Rotor Hydraulic Groupset - where is FSA??

[JackRabbitSlims]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/rotor-unveil-hydraulic-uno-groupset/

Rotor has released the first pictures of its new Uno road groupset. The Spanish company, most famous for its oval Q-Rings and chainsets, has spent six years creating a new hydraulic-based road group to take on Shimano, SRAM and Campagnolo. The finished Uno group will be shown at the Eurobike show next week and is due to go on sale in spring 2016.

Rotor is promising “smooth activation, low maintenance, multiple shifting positions, both rim and disc hydraulic brake options, internal hose routing, and low ‘ride’ weight”.

as they say in spanish
muy interesante

 

[winkybiker]

I hope FSA is quietly going out of business. Or at least hiring some actual, real engineers to improve their products.

 

[42x16ss]

Very curious to find out how hydraulic actuation compares to electronic and cable

 

[JackRabbitSlims]

i like that they've partnered with magura for their rim and disc brakes

but

as the article explains
hydraulics means bleeding hoses, callipers and reservoirs = a potential regular ball ache

mechanical
electronic
wireless
hydraulic

whats next??

 

[winkybiker]

I think hydraulic actuation of rim brakes could be a good option for aero bikes. The idiotic brakes on the new Venge and the equally idiotic clicky-clacky little "dust flaps" on the new Madone could be replaced with something altogether more elegant once the actuation is done hydraulically and a lot of cable-related alignment and other physical constraints are removed. But just don't use those butt-ugly SRAM levers.

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

i like that they've partnered with magura for their rim and disc brakes

but

as the article explains
hydraulics means bleeding hoses, callipers and reservoirs = a potential regular ball ache

mechanical
electronic
wireless
hydraulic

whats next??

Regular bleeding is highly unlikely. MTB disc brakes undergo much higher forces than these will ever undergo and I know guys who haven't bled their brakes in 5+ years. It COULD be brilliant, but I think it'll fail. I don't really see the benefit over electronic gears.

 

[JackRabbitSlims]

Re: Re:

i like that they've partnered with magura for their rim and disc brakes

but

as the article explains
hydraulics means bleeding hoses, callipers and reservoirs = a potential regular ball ache

mechanical
electronic
wireless
hydraulic

whats next??

Regular bleeding is highly unlikely. MTB disc brakes undergo much higher forces than these will ever undergo and I know guys who haven't bled their brakes in 5+ years. It COULD be brilliant, but I think it'll fail. I don't really see the benefit over electronic gears.

the whole groupset will be hydraulic

manufacturer
hydraulic fluid used
geographical location and climate
frequency and type of riding

will all influence the need for bleeding

in our workshop we see many riders needing their dot fluid brakes bled
avid mostly
dot absorbs moisture over time
shimano and mineral oil
not so often

5+ years is good mileage and value for money

i don't see any benefit in electronic gears
period

all imho ofc

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

i like that they've partnered with magura for their rim and disc brakes

but

as the article explains
hydraulics means bleeding hoses, callipers and reservoirs = a potential regular ball ache

mechanical
electronic
wireless
hydraulic

whats next??

Regular bleeding is highly unlikely. MTB disc brakes undergo much higher forces than these will ever undergo and I know guys who haven't bled their brakes in 5+ years. It COULD be brilliant, but I think it'll fail. I don't really see the benefit over electronic gears.

the whole groupset will be hydraulic

manufacturer
hydraulic fluid used
geographical location and climate
frequency and type of riding

will all influence the need for bleeding

in our workshop we see many riders needing their dot fluid brakes bled
avid mostly
dot absorbs moisture over time
shimano and mineral oil
not so often

5+ years is good mileage and value for money

i don't see any benefit in electronic gears
period

all imho ofc

There's a reason Avids are known as avoids!! Yeah, I only run Shimano brakes or brakes that use mineral oil. I live in Scotland so it was a serious consideration.

They won't use the same reservoir for shifting and braking, so while the brakes may need more regular bleeding I'd expect the gears to be almost set and forget if done right. They also won't use springs so shifting should be much smoother. It's not for me, too many down sides compared to benefits, but it's certainly a clever idea.


Electronic gears? If you race yes, maybe. If you don't I personally don't see the point of going about 105/Ultegra or Athena/Chorus (no one should be allowed to ride Sram... ).

