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Ricco

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Jan 19, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
yet missed the obvious difference between him and Ricco/Vino
I think the most obvious difference is that even though they ALL doped, Vino and Ricco were not even close to winning the Tour.

Personally, I like the attacking style of Vino/Ricco and will be very interested to watch next year when AC and Schrek are doing trackstands and Ricco blows them away because they are watching each other.
 
Roland Rat said:
The difference IMO is that Vino (and Basso etc) seem to have doped only to keep up and in a clean environment would remain clean, whereas the likes of Ricco etc would see a clean peloton as easy pickings and would continue to juice to the gills. I may be wrong on the names, but there is a distinction there and I don't see it as hypocritical to accept the former when it is believed they are now clean, but not to accept the latter when it's unlikely he will ever be clean.
I doubt you have any evidence for this assertion at all. Ricco, to be sure, comes off as an a-hole, a jerk, but that does not necessarily translate into someone who would dope even if he was sure no one else was (not to mention there is no particular reason to believe that Basso et al. would not dope under these conditions). I don't think there's any provable correlation between personality in that sense and one's motivation for doping.

Personally, I found it refreshing that when Ricco did test positive, he didn't try to claim that the test was a false positive (Hamilton, Heras, Landis), that the positive resulted from some extraneous contamination that was not his fault (Vino), that he was only considering doping but didn't actually do it (Basso), that he should be protected because of his country of origin (Valverde), and on and on and on. Lo and behold, he fessed up promptly and took his medicine. If it takes a Ricco-type to man up to a positive, I say, let's have more Riccos.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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Merckx index said:
<snip>

Personally, I found it refreshing that when Ricco did test positive, he didn't try to claim that the test was a false positive <snip>
he did. and he even rather arrogantly tried to dicredit the cera test as worthless by pointing how many tests it took to catch him.

i am not arguing with the premise of your post and yes ricco should be given his chance but it’s incorrect to say ricco did not deny doping or did not claim some crazy crap..

in fact, he not only denied immediately after being caught, he played cat and mouse games with the testers. according to the afld chief bordry, ricco tried to evade chaperones several times and had them resort to literally ambushing him.

he lied for as long as he could and broke down only when facing no nonsense coni prosecutors.
 
Merckx index said:
Lo and behold, he fessed up promptly and took his medicine. If it takes a Ricco-type to man up to a positive, I say, let's have more Riccos.
Didn't he have to fight in CAS to get his suspension reduced cos he only named some already-well-known doping docs and his testimony wasn't wholly believed?

It doesn't take a Riccò-type to man up to a positive. Jörg Jaksche, Thomas Frei and Emanuele Sella have "fessed up" and they haven't been total douchebags about it, nor were they already total douchebags beforehand.
 
Jun 21, 2009
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Squares said:
Personally, I like the attacking style of Vino/Ricco and will be very interested to watch next year when AC and Schrek are doing trackstands and Ricco blows them away because they are watching each other.
i was gonna say that you can't have been watching cycling for long if you consider contador a boring rider.

but then again LA is your favourite boy, so i guess you just didn't watch anything in the years 2006-2008?

contador vs chicken 2007, any bells ring at the sound of that?
btw how's it possible to be a LA fan and call an other rider boring?? wtf?
 
python said:
he did. and he even rather arrogantly tried to dicredit the cera test as worthless by pointing how many tests it took to catch him.

i am not arguing with the premise of your post and yes ricco should be given his chance but it’s incorrect to say ricco did not deny doping or did not claim some crazy crap..

in fact, he not only denied immediately after being caught, he played cat and mouse games with the testers. according to the afld chief bordry, ricco tried to evade chaperones several times and had them resort to literally ambushing him.

he lied for as long as he could and broke down only when facing no nonsense coni prosecutors.
He may not have confessed immediately--I stand corrected if I recall that wrongly--but he didn't drag out the proceedings the way the others did. You can't compare his reaction to that of Hamilton or Landis, or probably even Heras. He did confess after not too long. Neither Landis (about the testosterone) nor Tyler to this day has ever owned up about their positives, nor has Basso ever admitted blood doping. I don't believe Vino ever admitted blood doping, either. In my book, a confession, even if not immediately, even if under sustained pressure, counts for something. It saves everyone a lot of time, effort and money. Whatever hoops the prosecutors went through to get Ricco were trivial compared to the Landis and Hamilton cases.

