Rider Affidavits: How Much Truth?

[131313]

So, I spent last night doing some pleasure reading, going through the rider affidavits. I have to say, I have some very mixed feelings. I realize everyone is ecstatic that the schoolyard bully finally got his comeuppance, but there are some things in there which require a massive leap of faith...I leap I'm not willing to make; things such as the following:

-Rick Crawford was doping up Levi in '99, but not Tom Danielson 3-4 years later, when he underwent his amazing transformation?

-Levi went on to get some of the best results in his career after quitting dope?

-Zabriski didn't dope on CSC (reading his affidavit, I can almost believe this one)

The story of LL in particular just isn't believable. He willingly went back to a team whom he knew was overrun with an institutional doping program, only to not dope? Seriously?? That, along with his "I'm sorry I had no other choice" nonsense tell me all I need to know. I'm hoping someone starts asking some hard questions of that guy.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

I think this goes for a lot of people. Hincapie too, who apparently saw the light in 2006.

I suspect that USADA knew this to be the case but in the scheme of things this was a case about Armstrong and USP/Disco/Astana/RS, rather than a case about Rabo, or HTC

I suspect that a lot of the riders were brought kicking and screaming to their confessions and I certainly don't think they included everything.

 

[Benotti69]

I guess that USADA was really only interested in their USPS time.

I dont believe Hincapie stopped in 2006. He has ridden impressively for his age.

Leipheimer defo lying.

The others meh, JV's crew are going to go as close to the line as they can to make it look a believable. but to me they are lying.

Barry, liar.


I suppose they could also be called back by USADA to answer more questions. But i thik they got treated leniently for helping bring down the greatest sporting fraud in the history of sport.

Do they deserve thanks for that, no, they helped the p-rick get to where he shouldn't have gotten too. A lot of people suffered by allowing the insufferable sociopathic ****** win so much and laud it over everyone.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Can someone outline what exactly is inherently unbelievable about Zabriskie not being doped on CSC? Other than the obvious fact that doping went on at that team.

His affidavit strikes me as one of the strongest of the bunch.

 

[red_flanders]

Can someone outline what exactly is inherently unbelievable about Zabriskie not being doped on CSC? Other than the obvious fact that doping went on at that team.

His affidavit strikes me as one of the strongest of the bunch.

I had the same reaction.

Also concur about Leipheimer, but that's not really going out on a limb. Tend to believe Hincapie as well based on his results, but I would have guessed 2008.

 

[shalgo]

Where exactly in his affidavit does Leipheimer unequivocally say that he stopped doping at any particular time? I think he is being careful in his wording to create that impression without actually saying it--unless I missed the relevant quote.

EDIT: I see now that he says he has been "racing clean" for 5 years in his WSJ op-ed.

 

[tofino]

Grand jury questions

I think USADA was able to catch out the riders based on what they said in the grand jury. Tygart has said the feds sat in on the questions when USADA asked them.

The grand jury didn't really care about non USPS time frame. So no questions about earlier or later doping.

 

[roundabout]

Zabriskie at CSC:

2007 Dauphine.2006 Worlds. 2005 Tour ITT (?). Occasional ride in the mountains.

It's a shame that he didn't have injury-free seasons at Postal, so it's difficult to compare "clean" vs doped.

 

[mastersracer]

Can someone outline what exactly is inherently unbelievable about Zabriskie not being doped on CSC? Other than the obvious fact that doping went on at that team.

His affidavit strikes me as one of the strongest of the bunch.

his results have been voided through July 31, 2006 - so include 2 years at CSC. I recall somewhere he states he doped on and off at CSC.

edit: paragraph 58 of his affadavit

 

[RhodriM]

I want to believe DZ's, but this is mainly because I like him. Which might be a bit naive/hopeful.

 

[Red Lobster]

Can someone outline what exactly is inherently unbelievable about Zabriskie not being doped on CSC? Other than the obvious fact that doping went on at that team.

His affidavit strikes me as one of the strongest of the bunch.

Yeah, the affidavits/confessions fall on a continuum, with Zabriskie being at the "accurate in all material respects" end, and Leiphiemer being at the "what's the bad smell emanating from this thing" end.

 

[131313]

I had the same reaction.

Also concur about Leipheimer, but that's not really going out on a limb. Tend to believe Hincapie as well based on his results, but I would have guessed 2008.

Yeah, I have mixed feelings on Zabriski. Knowing that Riis supported institutional doping within the team would be the biggest reason that it's hard to believe, but he does come off differently than the others. Long ago, Zacijek accused him of doping as a junior at the OTC, but that was to save his own behind on some now-defunct website that outed domestic dopers. Other teammates after that time said he was a straight shooter, and it's not like Zajicek has any credibility, so who knows.

I definitely don't believe LL or Danielson, and while I'm willing to believe Hincapie stopped doping, I find it hard to believe he stopped doping while still on a Bruyneel-run team?