 

[Bustedknuckle]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/rotor-unveil-hydraulic-uno-groupset/

Rotor has released the first pictures of its new Uno road groupset. The Spanish company, most famous for its oval Q-Rings and chainsets, has spent six years creating a new hydraulic-based road group to take on Shimano, SRAM and Campagnolo. The finished Uno group will be shown at the Eurobike show next week and is due to go on sale in spring 2016.

Rotor is promising “smooth activation, low maintenance, multiple shifting positions, both rim and disc hydraulic brake options, internal hose routing, and low ‘ride’ weight”.

as they say in spanish
muy interesante

Must be kidding.

 

[JackRabbitSlims]

Re: Re:

i like that they've partnered with magura for their rim and disc brakes

but

as the article explains
hydraulics means bleeding hoses, callipers and reservoirs = a potential regular ball ache

mechanical
electronic
wireless
hydraulic

whats next??

Regular bleeding is highly unlikely. MTB disc brakes undergo much higher forces than these will ever undergo and I know guys who haven't bled their brakes in 5+ years. It COULD be brilliant, but I think it'll fail. I don't really see the benefit over electronic gears.

the whole groupset will be hydraulic

manufacturer
hydraulic fluid used
geographical location and climate
frequency and type of riding

will all influence the need for bleeding

in our workshop we see many riders needing their dot fluid brakes bled
avid mostly
dot absorbs moisture over time
shimano and mineral oil
not so often

5+ years is good mileage and value for money

i don't see any benefit in electronic gears
period

all imho ofc

There's a reason Avids are known as avoids!! Yeah, I only run Shimano brakes or brakes that use mineral oil. I live in Scotland so it was a serious consideration.

They won't use the same reservoir for shifting and braking, so while the brakes may need more regular bleeding I'd expect the gears to be almost set and forget if done right. They also won't use springs so shifting should be much smoother. It's not for me, too many down sides compared to benefits, but it's certainly a clever idea.


Electronic gears? If you race yes, maybe. If you don't I personally don't see the point of going about 105/Ultegra or Athena/Chorus (no one should be allowed to ride Sram... ).

it's hard to find

any love for sram these days

what will become

 

[JackRabbitSlims]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/rotor-unveil-hydraulic-uno-groupset/

Rotor has released the first pictures of its new Uno road groupset. The Spanish company, most famous for its oval Q-Rings and chainsets, has spent six years creating a new hydraulic-based road group to take on Shimano, SRAM and Campagnolo. The finished Uno group will be shown at the Eurobike show next week and is due to go on sale in spring 2016.

Rotor is promising “smooth activation, low maintenance, multiple shifting positions, both rim and disc hydraulic brake options, internal hose routing, and low ‘ride’ weight”.

as they say in spanish
muy interesante

Must be kidding.

I was expecting

and hoping

for so much more from you

than that

release the cynicism

 

[Bustedknuckle]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/rotor-unveil-hydraulic-uno-groupset/

Rotor has released the first pictures of its new Uno road groupset. The Spanish company, most famous for its oval Q-Rings and chainsets, has spent six years creating a new hydraulic-based road group to take on Shimano, SRAM and Campagnolo. The finished Uno group will be shown at the Eurobike show next week and is due to go on sale in spring 2016.

Rotor is promising “smooth activation, low maintenance, multiple shifting positions, both rim and disc hydraulic brake options, internal hose routing, and low ‘ride’ weight”.

as they say in spanish
muy interesante

Must be kidding.

I was expecting

and hoping

for so much more from you

than that

release the cynicism

Really, ever have to deal with fsa junque? They have been on my 'sure to gooutofbiz' list for years, along with spinergy. hydraulic shifting, what on earth does that bring to the table compared to electronic? That's like taking a digital aircraft and making it torque tubes, chains and hydraulic actuators again.

 

[wendybnt]

There is a very good reason why FSA chainset are often specced on bikes with an otherwise complete grruppo.

(And it isn't because they are better)

 

[JackRabbitSlims]

Re:

There is a very good reason why FSA chainset are often specced on bikes with an otherwise complete grruppo.

(And it isn't because they are better)

cryptic

please

regale us with your anecdotes

 

[wendybnt]

Sure. It's cheap crap. Saves manufacturers money. Although I can't claim to have been heavily involved, we did have a bike business at one point, mostly to do with MTB rentals, but some sales and a surprising amount of wrenching. FSA was on our *** list for poor quality, particularly the chainsets.

