Rider Affidavits: How Much Truth?

[Briant_Gumble]

The opening letter was a bit tl;dr, but now that I am reading it, I feel a little ill...


1. Courage? 6 months ban was the punishment.
2. truthfully? not the whole truth, backsides covered from 2006 onwards.
3. punishment *cough*
4. Lance gone = good for the sport? Sorry but I disagree, he was already gone. Young riders adulate Lance still - Talansky and Dowsett are classic examples. Trek-Livestrong is still here, right?



JV, Brailsford, Tygart. All speaking from the same playbook. At least he didn't mention "looking them in the eye".

Nothing to see here, move along.

Have you ever received a death threat not just against you but your whole family? I haven't so I can only imagine how bad it must feel.

Tygart would be about as popular as Scrooge on a Christmas morning if he castigated Hincapie, the bit you highlight I agree is effusive but they did a decent job.

 

[ElChingon]

I agree much post USPS/Disco info is lacking and leaves one to speculate on them even more. Like Vaughters quote that Tommy D was using O2 vector whatever when he was first on Garmin.

Still though this is only the tip of the ice berg. When are they going to then dig up the info on the suppliers? The dope was not some cheap stuff you could get at some street corner, the money trail goes somewhere that ends at a dope peddler of some sorts. Don't tell me they are stopping here!

 

[Catwhoorg]

1. Courage? 6 months ban was the punishment.

Plus loss of results (and prize money) from the time frame in their respective admissions.

 

[frenchfry]

Where exactly in his affidavit does Leipheimer unequivocally say that he stopped doping at any particular time? I think he is being careful in his wording to create that impression without actually saying it--unless I missed the relevant quote.

EDIT: I see now that he says he has been "racing clean" for 5 years in his WSJ op-ed.

Lots of 20 minute showers could explain this.

Levi is another serial doper and is adept at the lies. No way he was clean at Radio Shack, Bruyneel wouldn't have let him.

 

[skidmark]

Where exactly in his affidavit does Leipheimer unequivocally say that he stopped doping at any particular time? I think he is being careful in his wording to create that impression without actually saying it--unless I missed the relevant quote.

EDIT: I see now that he says he has been "racing clean" for 5 years in his WSJ op-ed.

I wonder if his 'racing clean' means that he's just on 'pan y agua'...

That was maybe my favourite part of all the affidavits, Johan telling Levi 'you are the real winner' of the Vuelta because he wasn't on as sophisticated a doping program as the 2 guys who finished ahead of him, or telling CVV (right? going by memory) that he was on 'bread and water' because he was just using EPO and not transfusions.

Regardless, yeah it did take some courage to speak openly about that stuff. I mean, I am certain that GH and LL wouldn't have come forward if the Grand Jury hadn't scared them enough to do so, and I'm sure they wouldn't have spoken to USADA if the Grand Jury hadn't gotten their testimony first (I actually wonder if they understood that USADA wasn't going to use the GJ testimony when they spoke to them?). But - almost everyone who talked still wants a future in cycling, if not as a rider. Levi is actually in a particularly vulnerable position, as Hincapie and Barry are retired, DZ, CVV and Tommy D are on a team that is supportive of them speaking out and will still hire them, but Levi is all of a sudden a low level Jasckhe (god how do you spell that name?) I'm actually curious what happens to him, there hasn't been a good history of riders who actually provide details about people still in the sport getting a ride with a team that's not Garmin (or continental). So we might have the ironic situation where Levi, who almost painfully obviously omitted talking about doping before and after the timeframe of concern, might be blacklisted because he said too much.

 

[frenchfry]

Yeah, I have mixed feelings on Zabriski. Knowing that Riis supported institutional doping within the team would be the biggest reason that it's hard to believe, but he does come off differently than the others. Long ago, Zacijek accused him of doping as a junior at the OTC, but that was to save his own behind on some now-defunct website that outed domestic dopers. Other teammates after that time said he was a straight shooter, and it's not like Zajicek has any credibility, so who knows.

