Rio 2016 Olympic Road Race and Time Trial courses

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Adam Yates, Chris Froome, Geraint Thomas, Peter Kennaugh& Ian Stannard apparently make up GB.

The absence of Cummings is highly questionable. Stannard is not necessary imo, Thomas and Kennaugh are good enough domestiques.

When has Cummings ever worked for another rider. He's a solo rider in a team sport.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

The rio road race won't be a stage hunters race so imo it's a good idea to leave Cummings home. Cummings is a rider who rides at the back of the bunch a few days and then gets in the breakaway on day 5 or in a GT after 10 days and brings the victory home.

Rio road race will be a race with everyone fresh and " everyone" willing to win. Nomchance for Cummings and he's not a domestique rider as well.

Agree, Cummings would be a wasted spot. He can beat a tired field when he's essentially been resting, but he's got no chance of winning here and wouldn't be much use as a domestique either.

I wonder who will be the protected rider for GB, or whether it will be a fluid situation depending on how hard it is raced. Yates and Thomas seem the logical choices, but presumably Froome won't be going just to set a nice tempo on the climb.

Everything will be Froome as it should be. At least A.Yates will see how it will be if he is silly enough to move to Sky.

 

[Geraint Too Fast]

Re: Re:

Adam Yates, Chris Froome, Geraint Thomas, Peter Kennaugh& Ian Stannard apparently make up GB.

The absence of Cummings is highly questionable. Stannard is not necessary imo, Thomas and Kennaugh are good enough domestiques.

When has Cummings ever worked for another rider. He's a solo rider in a team sport.

This is just wrong.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

Adam Yates, Chris Froome, Geraint Thomas, Peter Kennaugh& Ian Stannard apparently make up GB.

Kennaugh & Stannard ??///Too many high climbs for Stannard and too long for Kennaugh

Should be Cummings & Swift imo

They're coming as a workhorses, GB is going to ride the only way they know, working all day for Froome And Stannard and Kennaugh are much better workers then Swift and Cummings

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

The rio road race won't be a stage hunters race so imo it's a good idea to leave Cummings home. Cummings is a rider who rides at the back of the bunch a few days and then gets in the breakaway on day 5 or in a GT after 10 days and brings the victory home.

Rio road race will be a race with everyone fresh and " everyone" willing to win. Nomchance for Cummings and he's not a domestique rider as well.

Agree, Cummings would be a wasted spot. He can beat a tired field when he's essentially been resting, but he's got no chance of winning here and wouldn't be much use as a domestique either.

I wonder who will be the protected rider for GB, or whether it will be a fluid situation depending on how hard it is raced. Yates and Thomas seem the logical choices, but presumably Froome won't be going just to set a nice tempo on the climb.

Everything will be Froome as it should be. At least A.Yates will see how it will be if he is silly enough to move to Sky.

Shouldn't you give outright leadership to riders that have actually won presitgious one-day races in their career? Yates should at least be given a free role, as it's difficult to see how a one dimensional rider like Froome could actually win.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

The rio road race won't be a stage hunters race so imo it's a good idea to leave Cummings home. Cummings is a rider who rides at the back of the bunch a few days and then gets in the breakaway on day 5 or in a GT after 10 days and brings the victory home.

Rio road race will be a race with everyone fresh and " everyone" willing to win. Nomchance for Cummings and he's not a domestique rider as well.

Agree, Cummings would be a wasted spot. He can beat a tired field when he's essentially been resting, but he's got no chance of winning here and wouldn't be much use as a domestique either.

I wonder who will be the protected rider for GB, or whether it will be a fluid situation depending on how hard it is raced. Yates and Thomas seem the logical choices, but presumably Froome won't be going just to set a nice tempo on the climb.

Everything will be Froome as it should be. At least A.Yates will see how it will be if he is silly enough to move to Sky.

Shouldn't you give outright leadership to riders that have actually won presitgious one-day races in their career? Yates should at least be given a free role, as it's difficult to see how a one dimensional rider like Froome could actually win.

I agree on Yates, but not on Froome. He can win alright, just like Contador and Quintana, but it will be very hard. The race has to be very selective for him to win, and he has to ride tactically flawless. He could win from a small group sprint also, if Valverde isn't around. He proved many times that he's faster the Contador, Quintana and other fellow climbers.

