Santos Tour Down Under Stage 2 Mt. Barker to Rostrevor 116.5km

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El Pistolero said:
To me it's pretty obvious that GT wouldn't have won the Team Pursuit if he was born in Belgium. Belgians are decent in the Madison, but that's not an Olympic event anymore. I think GT was second on the Madison last year at the WC in fact.

Just because you win Team Pursuit(while being by far in the strongest country) doesn't make you a winner in this sport: road racing. And for me, GT was not a winner type, but he did seem like a winner type yesterday.

Perhaps I should've said not a winner on the road, but I thought it was implied since this is the road racing forum. Yeah, him not focusing on the track anymore can be a reason for him being better this year. But I don't really believe you need to sacrifice your whole road season just to win a 4km team time trial. :eek:
He first did Worlds in March or April (not sure) and then the Olympics. Riding 4 km or 200 km is ofcourse totally different and you obviously know that. If you want to be world class on the 4K Team Pursuit you ll get a lot worse in a 200K stage race.

Plus his ideal track weight is obviously not the same as his ideal road weight especially if he wants to win races like yesterdays stage.

If Thomas didnt do the track he would have won a lot more on the road already.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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Ruudz0r said:
He first did Worlds in March or April (not sure) and then the Olympics. Riding 4 km or 200 km is ofcourse totally different and you obviously know that. If you want to be world class on the 4K Team Pursuit you ll get a lot worse in a 200K stage race.

Plus his ideal track weight is obviously not the same as his ideal road weight especially if he wants to win races like yesterdays stage.

If Thomas didnt do the track he would have won a lot more on the road already.
Cancellara is the most dominant rider in prologues(short explosive effort) and pretty dominant in long races as well(stamina).

Yet he isn't spent after doing 2 prologues. ;)

Bolded is an unfounded statement at best.
 
Apr 1, 2009
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El Pistolero said:
He won the Team Pursuit, lucky enough to be born in the best country. How many people count team time trials as real victories on this forum?

By the way, this is the road racing forum. As far as I'm concerned he only won a very short Romandie prologue, British road race title(lol) and the overall in one of the worst stage races there is.

So yeah, he definitely was not a winner type. Since when are we counting junior races? :eek:
Well we are lucky that your concerns dont really matter as to which prof will win what. GT is an awesome prospect, letsj sut wait and see :eek:
 
Dec 30, 2011
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El Pistolero said:
Cancellara is the most dominant rider in prologues(short explosive effort) and pretty dominant in long races as well(stamina).

Yet he isn't spent after doing 2 prologues. ;)

Bolded is an unfounded statement at best.
I think you are mixing up prologues and TP. TP are ridden at a much faster speed. Lets see GT do a prologue and Cancellara do the track before we comment.

I think you will find Cancellara without training for the track will not be the force he is in a prologue and GT will finish very well the prologue.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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Froome19 said:
I think you are mixing up prologues and TP. TP are ridden at a much faster speed. Lets see GT do a prologue and Cancellara do the track before we comment.

I think you will find Cancellara without training for the track will not be the force he is in a prologue and GT will finish very well the prologue.
When Cancellara was 15 years old he did 1km ITT on the track in 1 minute and 7 seconds.

GT won the prologue in Romandie last year and was second in the Giro prologue.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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BlenJones2 said:
Same with Pete Kennaugh, although maybe not winning but making an impact.
kennaugh is a typical track rider. great skills overall, but lacks the engine to compete in serious wt racing. that's why he did wlel in u23, where races are shorter and easier usually
 
El Pistolero said:
Cancellara is the most dominant rider in prologues(short explosive effort) and pretty dominant in long races as well(stamina).

Yet he isn't spent after doing 2 prologues. ;)

Bolded is an unfounded statement at best.
Your missing something here, Cancellara wins prologues yes and he can win races like PR and Flanders.

But he is riding prologues versus guys that also do road racing and dont only focus on a short explosive effort. As you could see in Romandie 2012 GT won the prologue, but then was struggling on the longer stages, because he had been fully focussing on a short explosive effort.

If Cancellara would have ridden with the GB team in the team pursuit (instead of Thomas) in his prologue form with which he won prologues in the TDF etc, the GB team would certainly not have won gold.

Cancellara is obviously a class act, and if he would focus on the track and team pursuit he could be a really good rider I think (although its not an option for a guy from Switzerland at this time). But he also cannot win the worlds on team pursuit and Roubaix in the same year.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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Ruudz0r said:
Your missing something here, Cancellara wins prologues yes and he can win races like PR and Flanders.

But he is riding prologues versus guys that also do road racing and dont only focus on a short explosive effort. As you could see in Romandie 2012 GT won the prologue, but then was struggling on the longer stages, because he had been fully focussing on a short explosive effort.

If Cancellara would have ridden with the GB team in the team pursuit (instead of Thomas) in his prologue form with which he won prologues in the TDF etc, the GB team would certainly not have won gold.

Cancellara is obviously a class act, and if he would focus on the track and team pursuit he could be a really good rider I think (although its not an option for a guy from Switzerland at this time). But he also cannot win the worlds on team pursuit and Roubaix in the same year.
GT was also second in the final and longer time trial of the Giro(on the final stage, meaning he recovered well or lost time on purpose on some stages to conserve energy).

Cancellara is the king of short explosive effort on flat or undulating terrain. Adding a track on it wouldn't change much.

If Cancellara wanted to he could probably win some track events(that suit him as a rider) and a bunch of road races in the same year. ;)
 
El Pistolero said:
GT was also second in the final and longer time trial of the Giro(on the final stage, meaning he recovered well or lost time on purpose on some stages to conserve energy).

