT racing?

Off the top of my head and in no particular order, Remco, Remco fans, SOQ, RBH, Sven, Denk, Rogla ... Belgium media and likely the world peace. Once he switches teams the pressure to deliver will be immense.

 

[Berniece]

Off the top of my head and in no particular order, Remco, Remco fans, SOQ, RBH, Sven, Denk, Rogla ... Belgium media and likely the world peace. Once he switches teams the pressure to deliver will be immense.

Yeah good thing the pressure wasn't immense until he changes teams. People barely talk about him when he starts a GT. It's not like radio stations make songs about him or anything when he does a GT.

 

[acm]

So because he's Belgian he will favour Remco? And Denk doesn't have anything to say anymore? Or Denk would automatically favour Lipowitz, just because both of them are German? These aren't adults in a multi million euro organisation that mostly focus on winning and being the best? They care about silly things like nationality?

Not such a silly thing, especially for the Germans and Denk...

 

[Remy55]

Denk does not care anymore if a rider is German, Belgian or Columbian.
The shift from the team from german and austrian riders to international riders is obvious

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

First of all, Pogacar was riding when Evenepoel won the World Champs in 2022. People simply forget because he didn't win or dominate. You know why? Because the Pogacar of 2022 wasn't the Pogacar of 2024-2025. Pog used to be beatable, but i don't know what they did after 2023, but he is in fact no longer human.

Evenepoel won some LBL without Pogacar, lol, ok. First of all, he won them by dominating the entire field, twice, not like Roglic won his only monument by following wheels and getting lucky Alaphilippe was swerving into all his competitors and then dumb enough to raise his hands too soon.

And of course you would need to bring up the number of GT's Roglic won since that is basically your only card. Roglic has the far better GT results, nobody is debating that. But so does Simon Yates or Geraint Thomas. Heck, even Hindley. When Evenepoel wins, he wins big. When Roglic wins, it's likely to be on boniseconds. Roglic is a calculated pro who knows his body. Evenepoel is a force of nature when he is fit and in form.

My issue is that you are defining “generational talent” to match Remco’s attributes. So you exclude Roglic’s 5 GTs, 11 prestigious stage races, ITT gold, 22 GT stage wins, 3 X Emilia, and 1 X LBL and say “of course you would need to bring up the number of GTs won” as if that is irrelevant. We’re talking about “generational talents” among GC riders; how on earth is that not relevant? Plus you’re talking about San Sebastián but excluding Emilia. Where is the consistency here?

But the style! You don’t amass the wins Roglic has without being truly great. We’ll see if Remco gets there. And then you use counterfactuals to bolster Remco’s case (if not for the crashes, the disrupted prep, the Covid…) but do not apply that same logic elsewhere (if not for the extremely late start to the sport, the crashes, the illnesses, the surgeries…).

Look, I’m with you - Remco is an extreme talent. And I guess the core of what you’re saying is that Remco is the best in the world at something (ITTs) and Roglic is not; fine, I’ll grant you that. He could end up with 5 or more GTs and 11 or more stage races but at this point, during the same period, he has 1 and 0. That’s a big gap for a generational talent. My theory also is that he tapped into his potential at a much earlier age and has less room to develop. Regardless, I am hoping he steps up and competes with Pogacar (but not expecting it).

One last thing - remember how Remco was going to destroy Roglic on that classics style stage in Catalunya and it turned out Roglic could in fact just go with him? And then this year Roglic went from afar like Remco but actually held everyone off and took the win?

 

[AmRacer]

My issue is that you are defining “generational talent” to match Remco’s attributes. So you exclude Roglic’s 5 GTs, 11 prestigious stage races, ITT gold, 22 GT stage wins, 3 X Emilia, and 1 X LBL and say “of course you would need to bring up the number of GTs won” as if that is irrelevant. We’re talking about “generational talents” among GC riders; how on earth is that not relevant? Plus you’re talking about San Sebastián but excluding Emilia. Where is the consistency here?

But the style! You don’t amass the wins Roglic has without being truly great. We’ll see if Remco gets there. And then you use counterfactuals to bolster Remco’s case (if not for the crashes, the disrupted prep, the Covid…) but do not apply that same logic elsewhere (if not for the extremely late start to the sport, the crashes, the illnesses, the surgeries…).

Look, I’m with you - Remco is an extreme talent. And I guess the core of what you’re saying is that Remco is the best in the world at something (ITTs) and Roglic is not; fine, I’ll grant you that. He could end up with 5 or more GTs and 11 or more stage races but at this point, during the same period, he has 1 and 0. That’s a big gap for a generational talent. My theory also is that he tapped into his potential at a much earlier age and has less room to develop. Regardless, I am hoping he steps up and competes with Pogacar but not expecting it.

One last thing - remember how Remco was going to destroy Roglic on that classics style stage in Catalunya and it turned out Roglic could in fact just go with him? And then this year Roglic went from afar like Remco but actually held everyone off and took the win?

