Results of clean riders

[Amazinmets87]

I recall Tyler Hamilton stating he'd riden the '01 Tour de France and Tour de Suisse clean. Can anyone cite performances of other clean riders in major races, particularly post 1990?

 

[hrotha]

I wouldn't count that as "clean", just as "not glowing" - he still reaped the benefits of enhanced training. But Jörg Jaksche claimed not to have doped during the 2000 Tour de France.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Laurens Ten Dam, 8th Vuelta 2012, 9th Tour 2014

 

[Black Betsy]

3rd in Hout Var '99 ?

 

[lightclimber]

3rd in Haut Var '99 ?

Christophe Bassons also won stage 7 of the 1999 Criterium du Dauphine... directly ahead of Lance himself.

autobus link: www.cyclingnews.com presents the 51st Crit�rium du Dauphin� Lib�r� 1999

"Both Vinokourov and Bassons are part of a new generation of riders that provide a fresh image in the face of the doping scandals...."

 

[Sciatic]

I recall Tyler Hamilton stating he'd riden the '01 Tour de France and Tour de Suisse clean. Can anyone cite performances of other clean riders in major races, particularly post 1990?

I finally just got around to reading his book. My impression is that for all his ample admissions of doping & doping strategies, he’s still trying to create some doping denial in there.

 

[Aragon]

I recall Tyler Hamilton stating he'd riden the '01 Tour de France and Tour de Suisse clean. Can anyone cite performances of other clean riders in major races, particularly post 1990?

There is a passing reference in the book that the 2001 Tour de Suisse limited their pre-TDF EPO use. Ty likely didn't keep his Hct high during the Tour with microdosing / transfusions, but he somewhat boosted it before the Tour with EPO.

 

[Bolder]

If a rider says he raced clean, does that make it so?

 

[Cookster15]

If a rider says he raced clean, does that make it so?

Of course not but it makes sense. 2001 was shortly after the EPO test became available (prior to Sydney 2000 Olympics) but before doctors perfected transfusions followed by the biological passport around 2007/2008. Climbing times from that period took a dip. By 2004 we were back to 90s levels with transfusions, then carefully timed EPO micro-dosing to fool the BP.

 

[Cookster15]

I recall Tyler Hamilton stating he'd riden the '01 Tour de France and Tour de Suisse clean. Can anyone cite performances of other clean riders in major races, particularly post 1990?

Cadel Evans 2002 Giro? Most will say he rode with Mapei who were as dirty as they come but below is a great read on what happened in the 2002 Giro when an inexperienced Cadel took pink on stage 16 then cracked on the final mountain defending pink in stage 17.

https://www.ridemedia.com.au/past-issue/flashback-cadels-first-day-in-the-maglia-rosa-ride-17-2002/

 

[Amazinmets87]

Of course not but it makes sense. 2001 was shortly after the EPO test became available (prior to Sydney 2000 Olympics) but before doctors perfected transfusions followed by the biological passport around 2007/2008. Climbing times from that period took a dip. By 2004 we were back to 90s levels with transfusions, then carefully timed EPO micro-dosing to fool the BP.

Supposedly there was strife with Lance that led to his lack of access to doping products.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Of course not but it makes sense. 2001 was shortly after the EPO test became available (prior to Sydney 2000 Olympics) but before doctors perfected transfusions followed by the biological passport around 2007/2008. Climbing times from that period took a dip. By 2004 we were back to 90s levels with transfusions, then carefully timed EPO micro-dosing to fool the BP.

2001 was the strongest version of Armstrong, he was crushing mountains and TTs at the Tour gaining almost 7 minute advantage over in-form Ullrich. His time up the Alpe was 38' while going solo almost the whole climb at the end of a super hard Alpine stage ("the look" and super strong interval attack in the first kms, which actually could've worsened his potential climb time but surely hit Ullrich's mentality). Besides his 2 min advantage at the Alpe, he also crushed the rest in one Pyrenean epic stage and two TTs (flat and mountainous). I think that overall (mountains + TTs) it was the highest level ever seen at the Tour. Whatever was happening behind the scenes, Lance for sure still had an access to top-level doping.

 

[Cookster15]

2001 was the strongest version of Armstrong, he was crushing mountains and TTs at the Tour gaining almost 7 minute advantage over in-form Ullrich. His time up the Alpe was 38' while going solo almost the whole climb at the end of a super hard Alpine stage ("the look" and super strong interval attack in the first kms, which actually could've worsened his potential climb time but surely hit Ullrich's mentality). Besides his 2 min advantage at the Alpe, he also crushed the rest in one Pyrenean epic stage and two TTs (flat and mountainous). I think that overall (mountains + TTs) it was the highest level ever seen at the Tour. Whatever was happening behind the scenes, Lance for sure still had an access to top-level doping.

Ah yes thanks for this, not sure why I forgot but I think Lance and USPS were on a different level to everyone else in 2001.