Ricco was right about the problems with the CERA test, just as Millar was right when he said he took EPO numerous times without testing positive on that earlier version of the test. He was pointing out that it's possible to take CERA and test negative, certainly very valuable information for WADA to have.
 
Jan 19, 2010
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workingclasshero said:
but then again LA is your favourite boy,

btw how's it possible to be a LA fan and call an other rider boring?? wtf?
Please show me where/when I said LA was my favorite? I can't seem to find that post.

Perhaps that is how you perceive things: anyone who doesn't attack LA constantly means that Lance is their most favoritist bestest rider ever, but that is simply not the case.

It is, in fact, possible for someone to think that ALL the riders dope and that cleaning up the sport should be based on sound science and tight controls on chain of custody so that any adverse analytical finding could be held up in a court of law (beyond a reasonable doubt) rather than a battle of innuendo and rumors.

As for calling anyone but LA boring, please show me where I said anyone but Lance was boring?

You get way to personal.

Was the Contador Schreck battle on Tourmalet the most exciting thing you have ever seen?

I can think of many epic rides, like Contador/Chicken, Lance attacking Ullrich after the look, Flandis attacking from way out (if a doped Ricco and Vino can be enjoyed because of their attacking style, this has to rank up there with them).

Personally I am a fan of sprinters and to tell the truth, my favorite rider was Cippolini. I loved seeing the zebra train assemble at 10K to go, come to the front with 5K and blow every other team away. I get far more pumped watching a sprint at 55 kph with riders putting out 700 watts than seeing tiny guys go up a hill.
 
I enjoyed that in the CN article Ricco called the negotiations to sign with quickstep 'giving birth'. That further corroborates his lack of understanding of levels of actual pain, given his comment last year that women shouldn't race bikes because they can't deal with the pain.
 
Roland Rat said:
The difference IMO is that Vino (and Basso etc) seem to have doped only to keep up and in a clean environment would remain clean, whereas the likes of Ricco etc would see a clean peloton as easy pickings and would continue to juice to the gills. I may be wrong on the names, but there is a distinction there and I don't see it as hypocritical to accept the former when it is believed they are now clean, but not to accept the latter when it's unlikely he will ever be clean.

So now there are good dopers and bad dopers? Can someone make a list for me? I need to know when to get my hate on...
 
May 6, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
Didn't he have to fight in CAS to get his suspension reduced cos he only named some already-well-known doping docs and his testimony wasn't wholly believed?

It doesn't take a Riccò-type to man up to a positive. Jörg Jaksche, Thomas Frei and Emanuele Sella have "fessed up" and they haven't been total douchebags about it, nor were they already total douchebags beforehand.
I don't know about Frei, he just admitted he took EPO and how he did it. Never named names, suppliers etc., so I guess he was bound to the Omerta. I would say Jaksche and Sella co-operated more with the authorities.

My personal belief, if Armstrong, Basso, Klöden etc. are allowed to race, then so should Riccò.
 
Feb 25, 2010
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craig1985 said:
I don't know about Frei, he just admitted he took EPO and how he did it. Never named names, suppliers etc., so I guess he was bound to the Omerta. I would say Jaksche and Sella co-operated more with the authorities.

My personal belief, if Armstrong, Basso, Klöden etc. are allowed to race, then so should Riccò.
Is true, yet it's a shame omerta still rules:( According to Belgian newspaper 'De Standaard' it is now official, Ricco goes to Quick-step
 
May 6, 2009
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usedtobefast said:
i like bike racing,warts and all. i competed against doped guys and still beat them.
Either they were doing it wrong or you were on a more advanced super program :p
 
Jul 13, 2010
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craig1985 said:
Either they were doing it wrong or you were on a more advanced super program :p
I can say the same. I have beaten doped riders. It doesn't make them superhuman. Some of them don't train smart. Some of them don't have the talent. Dope doesn't make up for everything else. Of course, I've probably lost to people who would have been on my level if they weren't doping.
 

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