 

[42x16ss]

Yep. Soft chainrings that shift poorly and cr@p BB's that wear out quickly. The cranks themselves are ok I guess, but I prefer the offerings from Cannondale, Campy and Shimano.

The new 4 bolt cranks from Campy and Shimano are excellent and the new Cannondale SiSL's are just about the industry standard IMO.

 

[jmdirt]

I can't answer your Q, but all of the new chain movers are interesting. In the early '90s there were a lot of attempts at groupos, but nothing worked as well as Shimano (even Campag at that time) so the little guys disappeared and it was Shim and Camp (road), and Shim was the only option for dirt. SRAM sorta figured out it out. The last few years, and especially this year, has seen a lot of activity again. I'll be curious to see how it shakes out!

 

[wendybnt]

I think Campy are a bit vulnerable, and will probably need to change their business model quite heavily to stay in the game, certainly they will have to outsource production if they haven't already done so, which carries the risk of losing the Made in Italy cachet (which is pretty much a myth these days). I think they had a bit of a go at getting into the OEM market (quick-to-fit Powertorque cranks) but really left much of a mark.

Shimano really have it sewn up with R&D and innovation, and have for some years and SRAM gruppos are....well.....I'd rather not say

 

[jmdirt]

Re: Re:

i like that they've partnered with magura for their rim and disc brakes

but

as the article explains
hydraulics means bleeding hoses, callipers and reservoirs = a potential regular ball ache

mechanical
electronic
wireless
hydraulic

whats next??

Regular bleeding is highly unlikely. MTB disc brakes undergo much higher forces than these will ever undergo and I know guys who haven't bled their brakes in 5+ years. It COULD be brilliant, but I think it'll fail. I don't really see the benefit over electronic gears.

Do they even ride? I feel that performance is compromised enough after 12 months (275-300 days on the dirt) to bleed every spring. My new rig ('16 Scott Spark 910) will be here is about 20 days so I won't have to bleed this spring!

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re:

I think Campy are a bit vulnerable, and will probably need to change their business model quite heavily to stay in the game, certainly they will have to outsource production if they haven't already done so, which carries the risk of losing the Made in Italy cachet (which is pretty much a myth these days). I think they had a bit of a go at getting into the OEM market (quick-to-fit Powertorque cranks) but really left much of a mark.

Shimano really have it sewn up with R&D and innovation, and have for some years and SRAM gruppos are....well.....I'd rather not say

They won't have to change any more than Ducati, Rolex or Porsche. They are small, iconic, know who they are and where they are going. Porsche doesn't make a truck, Camoagnolo improved their top 3 groups and eliminated a low end one. Of the 3, one of the 2 premium brands. They care not really for OEM, their focus is on racing and racers. Let spam create, fail, try again.

 

[wendybnt]

What about the Porsche Boxster?

Seriously though, I don't have your confidence in Campagnolo's survival in today's market. They weren't 'small and iconic', they were the market leaders and they have been shrinking since the 70s in the face of Shimano, and now Shimano and Sram. They've virtually disappeared from pro tour sponsorship too. Middle-aged fans and a cult following are all very well, but that won't keep them afloat. From what I've heard, they sacked a load of people recently.

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

What about the Porsche Boxster?

Seriously though, I don't have your confidence in Campagnolo's survival in today's market. They weren't 'small and iconic', they were the market leaders and they have been shrinking since the 70s in the face of Shimano, and now Shimano and Sram. They've virtually disappeared from pro tour sponsorship too. Middle-aged fans and a cult following are all very well, but that won't keep them afloat. From what I've heard, they sacked a load of people recently.

They've reclaimed a few teams the last few years to be fair. Sure they lost AG2R but they still have:

Lotto Soudal
Movistar
Astana
Europcar
Rusvelo
Fantini
Southeast
Budget

Amongst others.

Better than SRAM's grand total of one WT team...

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re:

What about the Porsche Boxster?

Seriously though, I don't have your confidence in Campagnolo's survival in today's market. They weren't 'small and iconic', they were the market leaders and they have been shrinking since the 70s in the face of Shimano, and now Shimano and Sram. They've virtually disappeared from pro tour sponsorship too. Middle-aged fans and a cult following are all very well, but that won't keep them afloat. From what I've heard, they sacked a load of people recently.

Boxster a mid engine and completely different than the rear engine or front engine types from Porsche. Certainly not Toyota.

