Richie Porte - what do we know about him?

[sittingbison]

To be fair the reason Yates was screaming in his ear was Froome had dropped Wiggo while trying to shed Nibali.

Froome being allowed to stick the knife in Sir Wiggos back and put Nibali to the sword at that stage of the day in the manner he was doing would have had the whole world sit up and say "DOPE CHEAT".

Hoisted on his own petard by going full ***

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Let's not forget about the brilliant strategy at the Olympic road race.

"Hey, let's all ride at the front and hope the dope holds out to the end." In the history of cunning plans that one did not even reach Baldrick level.

Anyone who uses a term like "tactical brilliance" and Team Sky in the same sentence should be perma-banned from cycling. JV must be jumping for joy since he can no longer be pointed to as the most tactically inept manager in the sport.

And the World's. Dumb as f*cking stumps...

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Last year's Tour was a complete farce. Frankly, I think that guys like Froome, Porte, and Wiggins are just stupid people. They're famous, to be sure, but dumb as rocks, which makes them useful tools to certain kinds of people.

Not to say that other teams aren't full of dopers, but what Sky are doing hasn't been seen since the US Postal and Once days, if then.

 

[martinvickers]

There's nothing tactically brilliant about it. It's all about watts, and nothing else. Sky has more watts and therefore they win. Tell me, what was the last team that was able to consistently put a stranglehold on the peloton in such a fashion? I'll give you one guess.

You misunderstand - it was catenaccio that was brilliant. The Skyborg is merely effective.

 

[martinvickers]

oh yeah just remembered the best illustration of my point which is Sky themselves on Morzine in the 2010 Tour. Hillarious stuff, they put all their riders on the front and Wiggins ended up getting paced by Lofqwist to finish 2 minutes back.

Exactly the same tactics they use now, and why it doesnt work unless 4 of your riders have pcm climbing 77 or higher.

Anyone who says Sky win because of tactics should be sent to some prison island where bikes are banned.

So the SkyTrain tactic has no effect whatsoever? Everything Nibali said about it was just poppycock?

God, I wish people would read what i actually wrote sometimes, rather than what they wished I'd written. I NEVER said the sky tactic was brillant. A radio guest described catenaccio as brilliant. for the love of god, man...

And i wish people would stop losing their rag just because Sky is being discussed. It simply doesn't make the discussion any better.

Honestly, I've seen mass murderers discussed more calmly than this!

 

[WildspokeJoe]

As I watched the final time trial of Paris-Nice one image that really brought things into perspective for me was one of the last ones I saw.

It was a side-by-side comparison of Porte and Talansky.

Talansky was struggling and fighting the bike all the way to the finish. He was all over the bike. Compare that to Porte who was smooth as ice as he crossed the finish line.

Porte took 21 seconds the first half of the race. By the finish it was the same exact time - 21 seconds. Most of racers improved over the second half of the race except the strongest rider in the race? That doesn't make sense to me.

I'm not saying the other teams are not doping. I just think Sky is just doing better than everyone else.

 

[BYOP88]

Brad phoned the car and told them to make sure Porte didn't beat his time from last year or else there would be no more gifts to his slaves for the rest of his Sky contract.

 

[martinvickers]

The football analogy is absolute crap because it suggests sky have an equal team to everyone else and win through tactics.

I don't think it does any such thing. no one is suggesting Juventus or Inter had the same quality as say Lecce. THe point, regardless of strength, was that the tactic was A) Boring and B) Very Effective. Of course it required top quality players, but that does not nullify A and B.

A better analogy would be that Sky are like Manchester United (with **** tactics) and everyone else is like Wigan

There's an element of truth to that - but Man Utd, tactically, have never been impregnable, they've always played a riskier, winger based game - which Barcelona, through tactical insight tore apart in their first final. Remember this was when Ronaldo was still with Man Utd. Barcelona simply choked the life out of them.

"the press" by Barcelona just tore apart Milan 4-0. Yes, they have great players - but they have a very, very clear and successful tactical style too, which their entire club employs from boys upwards.

The tactics themselves arent even that great.

They work pretty well.

people act like sky invented the concept of a train. Where is the tactical brilliance in it?

I repeat, it works. Brilliance is not defined by ingenuity, but by success. I never claimed they were innovative. They have now podiumed in each of the first three World tour races of the season, and won another major showdown in Oman. sorry, it's boring as sh!t, but it works.

Instead Sky choose the least succesful strategy of the lot and we hear about how genius it is.

The strategy has got them a tour within three years, a runner up, a vuelta runner up, a third and a fourth. It won them every major stage race wiggins entered in 2012. A lot of teams might suggest that is not exactly the 'least successful strategy'

Can any other team currently match those results - christ, i thought a huge part of the doping accusations were because they were so dominant - are you now telling us that in fact they weren't dominant at all?

In the TDF they could have had Michael Rogers fighting Nibali for the final podium spot if they wanted to.