I definitely don't believe LL or Danielson, and while I'm willing to believe Hincapie stopped doping, I find it hard to believe he stopped doping while still on a Bruyneel-run team?

Hincapie was being touted to replace Lance as GC contender in 2006 based on his previous mountain goat performances. Doubtful that he would have changed doping programs before, especially as he seemed to be more than comfortable with doping up to then. My guess is that he never stopped, like Levi.

 

[ElChingon]

Then what does it say about the current RadioShack "A" team at le Tour? Some additional big names to fall, besides Frank.

 

[Wicklow200]

Bruyneel stealing VdVelde's cortisone

Anyone understand why Bruyneel did this

Line 102 from the Vandevelde affadavit, to the effect that VdV crashed out of the 2001 TdF. Dr. Moral came to him after the crash with cortisone and told him to take half an ampule now, half later. Johan was present however and he took the other half and injected himself right there and then

 

[roundabout]

Hog felt that Vandevelde was responsible for the crash in the TTT?

That would be my best guess.

 

[GJB123]

I would say the affidavits are the truth, and nothing but the truth

I sincerely doubt they are the whole truth in some cases

Spot on. THey haven't lied when asked questions under oath, me thinks, but they haven't volunteered the truth when not asked about it.That seems about right.

 

[Lukenwolf]

I'm about as sceptic about their claims to have stopped doping after 2006 as the next guy, but I'm willing to believe, that they scaled it back once Il Duce was out the door after 2005. I mean, during the worst USPS times they seem to have used everything this side of Agent Orange. Doping less than before is still doping, but I tend to think a little step in the right direction is better that staying put.

What really peaked my interest was Exhibit J of Frankie Andreu's affidavit (downloadable here -> http://cyclinginvestigation.usada.org/) - an IM or SMS conversation with Vaughters, especially this passage:

Cyclevaughters: i suppose - you know he tried to hire me back in 2001... he was nice to me... i just couldn't deal with that whole world
FDREU: I did not know that
FDREU: look at why everyone leaves, it's way to controlling
Cyclevaughters: once I went to CA and saw that now all the teams got 25 injections every day, i felt really guilty
Cyclevaughters: hell, CA was ZERO
FDREU: you mean all the riders
Cyclevaughters: Credit Agricole
FDREU: it's crazy
Cyclevaughters: So, I realized lance was full of **** when he'd say everyone was doing it
FDREU: You may read stuff that i say to radio or press, praising the Tour and lance but it's just playing the game
Cyclevaughters: believe me, as carzy as it sounds - Moreau was on nothing. Hct of 39%
FDREU: when in 2000-2001
Cyclevaughters: so, that's when you start thinking... hell, kevin was telling me that after 2000 Ullrich never raced over 42%--- yeah moreau in 2000-2001
Cyclevaughters: anyhow - whtever
FDREU: After 1999, you know many things changed. lance did not

That has some interesting bits of info in it:

First of all, after 1999 several riders seem to start second-guessing their practices to the point that they exchanged results for a clear conscience. How often were French drivers blasted for their lack of results at that time? In the case of Moreau, we now know why. Although what confuses me is, that Moreau only joined CA after 2001. So could he be the first recorded instance of a clean Festina rider?
The bit about Ullrich is noteworthy, too. If he never raced about 42% Hct after 2000, it would indicate that he had scaled back his doping quite substantially and that shines quite a new light on his performances against a bunch of riders all going at a carefully maintained 49.999999999% Hct.
Good to see that, even though they did the juice, some riders did seem to have at least the decency to not feel good about it.

 

[Frosty]

CA do seem to have been cleaner although Vaughters still did some doping. How does JV know for sure that Moreau only had a HCT of 39%? Maybe its just what he was told. Similar with Ullrich - maybe T-mobile were a bit suspicious of Kevin coming across from US Postal and tried to make sure he didnt know anything about whatever was going on?