Ahh, another 'Campagnolo is in trouble' thread..they sell everything they make, every year and have since about 1993.

See above and spam has almost disappeared in the pro peloton. Don't measure Campagnolo with shimano and sram metrics, any more than you would measure Ducati by Yamaha metrics or Rolex with Seiko's. OEM is spam/shimano's game and shimano is kicking their ass in that field. Campagnolo is small and 'local'(manufacturing) and wish to stay that way AND their wheel biz(Campagnolo and Fulcrum) is challenging mavic, you know those guys that do ONLY wheels, for largest share of the market.

But if ya want to try stuff that breaks or is recalled..or be one of the 'herd', go ahead and use spam or shimano.

 

[wendybnt]

Re: Re:

What about the Porsche Boxster?

Seriously though, I don't have your confidence in Campagnolo's survival in today's market. They weren't 'small and iconic', they were the market leaders and they have been shrinking since the 70s in the face of Shimano, and now Shimano and Sram. They've virtually disappeared from pro tour sponsorship too. Middle-aged fans and a cult following are all very well, but that won't keep them afloat. From what I've heard, they sacked a load of people recently.

Ahh, another 'Campagnolo is in trouble' thread..they sell everything they make, every year and have since about 1993.

See above and spam has almost disappeared in the pro peloton. Don't measure Campagnolo with shimano and sram metrics, any more than you would measure Ducati by Yamaha metrics or Rolex with Seiko's. OEM is spam/shimano's game and shimano is kicking their ass in that field. Campagnolo is small and 'local'(manufacturing) and wish to stay that way AND their wheel biz(Campagnolo and Fulcrum) is challenging mavic, you know those guys that do ONLY wheels, for largest share of the market.

But if ya want to try stuff that breaks or is recalled..or be one of the 'herd', go ahead and use spam or shimano.

Maybe it is better if we see what Campagnolo have to say about their OEM intentions:

http://www.bike-eu.com/home/nieuws/2013/5/campagnolo-announces-strategy-change-at-80th-anniversary-1013041

"When asked to elaborate on the updates strategies towards OEMs, Taxis said: “This company was very much focused on AM, Now we want to focus more on OEMs. We do that by following them more closely in their ordering cycle and planning and for instance with our new logistics center in Taichung, Taiwan.”

...and the 20% job cuts...

http://road.cc/content/news/141525-campagnolo-strike-threat-1-5-jobs-cut-vicenza-hq

But beyond that, I am sure we agree on much.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

What about the Porsche Boxster?

Seriously though, I don't have your confidence in Campagnolo's survival in today's market. They weren't 'small and iconic', they were the market leaders and they have been shrinking since the 70s in the face of Shimano, and now Shimano and Sram. They've virtually disappeared from pro tour sponsorship too. Middle-aged fans and a cult following are all very well, but that won't keep them afloat. From what I've heard, they sacked a load of people recently.

Ahh, another 'Campagnolo is in trouble' thread..they sell everything they make, every year and have since about 1993.

See above and spam has almost disappeared in the pro peloton. Don't measure Campagnolo with shimano and sram metrics, any more than you would measure Ducati by Yamaha metrics or Rolex with Seiko's. OEM is spam/shimano's game and shimano is kicking their ass in that field. Campagnolo is small and 'local'(manufacturing) and wish to stay that way AND their wheel biz(Campagnolo and Fulcrum) is challenging mavic, you know those guys that do ONLY wheels, for largest share of the market.

But if ya want to try stuff that breaks or is recalled..or be one of the 'herd', go ahead and use spam or shimano.

Maybe it is better if we see what Campagnolo have to say about their OEM intentions:

http://www.bike-eu.com/home/nieuws/2013/5/campagnolo-announces-strategy-change-at-80th-anniversary-1013041

"When asked to elaborate on the updates strategies towards OEMs, Taxis said: “This company was very much focused on AM, Now we want to focus more on OEMs. We do that by following them more closely in their ordering cycle and planning and for instance with our new logistics center in Taichung, Taiwan.”

...and the 20% job cuts...

http://road.cc/content/news/141525-campagnolo-strike-threat-1-5-jobs-cut-vicenza-hq

But beyond that, I am sure we agree on much.

And shimano and spam have never had job cuts? A strike in Italy, really? I'm shocked!!

Probably not sram since they don't own any manufacturing but it is all out sourced in Taiwan..

Look for a Fulcrum group made in Taiwan, for OE..