Why bother? Why dilute resources 0.01 % for that? they had 1 and 2 for crying our loud - that's happened what, twice, in the last twenty years?

 

[martinvickers]

I think the point has been made now but if Sky were tactically brilliant then maybe they would have won more one-day races which is where tactics come into it more. Unless the tactical brilliance is to really specialise in one tactic that has won a GT for them

Exactly, Frosty. And they made no secret of it - i think this is the first year they've put anything like as much resource into the classics - we'll see how that goes...

Repeat - Brilliance isn't always about innovation...

 

[The Hitch]

God, I wish people would read what i actually wrote sometimes, rather than what they wished I'd written. I NEVER said the sky tactic was brillant. A radio guest described catenaccio as brilliant. for the love of god, man...

!

?

You said some airhead siad Skys tactics are brilliant

I heard a reporter on the radio recently describe it as being like catenaccio. Boring, ultra-defensive, ultra-regimented and , ultimately, tactically brilliant.

And i responded that they are not brilliant, which they arent.

So your complaint-that I am misquoting you is confusing. What gave you the impression that i was attributing those comments to you?

Even in the post you quoted I clearly was not reffering to you but to a vague and general - anybody

Anyone who says Sky win because of tactics should be sent to some prison island where bikes are banned.

So the SkyTrain tactic has no effect whatsoever? Everything Nibali said about it was just poppycock?

Its no more a tactic than - put the ball in the goal, is a tactic.

 

[BYOP88]

They better hope it doesn't rain from now until the end of April in Europe, oh and they wear the right rain coats. #marginalgains!

 

[The Hitch]

"the press" by Barcelona just tore apart Milan 4-0. Yes, they have great players - but they have a very, very clear and successful tactical style too, which their entire club employs from boys upwards.



They work pretty well.



I repeat, it works. Brilliance is not defined by ingenuity, but by success. I never claimed they were innovative. They have now podiumed in each of the first three World tour races of the season, and won another major showdown in Oman. sorry, it's boring as sh!t, but it works.

Do you even understand the word tactics? Was it tactics that dropped all of Contadors and Nibalis domestiques on Friday and left Sky with 3 of theirs? Or was it the fact that Skys 3 domestiques were lightyears better than all of Contadors and Nibalis domestiques, meaning they could continue to set out the pace long after everyone else had hit the red?

By your standards, Usain Bolt is a real tactical genius. He waits till he hears the gun, then runs as fast as he can

"tactics are judged by success" - he wins everytime, ergo tactical genius.

 

[Weapons of @ss Destruction]

Its no more a tactic than - put the ball in the goal, is a tactic.

Hitch ^^^ FTW

 

[BYOP88]

Imagine how fast he could run if he had a few guys ahead of him in his lane. Or maybe he should wear a hearing aid and get those few hundreds of a second advantage over the other guys who don't have enhanced hearing.

 

[sittingbison]

...Of course it required top quality players...Man Utd, tactically, have never been impregnable, they've always played a riskier, winger based game - which Barcelona, through tactical insight tore apart in their first final. Remember this was when Ronaldo was still with Man Utd. Barcelona simply choked the life out of them...."the press" by Barcelona just tore apart Milan 4-0. Yes, they have great players - but they have a very, very clear and successful tactical style too, which their entire club employs from boys upwards.

The season before ManU destroyed Barca in the semi.

Anyway, back to the point. Barca (and Spain) can only employ this "choking the life out of them" or "tearing apart" very, very clear and successful tactical style because all their players even (those boys you mentioned) are juiced to the eyeballs. It is simply impossible to maintain the tempo they set without being on endurance and speed increasing PEDS.

Which we know they all are due to findings (and closure) of Operacion Puerto and Feuntes testimony. And the rest of the football world is starting to complain about it....see various comments made during the Fuentes trial.

 

[thehog]

I think the point has been made now but if Sky were tactically brilliant then maybe they would have won more one-day races which is where tactics come into it more. Unless the tactical brilliance is to really specialise in one tactic that has won a GT for them

Watch from 55mins onwards: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsOu76F7E7c&sns=em

Prior to that Sky put all their guys on the front for the first 100km.

Sky blow up due to the climb and weather and Sagan, Nibili attack on the decent.

Froome decends like concrete, game over. He really he thick tactically. But I also think Sky would have said put our guys on the front from km 0 and ride the dawg to the end.

Do they have any other tactic?

 

[martinvickers]

The season before ManU destroyed Barca in the semi.

I'm not sure anybody could sensibly claim 0-0,1-0 over two legs is 'destroyed' - Scholesy scored a screamer, and they defended like trojans. Tactically sound, actually - but no comparison to the 2-0 the following year - MU were lucky to score 0

 

[martinvickers]

Do you even understand the word tactics? Was it tactics that dropped all of Contadors and Nibalis domestiques on Friday and left Sky with 3 of theirs? Or was it the fact that Skys 3 domestiques were lightyears better than all of Contadors and Nibalis domestiques, meaning they could continue to set out the pace long after everyone else had hit the red?