 

[damian13ster]

The only questionable choice here is not taking Swift in case race is easy (he is pretty decent at setting tempo too), but this lineup is far from shocking. I would give A. Yates a free role though.

Wouldn't take S. Yates after disqualification.


Froome has better chance of winning than Quintana or Contador. Second only to Nibali among top 4

 

[DFA123]

Re:

The only questionable choice here is not taking Swift in case race is easy (he is pretty decent at setting tempo too), but this lineup is far from shocking. I would give A. Yates a free role though.

Wouldn't take S. Yates after disqualification.


Froome has better chance of winning than Quintana or Contador. Second only to Nibali among top 4

Sure, but that's only because Contador and Quintana have almost no chance. The question is whether Froome has more chance than Adam Yates - a rider who has actually won a prestigious hilly classic against a high quality field within the last year. Froome and a bunch of pure climbers who can't sprint are not going to drop all of the likes of Valverde, Costa and Martin - and stay away from them on a course like this.

 

[damian13ster]

Well, what particular skill A. Yates has that can make him compete against riders like Valverde? I think he should be protected and then put in random attack hoping he gets underestimated. If it will come down to pure strength/sprint then he doesn't really have a chance. Plus the roster looks to be made to make the race hard which is smart IMHO, as it will work for both Froome and Yates

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Well, what particular skill A. Yates has that can make him compete against riders like Valverde? I think he should be protected and then put in random attack hoping he gets underestimated. If it will come down to pure strength/sprint then he doesn't really have a chance. Plus the roster looks to be made to make the race hard which is smart IMHO, as it will work for both Froome and Yates

Eh? He beat Valverde and loads of other top riders in a similar race last year.

 

[damian13ster]

I know, saw that race. If I remember correctly though it was because of well timed attack rather than pure strength/sprint IMHO. I think he should be protected rider with freedom to attack, wouldn't choose him as a leader over Froome though.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

I know, saw that race. If I remember correctly though it was because of well timed attack rather than pure strength/sprint IMHO. I think he should be protected rider with freedom to attack, wouldn't choose him as a leader over Froome though.

I saw the race as well, and am still to this day none the wiser as to what happened on that final climb But he managed to win somehow, by getting a jump on a world class field and holding them off until the finish. I just can't see Froome ever being able to do that in a one day race.

 

[peloton]

Rio route sounds tailor made for rides like Valverde, DMartin etc. Riders who can climb, descend and sprint

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re:

Adam Yates, Chris Froome, Geraint Thomas, Peter Kennaugh& Ian Stannard apparently make up GB.

As expected, this is the confirmed GB line-up.

 

[May0maniac]

Phinney and Bookwalter will both ride the ITT and the RR, thats not that great, but with both Talansky and TJVG withdrawing from consideration the race it's understandable.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/usa-cycling-announces-discretionary-picks-for-olympic-road-teams/
On the bright side we could see both of them at the Tour of Utah, that would be interesting and a pretty big deal for the Tour of Utah.

 

[Anderis]

Re:

Phinney and Bookwalter will both ride the ITT and the RR, thats not that great, but with both Talansky and TJVG withdrawing from consideration the race it's understandable.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/usa-cycling-announces-discretionary-picks-for-olympic-road-teams/
On the bright side we could see both of them at the Tour of Utah, that would be interesting and a pretty big deal for the Tour of Utah.

Howes is apparently very unhappy about not getting the spot:
http://cyclingtips.com/2016/06/how-a-crushed-howes-missed-the-u-s-olympic-team/

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

The Olympics' insistence that the TT picks must also be among the RR picks is purely based on logistical convenience and makes no sporting sense. There are quite a few riders who deserve a chance to be at the Olympics who won't get to compete because of it.

 

[togo95]

Re: Re:

The Olympics' insistence that the TT picks must also be among the RR picks is purely based on logistical convenience and makes no sporting sense. There are quite a few riders who deserve a chance to be at the Olympics who won't get to compete because of it.

I think UCI is pressured to keep the number of participants as low as possible and if this rule wasn't in place, we could see even lower number of riders per nation in the RR imo.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

The Olympics' insistence that the TT picks must also be among the RR picks is purely based on logistical convenience and makes no sporting sense. There are quite a few riders who deserve a chance to be at the Olympics who won't get to compete because of it.

