Sagan or Gilbert

[boraboca]

Who would you rather have on your team REMEMBER THINK ABOUT THE FUTURE 2

 

[Parrulo]

gilbert absolutly no doubt.

is there any thinking to do? we are talking about a guy still yet to reach his peack(gilber is only 28 or 29) that already is the best all round classic rider and that on a good day with some luck can win any classic. and the other guy is just 21 year old with some victories and with a bit of luck will vanish this season(not saying he will just saying that it happens all the time to young guns)

so ya gilbert.

 

[hrotha]

There's a good chance Sagan is here to stay (that's what I decided after seeing him be competitive at the highest level in his second peak of the season), but lots of things can go wrong. Gilbert will win you some of the biggest races the next 4 or 5 years. Sagan could become a better rider than Gilbert, but then again that's not guaranteed. If Gilbert were 33 years old or something I'd take the gamble with Sagan, but as it stands I'd have Gilbert any day.

 

[Ferminal]

I'd need two Sagans before I considered handing over Gilbert.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Sagan is your typical eastern-european who reaches his peak early and then either fades away or stays at the same level.

Gilbert is a guy who steadily made progress and is still getting better. So... i'd say Gilbert

 

[roundabout]

Err, what's with the amateur anthropology?

Sagan may not ride into his mid 30's, but to say he is not likely to keep improving just because he's this good at 20 is a bit silly.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

obviously gilbert.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

Gilbert DUH

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Err, what's with the amateur anthropology?

Sagan may not ride into his mid 30's, but to say he is not likely to keep improving just because he's this good at 20 is a bit silly.

Yeah, that's what they said about Kreuziger as well.

 

[roundabout]

I still don't understand why it would be a typical case.

Besides, Sagan would be dangerous enough even if he only improves at the same rate Kreuziger did from 20 to 22.

 

[Vonn Brinkman]

Gilbert.
No explanations needed.

 

[Angliru]

Definitely Gilbert. Sagan has shown potential but that's doesn't compare to Gilbert's steady prowess and progress to the elite level of the sport.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Err, what's with the amateur anthropology?

Sagan may not ride into his mid 30's, but to say he is not likely to keep improving just because he's this good at 20 is a bit silly.

In which case I'll keep an eye on him and pick him up in a couple of years' time when he's got better. For now, I'll take Gilbert and rack up the results and sponsorship money, and then hopefully I'll be able to afford Sagan with those winnings in a couple of years' time, and have both.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I still don't understand why it would be a typical case.

Besides, Sagan would be dangerous enough even if he only improves at the same rate Kreuziger did from 20 to 22.

You really want me to make a list of all eastern europeans who stopped progressing early?

 

[hrotha]

You really want me to make a list of all eastern europeans who stopped progressing early?

Please do. Not much else to talk about.
(I might contribute a list of eastern europeans who did keep progressing. I hope I can think of someone aside from Menchov)

 

[El Pistolero]

Please do. Not much else to talk about.
(I might contribute a list of eastern europeans who did keep progressing. I hope I can think of someone aside from Menchov)

Vinokourov and Kolobnev(well, atleast he didn't decline)

And that dangerous sprinter with the difficult name he always caused crashes(he won all sprint jerseys of GTs).

Let's instead make a list of all French cyclists that started promising, but then went on to achieve nothing. Making fun of the Franskiljons is more fun.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Abdoujaparov is Uzbeki. Vino is Kazakh. Both of which are Asian, not Eastern European.

 

[El Pistolero]

Abdoujaparov is Uzbeki. Vino is Kazakh. Both of which are Asian, not Eastern European.

Aren't they Slavic though?
Europe's boundaries are just political based anyway. In the past it didn't include Russia, so I don't even consider them to be European.
But I read over that European part haha, I only read east. xD

 

[janraaskalt]

Please do. Not much else to talk about.

M. Ignatiev? E. Petrov?

 

[The Hitch]

Aren't they Slavic though?

Nah.

