In a mostly clear sport with very little doping most of us would agree with Sastre, so again, whose fault it is that we're all cynical *******s?
The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to
In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.
Thanks!
Doping like all things in science is improving. Gadgets are improving, healthcare is improving, transport is improving and so is doping.movingtarget said:I never thought sport was a level playing field to start with. Even with differences in diet, training and preparation I still think there are some naturally gifted athletes in most sports that for whatever reasons, have physical advantages over most of their competitors. Whether it's a higher resistance to pain or a more efficient set of lungs. I think it happens. Of course it's a small percentage. I am not saying that doping is not rife in sport but I still think some people are just physically gifted in much the same way some seven year olds have the mental capacity and dexterity to play a Mozart Concerto. We should not be assuming that sportsmen or women that string a few wins together all have to be doping.
If we all thought that, why do we bother watching at all ?
Ninety5rpm said:Note sure what the Lemond/Sastre results are supposed to show, but I thought I would format them to make them a bit more readable at least.
Greg Lemond's Grand Tour Record : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_LeMond
1984 – Renault
Tour de France - 3rd overall
1985 - Tour de France - 2nd overall
Giro d'Italia - 3rd overall
1986 - Tour de France - 1st overall
Giro d'Italia - 4th overall
1989 - Tour De France - 1st overall
Giro d'Italia - 39th overall
1990 - Tour De France - 1st overall
Giro d'Italia - 105th overall
1991 - Tour De France - 7th overall
Grand Tour _84 _85 _86 _87 _88 _89 _90 _91
......Giro --- --- __4 --- --- _39 105 ---
......Tour __3 __2 __1 --- --- __1 __1 __7
....Vuelta
Carlos Sastre's Grand Tour Record : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Sastre#Grand_Tour_General_Classification_results_timeline
Grand Tour 99 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10
.....Giro 101 -- -- 38 -- -- -- 43 -- -- +4 +8
......Tour -- -- 20 10 +9 +8 21 +3 +4 +1 16 20
....Vuelta -- +8 WD -- 35 +5 +2 +4 +2 +3 -- +8
Ninety5rpm said:Note sure what the Lemond/Sastre results are supposed to show, but I thought I would format them to make them a bit more readable at least.
roundabout said:To be fair Sastre had to ride as a domestique in 1999 when he was one of the first people in the train when Jalabert had the Maglia Rosa.
He was a lot more impressive in 2000 and 2001 especially after Beloki abandoned the Vuelta
The Hitch said:What is interesting about those results is that at even at the age of 24 his results were unremarkable. I wasnt watching cycling then but looking at it, would it be wrong to say that if you suggested when Sastre was 24, that he would go on to win the Grandady of them all, people would have laughed at you?
Makes me think, maybe 1 or 2 of the 20-25 year old riders, who have done nothing so far will go on to be big time gc contenders.
Im not even talking about your Dani Martin, or Roman Kreuzigers or even Agnoli, Mollema, people who have shown something,
Sastre came 108 in his first gt at 24.
Maybe Javier Aramendia will win the Tour after all.
Monte Zoncolon said:Well the results of Sastre's 3 Grand Tours in 2010 8th, 20th, 8th overall are startling in light of Jesus Monzana's statement: And even without it, but just as an example.
"Of course you could race without doping, but a cyclist would not be able to do the Tour and Vuelta, for example. You would be there, but there would be things you couldn't do because you would be at the limit. You would recover a little bit, but if your iron dropped, how would you recover?"
Not only did Carlos Sastre Ride and complete all three Grand Tours this year. He was competitive in each race. As I said 8th, 20th, 8th overall. Personally I do not believe that these kind performances are possible from a human physiological and psychological aspect. Without resorting to, how shall I put, ah putting Your Hand in the Cookie Jar. Not accusing Mr. Sastre, but these performances have to be questioned none the less. Sastre is 35 Years old. Not old by any means. Still a Young man. But as You get older it gets harder to recover from intense exercise. Can his grand Tour results of 2010 be compared to any other rider of the past 25 Years.
The Hitch said:You might say that thats impressive considering he did all 3 but the only one that was affected by that was the Vuelta. He was far more fresh for the Giro than just about anyone else, and he had a worse Tour than many others who did the Giro.
Monte Zoncolon said:Well the results of Sastre's 3 Grand Tours in 2010 8th, 20th, 8th overall are startling in light of Jesus Monzana's statement: And even without it, but just as an example.
"Of course you could race without doping, but a cyclist would not be able to do the Tour and Vuelta, for example. You would be there, but there would be things you couldn't do because you would be at the limit. You would recover a little bit, but if your iron dropped, how would you recover?"
Not only did Carlos Sastre Ride and complete all three Grand Tours this year. He was competitive in each race. As I said 8th, 20th, 8th overall. Personally I do not believe that these kind performances are possible from a human physiological and psychological aspect. Without resorting to, how shall I put, ah putting Your Hand in the Cookie Jar. Not accusing Mr. Sastre, but these performances have to be questioned none the less. Sastre is 35 Years old. Not old by any means. Still a Young man. But as You get older it gets harder to recover from intense exercise. Can his grand Tour results of 2010 be compared to any other rider of the past 25 Years.
You have a point, but to be fair that was his only low result. Anything could have happened in that Tour. Sickness or simply lack of interest. I don't think this would prove much unfortunately.The Hitch said:What is interesting about those results is that at even at the age of 24 his results were unremarkable. I wasnt watching cycling then but looking at it, would it be wrong to say that if you suggested when Sastre was 24, that he would go on to win the Grandady of them all, people would have laughed at you?
Makes me think, maybe 1 or 2 of the 20-25 year old riders, who have done nothing so far will go on to be big time gc contenders.
Im not even talking about your Dani Martin, or Roman Kreuzigers or even Agnoli, Mollema, people who have shown something,
Sastre came 108 in his first gt at 24.
Maybe Javier Aramendia will win the Tour after all.