I think UCI is pressured to keep the number of participants as low as possible and if this rule wasn't in place, we could see even lower number of riders per nation in the RR imo.

Yes, that would be an even worse way to deal with the same logistical pressure.

My own preference would be to reduce the number of road race slots given to the stronger nations. It is objectively very unfair that some contenders get relatively big teams of support riders while equally good contenders get smaller teams or none at all. It creates an inbuilt advantage for riders from stronger nations. Yes that would mean that riders from cycling powers would find it harder to be selected, but harder selection for non-contenders would be a lesser evil than rigging things in favour of some contenders for actual medals. Contenders from strong nations would still have the advantage of having on average stronger domestiques, but that's unavoidable while different team sizes drastically increases that advantage for no good reason.

 

[togo95]

Re: Re:

My own preference would be to reduce the number of road race slots given to the stronger nations. It is objectively very unfair that some contenders get relatively big teams of support riders while equally good contenders get smaller teams or none at all. It creates an inbuilt advantage for riders from stronger nations. Yes that would mean that riders from cycling powers would find it harder to be selected, but harder selection for non-contenders would be a lesser evil than rigging things in favour of some contenders for actual medals. Contenders from strong nations would still have the advantage of having on average stronger domestiques, but that's unavoidable while different team sizes drastically increases that advantage for no good reason.

That's not true. The intention to have the highest quality field overall is a good reason. Not saying I like it the way it is now. I actually don't have a strong opinion on this as I don't care about the Olympics too much in general.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

That's not true. The intention to have the highest quality field overall is a good reason. Not saying I like it the way it is now. I actually don't have a strong opinion on this as I don't care about the Olympics too much in general.

Yes that's the official reason, but it's not a good reason any more than letting Spain play twelve men at the World Cup would be justified by the fact that it would improve the level of players participating overall.

I don't particularly rate the Olympics as a road cycling competition event either, but the same issue is present in an even stronger form in the WCRR. It is less important to strengthen the field by allowing in the sixth best Italian or whatever than it is to avoid giving an unearned (by him) structural advantage to some contenders over others. As far as I am aware cycling is unique among major team sports in doing this. Yet cycling fans are so used to it that they by and large take it for granted as the natural way of the world.

Why should a Sagan, for instance, often have to enter major championships with fewer team mates than a Degenkolb or a Matthews or a Gilbert or an Alaphillipe? It's a major championships. The contenders should be able to contend in ways that as far as possible equalise factors other than their own strengths and weaknesses. Making it harder for him because he's from a small non-traditional cycling country is completely arbitrary.

Allowing different numbers of entrants from different countries makes sense in individual sports, but in a team sport it is simply bizarre.

 

[togo95]

Re: Re:

Allowing different numbers of entrants from different countries makes sense in individual sports, but in a team sport it is simply bizarre.

That's exactly what is the issue here. Cycling is neither team nor individual sport. So if you apply rules that work well in either of those to cycling, it doesn't always work.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

Allowing different numbers of entrants from different countries makes sense in individual sports, but in a team sport it is simply bizarre.

That's exactly what is the issue here. Cycling is neither team nor individual sport. So if you apply rules that work well in either of those to cycling, it doesn't always work.

Yes cycling is odd in combining a team structure with individual winners. But the team aspect is very important and most riders on most teams are there to support a contender, not to contend themselves. Nobody thinks that stronger trade teams should be allowed to send more riders to races because although it would strengthen the field it would be obviously very unfair. Yet as soon as the squads are based on nationality rather than sponsored teams, all of a sudden issues of fairness go out the window.

Why can't Etixx for instance send fifteen riders to Roubaix or the Ronde? It would strengthen the field after all. Their eleventh best cobbled rider is undoubtedly better than many team's seventh or eighth best.

 

[Pantani_lives]

Teams of equal size would mean only 20 to 22 countries. Romans Vainsteins probably wouldn't have been allowed to race. With smaller teams Igor Astarloa perhaps wouldn't have made the selection.

 

[Netserk]

You can switch trade team if you can't get selected. You cannot switch (as easily) what country you ride for.

I'd prefer if all riders qualified to the WC and OG individually, independent of their nation, as cycling isn't a team sport. Only one rider crosses the line first, only one rider gets to wear the jersey.