Rogla's Vuelta 2024....

 

[Berniece]

Yes i feel that it's reasonable to expect for Sven to favour Remco at the Tour 2026 if Remco signs for RBH and Sven is DS. Said that it's up to Remco to deliver and if he can then that is that if for whatever reasons involved he won't then i guess we are in a bit of a pickle, as to what next. We'll see.

P.S. As for Rogla i feel that he will manage just fine, one door closed another one opened.

Yes the door of being a leader has been closed, the door of being a domestique has been opened

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

My issue is that you are defining “generational talent” to match Remco’s attributes. So you exclude Roglic’s 5 GTs, 11 prestigious stage races, ITT gold, 22 GT stage wins, 3 X Emilia, and 1 X LBL and say “of course you would need to bring up the number of GTs won” as if that is irrelevant. We’re talking about “generational talents” among GC riders; how on earth is that not relevant? Plus you’re talking about San Sebastián but excluding Emilia. Where is the consistency here?

But the style! You don’t amass the wins Roglic has without being truly great. We’ll see if Remco gets there. And then you use counterfactuals to bolster Remco’s case (if not for the crashes, the disrupted prep, the Covid…) but do not apply that same logic elsewhere (if not for the extremely late start to the sport, the crashes, the illnesses, the surgeries…).

Look, I’m with you - Remco is an extreme talent. And I guess the core of what you’re saying is that Remco is the best in the world at something (ITTs) and Roglic is not; fine, I’ll grant you that. He could end up with 5 or more GTs and 11 or more stage races but at this point, during the same period, he has 1 and 0. That’s a big gap for a generational talent. My theory also is that he tapped into his potential at a much earlier age and has less room to develop. Regardless, I am hoping he steps up and competes with Pogacar (but not expecting it).

One last thing - remember how Remco was going to destroy Roglic on that classics style stage in Catalunya and it turned out Roglic could in fact just go with him? And then this year Roglic went from afar like Remco but actually held everyone off and took the win?

You are making accountant-like arguments. Look, it's simple. Before Roglic, there were guys like Froome, Contador, Valverde... in past years. Before Evenepoel, you literally had to go back decades to find someone who was able to do what he did. That's what i'm talking about. He has won a GT, he has been dominant in the mountains when in form, he has been dominant in classics, monuments, he's is the best TT'er in a long time, he is a championship rider, he can destroy opposition in ways Roglic can only dream of. The only thing here, is that Pogacar suddenly erupted and has cast a shadow over both.

Let me put it differently. Put Evenepoel in a 1v1 race over ANY type of terrain of your choosing and he will obliterate the likes of Roglic, Van der Poel, Vingegaard... over a course of 200-250km. And in the past 50 years, nobody, not even Cancellara on an e-bike could have beaten him. The only guy who could would be Pogacar.

 

[greyclouds]

To be noted that those other talents excel in one single domain of road cycling, while Remco, like Pogacar, is competitive to the highest level in multiple domains (TT, hilly classics and stage races/GT's).

It took over 50 years to find a new Merckx. It's clear now who that rightfully is. Statistically it would have been nearly impossible to suddenly have 2 Merckx-like talents at the same time. Moreover, if that would have been the case, they would each be half a Merckx, cannibalizing each other and no one would even think to compare both of them to Merckx.

Remco is more rounded than Vingegaard and MvdP but not as good as they are on their domain (classics and GTs/GCs/mountain).

I'm not sure if he is more complete than Roglic. Roglic gets little slack here these days but his palmares includes: 5 GTs, 22 GT stages inc various ITTs, 1 monument (LBL), 1 Olympic gold (ITT), 23 (!) GC races most at WT level including all but Suisse from the big 7 + a few climbers' classics (Emilia, Milano Torino). A few pages ago someone said that Roglic was not a generational talent (Logic?). To me he is the prototype of a generational talent.

 

[greyclouds]

You are making accountant-like arguments. Look, it's simple. Before Roglic, there were guys like Froome, Contador, Valverde... in past years. Before Evenepoel, you literally had to go back decades to find someone who was able to do what he did. That's what i'm talking about. He has won a GT, he has been dominant in the mountains when in form, he has been dominant in classics, monuments, he's is the best TT'er in a long time, he is a championship rider, he can destroy opposition in ways Roglic can only dream of. The only thing here, is that Pogacar suddenly erupted and has cast a shadow over both.

Let me put it differently. Put Evenepoel in a 1v1 race over ANY type of terrain of your choosing and he will obliterate the likes of Roglic, Van der Poel, Vingegaard... over a course of 200-250km. And in the past 50 years, nobody, not even Cancellara on an e-bike could have beaten him. The only guy who could would be Pogacar.

Sorry but

 

[CyclistAbi]

Lets not forget Rogla was beating Pogi in GTs, week long stage races, monuments and at nationals. Don't really know who else can say that.