Cancellara is the king of short explosive effort on flat or undulating terrain. Adding a track on it wouldn't change much.

If Cancellara wanted to he could probably win some track events(that suit him as a rider) and a bunch of road races in the same year. ;)
yes by the end of the Giro GT obviously already got better on the road again.

GT had to peak twice on the track last year though and then it will be hard to win multiple races on the road afterwards.

Cancellara (if he was Brittish) could not have won Worlds TP (track) + Olympics TP (track) + Worlds TT (road) last year. Its just to much of a difference and you get to far behind on people who fully focus on the Worlds TT (Road) like Martin and Phinney.

You are probably going to say what about G's 2011 etc but he actually had an impressive year maybe not result wise (although he still had some good results), but if you watched how he did ride as a domestic it was impressive. While he also did some track racing in between (and became european champion for example). And guys like Boonen and Gilbert dont win 10 races each year either even though they are undisputable captains at their team.

But fact is G has always been a winner on whatever he focussed, and his time on the road will now come and I think he again will be a winner.

Fine for me if you dont agree but im done with this, we had a similar discussion 2 days ago and G proved you wrong by winning, and im sure he will do that again :).
 
Jul 16, 2010
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Ruudz0r said:
yes by the end of the Giro GT obviously already got better on the road again.



Fine for me if you dont agree but im done with this, we had a similar discussion 2 days ago and G proved you wrong by winning, and im sure he will do that again :).
No he didn't. I said it's January and impossible to predict who is still in form and who's still in build-up.

He did however look like someone who could win actual road races yesterday. In the other years of his road career he never showed something like that. And he didn't focus on track in 2009-2011.

Nobody gets better during a GT, some people just get worse on a slower rate than others. ;)
 
Jul 30, 2009
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jens_attacks said:
i've just seen the stage. indeed thomas hasn't the most beautiful style climbing but he's efficient. the strongest by far,very powerful sprint too.
can't see him losing on old willunga.
Pantani style on the drops is ugly-beautiful

it was a strong sprint - only short stage though, we know he can do 250km+ so if he can keep that sprint for the finale of a monument maybe I will see a Brit win a proper race :)
 
So if you start sick in a GT, and you are nto sick anymore after a week, its not possible to ride better? Its the same when you start with almost no long rides in your legs and then you get better at handling the distance after some days.

Must be nice by the way to ride a world record (individual pursuit) on the track without focussing on it!
 
Eyeballs Out said:
The crash wasn't shown. I think the riders involved were behind the 2nd group - at least they were behind on the climb. Gilbert started in a good position but seemed to slide backwards from what we saw. Maybe strength of numbers would have helped the chase but Thomas was very strong and would have won regardless
thanks!

10 char
 
Jul 16, 2010
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Ruudz0r said:
So if you start sick in a GT, and you are nto sick anymore after a week, its not possible to ride better? Its the same when you start with almost no long rides in your legs and then you get better at handling the distance after some days.

Must be nice by the way to ride a world record (individual pursuit) on the track without focussing on it!
Most cyclists get sick during the Tour because their immunity system is weak because of being on good form and the daily hard efforts. It has to be a harmless disease if you want to be cured of it during a Grand Tour.

But realistically speaking, no one is going to be as fresh at the last stage of a GT as they were in the first stage. Geraint Thomas would've won the final time trial if he was still as fresh as day 1. And banned for doping lol.
 
El Pistolero said:
But realistically speaking, no one is going to be as fresh at the last stage of a GT as they were in the first stage.
there are quite two decades since this is not true
pretty much all the big performances come in the second or even in the third week of racing. fortunately it's less about realistic and more about the magic. that's why pro cycling is so good and hopefully will stay the same
 
Jul 16, 2010
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jens_attacks said:
there are quite two decades since this is not true
pretty much all the big performances come in the second or even in the third week of racing. fortunately it's less about realistic and more about the magic. that's why pro cycling is so good and hopefully will stay the same
Because the last week has all the decisive stages.

And like I said, EVERYONE gets worse. Just some people that get worse than others, so it looks like they get better. I heard this out of the mouth of numerous professional cyclists by the way. ;)
 
El Pistolero said:
Because the last week has all the decisive stages.

And like I said, EVERYONE gets worse. Just some people that get worse than others, so it looks like they get better.
i could bring hundreds of examples for my opinion. but i won't do it
stick with yours,i will stick with mine
 
Jul 16, 2010
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jens_attacks said:
i could bring hundreds of examples for my opinion. but i won't do it
stick with yours,i will stick with mine
Scientific blood tests don't lie. Of course your examples would be of cyclists artificially keeping their haematocrit around a particular level, proving my point even further.
 
Being fresh and getting better or worse during a GT is not totally the same thing especially if you enter a GT in bad shape. Ofcourse they wont be as fresh at day 20 as you were at day 1. You can however be better.
 
Jan 22, 2013
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What are your thoughts about today race? And how the profile looks like?

Breakaway, sprint or a late attack?
 
Jan 11, 2010
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El Pistolero said:
Because the last week has all the decisive stages.

And like I said, EVERYONE gets worse. Just some people that get worse than others, so it looks like they get better. I heard this out of the mouth of numerous professional cyclists by the way. ;)
Of course you get worse during a GT, you get tired. But a track rider who starts a GT five kilos overweight can come out of it in better shape than before.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Dang! I was wondering why Julian Kern finished 8 minutes back ... well, here's the answer:



Only the third race as a pro and already this. Tough break, kid! Better luck next time, I hope!
 

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