Both, obviously. Power is nothing without control, as the boys from Perelli might say.

By your standards, Usain Bolt is a real tactical genius. He waits till he hears the gun, then runs as fast as he can

"tactics are judged by success" - he wins everytime, ergo tactical genius.

Just a silly comparison. Better comparison would be long distance runners - do they use tactics, do you think?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Its no more a tactic than - put the ball in the goal, is a tactic.

This tactic is a well kept secret in most soccer games the world 'round. Tis why I find it as boring as a GT won by Sky.

 

[Blakeslee]

What makes me uncomfortable watching Porte's performance is the margin of victory. For second place on down most of the riders are separated by a small amount of seconds between each rider, then there is a relatively huge gap between Porte and the next rider. Reminds me of the tour last year where Froome and Wiggins were on another level than the rest of the field, those big jumps make me suspicious.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

This tactic is a well kept secret in most soccer games the world 'round. Tis why I find it as boring as a GT won by Sky.

LMAO. I love this one. Long time ago i posted. But this one had to be appreciated by me.

On topic: We know about Porte that he finished GT-T-10 before coming to Sky. He is no more suspicious than all those Armstrong defending liars from spain (speak AC, SS, Indurain and all the other basterds from dope heaven spain).

 

[delbified]

these threads are extremely generic and boring.

rider X wins race by > margin of Y.
rider X is suspected of doping, as it's unlikely a clean rider would be spanking dirty riders, and we know there are almost certainly dirty riders.
rider X has connections with doping identities A, B, C, etc.
rider X denies doping, drawing further comparisons with a long list of riders previously found guilty of doping who also denied doping.
rider X didn't look tired enough after a 10km time trial, an indication of doping as everyone knows that when you're doping you can win easily without trying hard.

QED rider X is a doper.

the problem is, anyone who wins a race by > margin of Y and who doesn't slump over their handlebars (like stephen roche at La Plagne... oh, wait) afterwards will meet those criteria. it doesn't mean they're clean, but it's not proof of anything either.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

LMAO. I love this one. Long time ago i posted. But this one had to be appreciated by me.

On topic: We know about Porte that he finished GT-T-10 before coming to Sky. He is no more suspicious than all those Armstrong defending liars from spain (speak AC, SS, Indurain and all the other basterds from dope heaven spain).

There are a lot of dopers in Spain, no question. The issue becomes how come a bunch of squeaky clean riders can suddenly drop these well known dopers in just about any race they enter.

Porte almost broke the record in the final TT in P-N, taking it easy on the last part of the course while smiling and lifting his arms as he crossed the line.

We have to go back to the Armstrong days to see similar domination.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

There are a lot of dopers in Spain, no question. The issue becomes how come a bunch of squeaky clean riders can suddenly drop these well known dopers in just about any race they enter.

Porte almost broke the record in the final TT in P-N, taking it easy on the last part of the course while smiling and lifting his arms as he crossed the line.

We have to go back to the Armstrong days to see similar domination.

It seems a myth to me. They lost the Vuelta, "dominated"* the TdF, were no shows at the Giro last year. BTW, they didn´t win P-N this year...

* we shall remember they had T-20 riders (performed with other teams than Sky) in the line up en mass; Porte, Wiggins, Knees, Rogers. Plus they had EBH and a still young Froome.

Like in any other sports, the good teams beat the bad. And when AC came back, the "domination" of Sky was gone.

I know this should belong in the Sky thread (where i´ll copy it into too), and i say it again: Sky isn´t dirtier than any other pro team.

And Froome is a good rider. When he "exploded" (in 2011) he was still young. Unlike the Armstrongs, Zülles, Romingers and Rijs of this world.

Porte and Froome are no more suspicious than any other top riders (especially those liars and ignorants from spain).

 

[Dazed and Confused]

It seems a myth to me. They lost the Vuelta, "dominated"* the TdF, were no shows at the Giro last year. BTW, they didn´t win P-N this year...

* we shall remember they had T-20 riders (performed with other teams than Sky) in the line up en mass; Porte, Wiggins, Knees, Rogers. Plus they had EBH and a still young Froome.

Like in any other sports, the good teams beat the bad. And when AC came back, the "domination" of Sky was gone.

I know this should belong in the Sky thread (where i´ll copy it into too), and i say it again: Sky isn´t dirtier than any other pro team.

And Froome is a good rider. When he "exploded" (in 2011) he was still young. Unlike the Armstrongs, Zülles, Romingers and Rijs of this world.

Porte and Froome are no more suspicious than any other top riders (especially those liars and ignorants from spain).

US Postal only dominated one race: The Tour. UK Postal is domination many races, even simultaneously.

So now we have to wait for youngster to hit 26 years before we see any "real" talent. Now that sounds like a myth to me.