So that argument about Rogla being or not being legit, not even Pogi can deny it, so.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Sorry but

If that is your response, then clearly you have no idea.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

You are making accountant-like arguments. Look, it's simple. Before Roglic, there were guys like Froome, Contador, Valverde... in past years. Before Evenepoel, you literally had to go back decades to find someone who was able to do what he did. That's what i'm talking about. He has won a GT, he has been dominant in the mountains when in form, he has been dominant in classics, monuments, he's is the best TT'er in a long time, he is a championship rider, he can destroy opposition in ways Roglic can only dream of. The only thing here, is that Pogacar suddenly erupted and has cast a shadow over both.

Let me put it differently. Put Evenepoel in a 1v1 race over ANY type of terrain of your choosing and he will obliterate the likes of Roglic, Van der Poel, Vingegaard... over a course of 200-250km. And in the past 50 years, nobody, not even Cancellara on an e-bike could have beaten him. The only guy who could would be Pogacar.

You’re getting a lot of pushback because your argument is: “Let me put it differently, [made up conclusion written as if evidence that supports that conclusion.”

Also, Roglic literally has 5 GTs & 22 stage races vs 1 & 1 during the same time period while also winning multiple hilly classics, a gold ITT, and 23 GT stages. The gap in Roglic and Remco’s one day results is < the gap in their stage race results.

Plus, when has Remco been “dominant” in the mountains? And how does that compare to, say, Roglic in the 2024 Vuelta?

-The Accountant

 

[houtdffan]

Denk does not care anymore if a rider is German, Belgian or Columbian.
The shift from the team from german and austrian riders to international riders is obvious

It's Red Bull's call

 

[AmRacer]

@red_flanders

Or on the road.

@James M

AFAIK Rogla didn't crash, Pogi did.

Pogi showed Rogla how to crash and still win.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Yes, exactly the prodigal son teaching Roga how to crash and winning TDF at the same time.

I see, he needs to crash now to win, used to be the other way around. We'll see.

Pogi showed Rogla how to crash and still win.

Rogla did a couple of those too. Anyway, it's going to be a long transfer season and no need to do it all now.

 

[KoopaCycling]

I think both sides are getting a bit carried away.

Remco is a great rider but he is not without flaws.
Roglic a great rider but he is also not without flaws.

I have to say the argument that Roglic was beating Pogacar is only factually right.
Pogacar was a neoprof when Roglic beat him in a GT. and Pogacar beat him in his second GT.
Maybe Basque 21 can be counted, but even then Pogacar was not the Pogacar of today.

 

[AmRacer]

I see, he needs to crash now to win, used to be the other way around. We'll see.



Rogla did a couple of those too. Anyway, it's going to be a long transfer season and no need to do it all now.

The Tour?

 

[AmRacer]

@AmRacer

Do you have to beat Pogi at the Tour, to say you beat him at a GT? Anyway, lets return to Remco.

Is not doing San Sebastian health and form orientated issue or a silent protest due to the team not willing to let him go?

Yes, that's what Pogi showed Rogla. Crashing and still winning the Tour.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

You’re getting a lot of pushback because your argument is: “Let me put it differently, [made up conclusion written as if evidence that supports that conclusion.”

Also, Roglic literally has 5 GTs & 22 stage races vs 1 & 1 during the same time

This is factually incorrect. First Roglic has 23 stage races, not 22. So Its 5GTs & 23 stage races for Roglic. But then you have to give Remco the correct number and that is not 1 & 1 lol. It is 1 GT and 12 stage races. It makes quite a huge difference.

 

[AmRacer]

This is factually incorrect. First Roglic has 23 stage races, not 22. So Its 5GTs & 23 stage races for Roglic. But then you have to give Remco the correct number and that is not 1 & 1 lol. It is 1 GT and 12 stage races. It makes quite a huge difference.

Only the 7 big one counts.

 

[AlpRaid]

Lets not forget Rogla was beating Pogi in GTs, week long stage races, monuments and at nationals. Don't really know who else can say that.

So that argument about Rogla being or not being legit, not even Pogi can deny it, so.

pog pre-24.

whole different ballgame.

pre-24, remco dropped pog in the euros on a hill. remco was still returning to form from the Lombardy crash. this would never happen now. pog is very different from when rog could beat him in any type of race at all.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Sorry, I got turned around:
Roglic has 5 GTs, 22 GT stage wins, 12 top 7 one-week races (including 6/7)
Remco has 1 GT, 9 GT stage wins, 0 top 7 one-week races

 

[acm]

Denk does not care anymore if a rider is German, Belgian or Columbian.
The shift from the team from german and austrian riders to international riders is obvious

Then I don't know what you've been doing for the past 3 weeks...
Those german and austrian riders weren't really good lately, don't know what Palzer is still doing in the team.