The year after 2002 was also when I recall US Postal was at its most supreme with Lance's teammates pulling whilst rival climbers got shelled. But I also notice the 2002 PdB time was only the 28th fastest ascent - Pantani holds that record too followed by Contador and Russmusen (2007). Cadel who blew that day in 2007 still rode within 5 seconds of Lance's time:

New Top 100 Plateau de Beille: The 2015 champs in the first quarter

© Beardy McBeard 1. 1998: 43:20 Marco Pantani 21.88 km/h 2. 2007: 44:08 Alberto Contador 21.62 km/h 3. 2007: 44:08 Michael Rasm...

www.climbing-records.com

But in the early 2000's I suppose it was transfusions or testers looking the other way since the EPO test was supposed to be used by then.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Laurens Ten Dam, 8th Vuelta 2012, 9th Tour 2014

I never saw as him as the most dirty rider, but the fact that Thomas Dekker made it a thing in his book that Ten Dam never did anything made LTD a lot more suspicious to me.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

I recall Tyler Hamilton stating he'd riden the '01 Tour de France and Tour de Suisse clean. Can anyone cite performances of other clean riders in major races, particularly post 1990?

He didn't say that he rode those races clean. He said he didn't do any blood transfusions that summer, because he had fallen out of Lance's inner circle and was not favoured by the team. At that point, only a select few top riders in the team did transfusion. Hence his lack of form compared to 2000 and 2002-03

He was still using testosterone, small amounts of epo and whatever other basic things US posting service had him on.

 

[Invicituz]

Willy Voet said French cyclist Éric Caritoux won the 1984 Vuelta a España without performance-enhancing drugs.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/1999/may99/may20.shtml

Were there any clean riders? He said that Éric Caritoux won the Vuelta in 1984 without "using anything". But later he became involved in the scene.

 

[ppanther92]

I couldn't name one rider, honestly. Even the famous "clean-ones" like Moncoutie and Ten Dam are suspicious to me personally.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Willy Voet said French cyclist Éric Caritoux won the 1984 Vuelta a España without performance-enhancing drugs.

Riding one race clean does not a clean rider make. Caritoux doped, just like the rest.

 

[Amazinmets87]

I really need to reread his book, but I also recall Hamilton stating that some rouleurs on the '99 Postal team were riding clean at the Tour. That is until he gave them EPO from his own personal stash, which they gratefully accepted.

 

[fmk_RoI]

I really need to reread his book

No one needs to read that book. No one.

 

[Aragon]

No one needs to read that book. No one.

From his book one almost gets the impression that Tyler rode the 2004 Vuelta clean, because he tells absolutely nothing about his doping use after his BB delivery boy dumped his blood bags into the gutter in the midst of the Tour de France in July. There is not a word about his medical preparation for the Olympics nor for the Vuelta.

This is an extremely weird omission, because it was the most momentous and consequential period of his career and what took place and didn't one of the most important unanswered open questions for an average reader. It looks even more weird when one realizes that Ty tells in almost microscopic detail about what EPO use and blood donations & transfusions took place in almost every race from the spring classics to GT in the course of his career.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Maybe Teddy today?

 

[Rackham]

From his book one almost gets the impression that Tyler rode the 2004 Vuelta clean, because he tells absolutely nothing about his doping use after his BB delivery boy dumped his blood bags into the gutter in the midst of the Tour de France in July. There is not a word about his medical preparation for the Olympics nor for the Vuelta.

This is an extremely weird omission, because it was the most momentous and consequential period of his career and what took place and didn't one of the most important unanswered open questions for an average reader. It looks even more weird when one realizes that Ty tells in almost microscopic detail about what EPO use and blood donations & transfusions took place in almost every race from the spring classics to GT in the course of his career.

We take the good, i.e. all the juicy (pun intended) doping details throughout this career & then the bad, which is certain omissions & deliberate gaping holes in the how, why, where, when & more importantly 'who' was involved in the entire process.

And that's the crux, i.e. all these riders (especially the famous ones like Hamilton) are still protecting some names behind the scenes so they never fully reveal the big picture in detail. Like Lance Armstrong's official confession would have us believe he came out of retirement & podiumed the 2009 TdF on bread & water, which is freaking ridiculous but no one (in a position of authority at least) has ever pressed him on this glaring incongruity in his admission of doping guilt.

Maybe Teddy today?

No way he was clean, he had mud on his bib shorts.

 

[Aragon]

We take the good, i.e. all the juicy (pun intended) doping details throughout this career & then the bad, which is certain omissions & deliberate gaping holes in the how, why, where, when & more importantly 'who' was involved in the entire process.

And that's the crux, i.e. all these riders (especially the famous ones like Hamilton) are still protecting some names behind the scenes so they never fully reveal the big picture in detail. Like Lance Armstrong's official confession would have us believe he came out of retirement & podiumed the 2009 TdF on bread & water, which is freaking ridiculous but no one (in a position of authority at least) has ever pressed him on this glaring incongruity in his admission of doping guilt.

I've expressed elsewhere that I think that Tyler Hamilton used intentionally someone else's blood in 2004 and got popped because of a combination of stupidity + unfortunate conditions, and that he has very strategic omissions in his autobiography about this in his book. More generally about the PED use of others, he ins't telling less than he knows but - to the contrary - more than he knows.

USADA officially sanctioned Lance for his alleged 2009-2010 blood doping based on statistical calculations removing his results from those years from the records. I am in a total minority, but I think it was possible that he rode 2009-2010 clean. It makes little sense that you want make a comeback to show that you can ride clean because there were so much doping allegations when you retired a few years earlier. Actually had he been sanctioned in 2009-2010, it would've tainted also all his results until 2005.

 

[fmk_RoI]

no one (in a position of authority at least) has ever pressed him on this glaring incongruity in his admission of doping guilt.

Really? No one? Selective memory some?