Romain Bardet Discussion Thread

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Red Rick said:
Pozzovivo, Adam Yates, Dan Martin, Majka, Zakarin, Kelderman, Lopez and Carapaz. And apart from Nibali, Froome, Dumoulin and Quintana it's somewhat close to all the others,
I don't see how it's even close between Zakarin and Pinot for instance, when the former has a 5th place and a 3rd place in the Giro and Vuelta '17 and Pinot has a 4th place in the Giro '17, but clearly we're looking at in in different ways then.
 
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Zinoviev Letter said:
There can’t be many guys with two Tour podiums who have as threadbare a palmares. He’s the worst sort of one race a year rider.
The sort of one race a year rider that podium two of the most contested hilly one-day races in the calendar. :)
 
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Alexandre B. said:
Zinoviev Letter said:
There can’t be many guys with two Tour podiums who have as threadbare a palmares. He’s the worst sort of one race a year rider.
The sort of one race a year rider that podium two of the most contested hilly one-day races in the calendar. :)
Andy Schleck won LBL.

If you are going to argue that Bardet is seriously targeting a range of races, then it follows that he’s really not very good because he never wins anything. An actual infant who was still using stabilizers on his bike up until six months ago like Bernal already has a more complete palmares outside of the Tour.
 
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Zinoviev Letter said:
Alexandre B. said:
Zinoviev Letter said:
There can’t be many guys with two Tour podiums who have as threadbare a palmares. He’s the worst sort of one race a year rider.
The sort of one race a year rider that podium two of the most contested hilly one-day races in the calendar. :)
Andy Schleck won LBL.

If you are going to argue that Bardet is seriously targeting a range of races, then it follows that he’s really not very good because he never wins anything. An actual infant who was still using stabilizers on his bike up until six months ago like Bernal already has a more complete palmares outside of the Tour.
First of all, I don't care about Bernal.

He's competitive all summer and in the Ardennes.
He was average in Tirreno (but almost everyone was), and sick in Basque Country.
Raced well in one-day races.

Is that really horrible?

He suffers the AG2R syndrome of being there but not winning big.
 
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Hugo Koblet said:
Red Rick said:
At least 5 of those names are just ... Wooow.
As mentioned, this is just a calculation based solely on finishing position. You might consider Pinot's Giro 2018 as something that should be taken into account, but to me it's just zero "points".

What names do you think is "Wooow"?
The same Adam Yates who finished 7 minutes behind Pinot in 2017 Giro (yes, I know he lost 4 mins due to crash in Blockhaus) and also is nowhere in this year Tour?
 
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Forever The Best said:
Hugo Koblet said:
Red Rick said:
At least 5 of those names are just ... Wooow.
As mentioned, this is just a calculation based solely on finishing position. You might consider Pinot's Giro 2018 as something that should be taken into account, but to me it's just zero "points".

What names do you think is "Wooow"?
The same Adam Yates who finished 7 minutes behind Pinot in 2017 Giro (yes, I know he lost 4 mins due to crash in Blockhaus) and also is nowhere in this year Tour?
That's the one, yes. Though I'd rather describe him as the same Yates who finished fourth in the 2016 Tour that Pinot didn't complete. Also, I already mentioned that I'm not taking this year's Tour into account as it's still in progress.
 
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Alexandre B. said:
Zinoviev Letter said:
Alexandre B. said:
Zinoviev Letter said:
There can’t be many guys with two Tour podiums who have as threadbare a palmares. He’s the worst sort of one race a year rider.
The sort of one race a year rider that podium two of the most contested hilly one-day races in the calendar. :)
Andy Schleck won LBL.

If you are going to argue that Bardet is seriously targeting a range of races, then it follows that he’s really not very good because he never wins anything. An actual infant who was still using stabilizers on his bike up until six months ago like Bernal already has a more complete palmares outside of the Tour.
First of all, I don't care about Bernal.

He's competitive all summer and in the Ardennes.
He was average in Tirreno (but almost everyone was), and sick in Basque Country.
Raced well in one-day races.

Is that really horrible?

He suffers the AG2R syndrome of being there but not winning big.
Bernal was just an illustrative example. Look at the palmares of the riders around Bardet at the sharp end of the Tour. Thomas, Dumoulin, Froome, Roglic, Quintana, Landa, Martin, Fuglsang, Valverde, Zakarin, Jungels, all have better non TdeF palmares than Bardet by margins ranging from substantial to enormous. The only exception before you get right down to the likes of Guillaume Martin or Latour is Kruijswijk. The same is true of GC men who are well down the order or not at the Tour, like Nibali, Uran, Simon Yates, Mollema, Lopez, even Adam Yates. All win more races.

So yes, I do think his palmares border on the horrible for a rider who is (most years) so good at the Tour. It’s really quite a perverse accomplishment to twice podium the Tour de France without ever winning a stage race other than the 2013 Tour de l’Ain. His only WT win of any kind outside the Tour is a single stage of the Dauphine, a Tour prep race.

And I don’t think “AG2R disease” explains it. I’ve always liked Bardet’s style of racing at the Tour, but I really can’t admire his Schleck / JVDB approach to the season as a whole.
 