 

[Catwhoorg]

I would say the affidavits are the truth, and nothing but the truth

I sincerely doubt they are the whole truth in some cases

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

his results have been voided through July 31, 2006 - so include 2 years at CSC. I recall somewhere he states he doped on and off at CSC.

edit: paragraph 58 of his affadavit

Ah, yes, you are right. This whole bit of the conversation is based on a misapprehension.

Zabriskie says in his affidavit that he did dope, sporadically, up until mid 2006. Which means he says that he did dope on CSC. Which means that there's nothing obviously incredible about his statement.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

So, I spent last night doing some pleasure reading, going through the rider affidavits. I have to say, I have some very mixed feelings. I realize everyone is ecstatic that the schoolyard bully finally got his comeuppance, but there are some things in there which require a massive leap of faith...I leap I'm not willing to make; things such as the following:

-Rick Crawford was doping up Levi in '99, but not Tom Danielson 3-4 years later, when he underwent his amazing transformation?

-Levi went on to get some of the best results in his career after quitting dope?

-Zabriski didn't dope on CSC (reading his affidavit, I can almost believe this one)

The story of LL in particular just isn't believable. He willingly went back to a team whom he knew was overrun with an institutional doping program, only to not dope? Seriously?? That, along with his "I'm sorry I had no other choice" nonsense tell me all I need to know. I'm hoping someone starts asking some hard questions of that guy.

Tilford singles out LL too. I have to question how it is that almost everyone quit in magic year of 2006. Sure, it coincides with the "Sorry you don't believe in miracles" retirement speech by Wonderboy, but they all kept on riding. Sorry, but I find much amusement in the proclamations also.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Zabriskie is the most believable of the bunch.

Other athletes confirmed Zabriskie’s account that Zabriskie felt severe guilt over using drugs and entertained the thought that somehow serious, life threatening, crashes he experienced in 2003 and 2004 were punishment for breaking his vow made as a youth to never use drugs.

And Floyd told him it was unfair that he doped less than the others, or something to that effect. Wouldn't be very smart to lie about since Floyd could debunk it.

 

[hrotha]

I definitely have trouble believing so many people magically saw the light in 2006. Danielson being clean at Saturn and Fassa and Leipheimer getting off the juice for the first time since getting to the elite in 2008 upon joining Astana are particularly unbelievable, IMO (and hey, no mention of Levi's 1996 positive?).

Most of them admitted to what they knew USADA already knew. And to nothing else.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

The bit that I didn't understand from LL was:

I am the best American rider in GTs behind Lance Armstrong and Greg Lemond.

As for the wording post 2006 - very JV.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

I found the omission of LL's 1996 positive interesting.

 

[Sarcastic Wet Trout]

I would say the affidavits are the truth, and nothing but the truth

I sincerely doubt they are the whole truth in some cases

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner.

The USADA was investigating Lance.

 

[131313]

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner.

The USADA was investigating Lance.

really? I thought the purpose of the investigation was to further the promise of clean competition but investigating a ring of people actively involved in doping? If the singular goal was to bring down Armstrong, then the entire thing was a colossal waste of time, IMO.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Levi being clean for more than 5 yrs is unbelievable.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

really? I thought the purpose of the investigation was to further the promise of clean competition but investigating a ring of people actively involved in doping? If the singular goal was to bring down Armstrong, then the entire thing was a colossal waste of time, IMO.

Nah mate, USADA's mission is this: http://cyclinginvestigation.usada.org/

Our mission is to protect clean athletes by preserving the integrity of competition not only for today’s athletes but also the athletes of tomorrow. We have heard from many athletes who have faced an unfair dilemma — dope, or don’t compete at the highest levels of the sport. Many of them abandoned their dreams and left sport because they refused to endanger their health and participate in doping. That is a tragic choice no athlete should have to make.

oh wait.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

The opening letter was a bit tl;dr, but now that I am reading it, I feel a little ill...

It took tremendous courage for the riders on the USPS Team and others to come forward and speak truthfully. It is not easy to admit your mistakes and accept your punishment. But that is what these riders have done for the good of the sport, and for the young riders who hope to one day reach their dreams without using dangerous drugs or methods.

1. Courage? 6 months ban was the punishment.
2. truthfully? not the whole truth, backsides covered from 2006 onwards.
3. punishment *cough*
4. Lance gone = good for the sport? Sorry but I disagree, he was already gone. Young riders adulate Lance still - Talansky and Dowsett are classic examples. Trek-Livestrong is still here, right?

I have personally talked with and heard these athletes’ stories and firmly believe that, collectively, these athletes, if forgiven and embraced, have a chance to leave a legacy far greater for the good of the sport than anything they ever did on a bike.

JV, Brailsford, Tygart. All speaking from the same playbook. At least he didn't mention "looking them in the eye".

Nothing to see here, move along.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

USADA didn't really have much of a choice against a huge web of corruption. No way on their shoe string budget and against many very popular riders could they have taken down the UCI, Lance and given two year bans to all these riders as well as wiping away their accomplishments.