Since we are on the issue ( a sagan vs Gilbert thread is so one sided, its worth hijacking) one thing i always thought was, since Vinokourov is ethnic kazakh, shouldnt he be Muslim. I know there is a christian minority in Kazakhstan, but ethnic kazakhs are mostly muslims. I swear ive seen Vino do the sign of the cross though. Looks like hes one of the minority.


I dont personaly care about what religion or ethnicity someone has, but many people do.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Aren't they Slavic though?
Europe's boundaries are just political based anyway. In the past it didn't include Russia, so I don't even consider them to be European.
But I read over that European part haha, I only read east. xD

No. They're Central Asian. Most of them are Turkic, both ethnically and linguistically (this is Turkic/Altaic the ethnic-linguistic group, not Turkish, which is only one relatively distant part of the group.

However, because of their histories, there are a number of ethnic Russians, and other minorities from the Soviet Union in many of these countries (a large number of Volga Germans in Kazakhstan for example). I would take a guess at Vino being likely ethnically Russian in origin, just looking at him - which would mean that he is Slavic - but this is purely fanciful guesswork. I think we'd have to ask AstanaFans about that. Abdou on the other hand is most definitely not Slavic.

Nowadays the Ural Mountains are generally used as the geographic border between Europe and Asia.

 

[hrotha]

Vinokourov and Kolobnev(well, atleast he didn't decline)

And that dangerous sprinter with the difficult name he always caused crashes(he won all sprint jerseys of GTs).

Let's instead make a list of all French cyclists that started promising, but then went on to achieve nothing. Making fun of the Franskiljons is more fun.

Leaving aside for a moment the issue of Vino's being Asian and of Russian, Kazakh or mixed descent, he didn't turn pro until he was 25 so I'm not sure he'd count for the purposes of this discussion anyway.

Kolobnev qualifies, I guess.

 

[roundabout]

Nah.

Since we are on the issue ( a sagan vs Gilbert thread is so one sided, its worth hijacking) one thing i always thought was, since Vinokourov is ethnic kazakh, shouldnt he be Muslim. I know there is a christian minority in Kazakhstan, but ethnic kazakhs are mostly muslims. I swear ive seen Vino do the sign of the cross though. Looks like hes one of the minority.


I dont personaly care about what religion or ethnicity someone has, but many people do.

Hitch, Hitch, Hitch, i never expected this from you of all people

Apart from the obvious features

1.There's a 23% ethnic Russian population in Kazakhstan.

2. Vinokourov was born in Petropavlovsk where ethnic Russians make up the vast majority (3/4) of the population even today.

 

[roundabout]

M. Ignatiev? E. Petrov?

Back on topic. Petrov had his best years at 28-29. 6th and 7th seasons as professional

Ignatiev I can give you.

 

[El Pistolero]

No. They're Central Asian. Most of them are Turkic, both ethnically and linguistically (this is Turkic/Altaic the ethnic-linguistic group, not Turkish, which is only one relatively distant part of the group.

However, because of their histories, there are a number of ethnic Russians, and other minorities from the Soviet Union in many of these countries (a large number of Volga Germans in Kazakhstan for example). I would take a guess at Vino being likely ethnically Russian in origin, just looking at him - which would mean that he is Slavic - but this is purely fanciful guesswork. I think we'd have to ask AstanaFans about that. Abdou on the other hand is most definitely not Slavic.

Nowadays the Ural Mountains are generally used as the geographic border between Europe and Asia.

Thanks for the explanation

Looking at some pics of Abdou and he definitely is not Slavic. But I always considered Vino to be a Slavic. But perhaps he's of mixed ancestry. And I'm fully aware of what you mean by Turkic, but my knowledge of modern central Asian states is indeed definitely lacking. My interest lies more with the Near East and Western Europe.

And I know what the boundaries of Europe are nowadays, but they're complete nonsense. Turkey for me qualifies more to be part of Europe than Russia for example.

ot:

How about Brajkovic? Strange how no one even mentioned him yet. He really did improve this season by beating Contador at the Dauphine.