Mar 22, 2011
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Bardet prepares 100% for his target.
The problem is that his target is not matched his strength perfectly. Even AG2R manager admired that modern tour racing tour fit all rounders. Very unlikely to win by pure climbers.

He is the best French hope currently. French sponsor wants him to 100% @ tour. This is easy to understand.

But his team and himself must wise enough to choose a best bet for the team.
Full team of puncheur and climber, hard for winning medium to grand tours.

The team best chances are for mountain jersey, daily classics and stages.
 
Mar 22, 2011
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As Zinoviev Letter said, Bardet parlmar is less when compared with similar level riders.

If he moves his focus from TDF GC to classics, I believe his career achievements could stack up quickly.
 
He has a decent but not spectacular record in monuments, finishing in the top 20 in all 11, but his win record generally for a rider of his level is not great, he has won one stage race and that is 2.1, he is the most tour focused of all current GC riders
 
I don't really blame Bardet for his record outside of GTs. He does give legit shots at classics, and the spring stage races suit him like garbage anyway. If anything I'd blame him for only ever riding the Tour, but he's a French rider at a French team, so I guess I should be praising Pinot rather than criticizing Bardet for it.

But really, Bardet has done as well as he'll ever do in the Tour. He will simply never win it. He could go for polka dots one day, but other than that he has nothing to add there.
 
I accept of course that he is in a position that incentivizes a monomaniacal focus on the Tour even more than the Tour’s bloated status in the sport does for everyone else. He’s the big French hope on a French team with French sponsors and being competitive at the Tour gives him fame and fortune beyond anything he could reasonably expect from a wider spread of accomplishments. As Red Rick says, it is more that Pinot deserves credit for trying a different path than that Bardet deserves criticism.

However, his palmares, outside the Tour, are markedly worse than those of anyone who could reasonably be considered his peer as a GC rider with the solitary exception of Kruijswijk. If you take the eighteen riders I listed above, throw in Pinot and maybe someone like Pozzovivo [edited to add: Aru, I knew I would forget obvious people] and you have a reasonable approximation of a top 20 list of established GT GC men. No doubt some would swap a few out, but it’s close enough. Everyone wins more than Bardet and Kruijswijk. This includes lots of guys who don’t exactly relish TTs and so are at the same sort of disadvantage as Bardet in those week long races with a substantial ITT.

I don’t think it’s because Bardet is among the worst of those 20. He’s not. It’s because his whole season is about being ready for July. He rarely even tries to be competitive in other stage races except for the Dauphine, where he is in full TDF test mode and to a lesser extent Catalonia.

(I don’t actually know what Kruijswijk’s problem is)
 
Kruijswijk is a pure diesel that needs constant climbing. Like Basso once was . He's got zero kick in his attacks, can't sprint and so his style of climbing usually doesn't become a fierce sword in week long stage races with the notable exception of the Tour of Switzerland!

Bardet is like Rasmussen light. He primarily peaks for Dauphine + Tour de France only, even if he carries along decent shape in some spring races. Eventually his level is always a step behind his summer shape. That's why he barely wins there. Maybe he should target the Italian fall classics more properly like in 2016! That's where IMHO a lot of potential lies for him. Because his skill set is well suited to those smaller fall classics where the opponents aren't always top notch. He mainly rides Lombardy only though.
 
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Red Rick said:
I don't really blame Bardet for his record outside of GTs. He does give legit shots at classics, and the spring stage races suit him like garbage anyway. If anything I'd blame him for only ever riding the Tour, but he's a French rider at a French team, so I guess I should be praising Pinot rather than criticizing Bardet for it.

But really, Bardet has done as well as he'll ever do in the Tour. He will simply never win it. He could go for polka dots one day, but other than that he has nothing to add there.
Bardet wore Polka dots in Paris once. He was 3rd in the competition behind Froome (yellow) and Quintana (white), so had to wear it.

I felt sorry for him every time the camera went to him that day.
 
Mar 22, 2011
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yaco said:
Bardet is best suited to the Giro and the Vuelta - LaTour rode a silly race in this TDF but his characteristics are suited to the TDF parcours.
It is a boring year.
Green, Polka, white and yellow are without competition basically.
(Yellow has competition. But sky gave me enough confident that they will win)

Latour wasted a lot of energy this tour. Anyways, no competition at all. He wins easily. Martin of Wanty faded out. Egan rode for Foorme.
Just interested to see his performance today. He won French TT title by 2 minutes + margin.
It was a surprise.
If he could complete within 30 sec behind DT or GT, he has a good potential for future grand tour and release bardet burden.
 
Mar 22, 2011
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Nothing is predictable.
Landa lost 1:15 to Bardet and exchange their GC position.

Bardet is fastest TTer in AG2R.
 
Mar 22, 2011
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Alexandre B. said:
del1962 said:
toolittle said:
Nothing is predictable.
Landa lost 1:15 to Bardet and exchange their GC position.

Bardet is fastest TTer in AG2R.
Was always going to be better time trial than a flat one, the suprise is Landa was not better
Hardly surprising, Bardet can do decent hilly TTs.
But beat Landa by 1:15 margin is more than expect. People might expect landa beat bardet by 1:15 instead
 

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