Savio and Rujano

[Mongol_Waaijer]

This article is hilarious:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/savio-credits-androni-atmosphere-for-rujano-renaissance

Rider rides spectacularly well when riding for peloton's dirtiest team. Rides like he's wearing lead shorts on every other team.

I'm sure the journalist is making a joke here too....

"what's the magic formula on the Androni team?"

"Androni Atmosphere" must also mean something chemical.....

"I'm a good psychologist" - yep he gets average guys riding faster than the best riders in the world immediately prior to, and during the Giro. After all everyone knows that having an inspirational manager from a football background adds 100 watts to your FTP.

 

[doperhopper]

maybe good psychologist

but still not at the level of the masters of freudian introspection like Bruyneel/Carmichael/Ferrari

 

[Escarabajo]

Well, if he is doping now he probably was doping when he failed in those other European teams, so something else had to change. So maybe atmosphere was key probably to a better performance. Maybe they have a more structured program than in the other teams. Speculating here.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Atmosphere IS a key factor for Rujano, who is a notoriously difficult guy to motivate. His bad 2008 was mostly due to a case of mono. His 2010 results were pretty good until ISD weren't invited to the Giro, then they fell off the edge of the earth until he returned to South America.

Besides, Miche are surely the péloton's dodgiest team now?

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

Atmosphere IS a key factor for Rujano, who is a notoriously difficult guy to motivate. His bad 2008 was mostly due to a case of mono. His 2010 results were pretty good until ISD weren't invited to the Giro, then they fell off the edge of the earth until he returned to South America.

Besides, Miche are surely the péloton's dodgiest team now?

Some of those smaller Italian pro teams crack me up. Andronis team of pint sized climbers rode the sh*t out of a flat team TT a few weeks back, and in spring races in Italy seem to be as strong or stronger than top teams, peaking for the Giro, then going back to continental level for the remainder of the season.

Imagine if non PT French squads got an invite to a major French stage race - they would suck. But in the Giro equivalent Italian teams with dodgy riders and managers are always very strong.

 

[BullsFan22]

What's funny is that Savio talks about how he was brought up in 'football.' Considering it's Italian 'football,' that can only mean one thing: CHEATING.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Besides, Miche are surely the péloton's dodgiest team now?

There is some tough competition for that title: HGH, Astana, Cack, Saxo, BMC are all major contenders -

It's just the smaller teams don't have enough of a budget for the best programmes so they get busted most often.

There needs to be some kind of ranking criteria. Perhaps how many failed tests, number of busted riders on a comeback, DS's reputation, and factoring in the budget.

 

[Met de Versnelling]

Some of those smaller Italian pro teams crack me up. Andronis team of pint sized climbers rode the sh*t out of a flat team TT a few weeks back, and in spring races in Italy seem to be as strong or stronger than top teams, peaking for the Giro, then going back to continental level for the remainder of the season.

You know that sometimes the smaller climbers like Rujano can actually do a good TT naturally dont you? This is a formal Individual Pursuit rider we're talking about, with great power/weight ratio's, and naturally good aerodynamics through his size.

And a small Italian team targeting the early season italian races with a eye on the Giro? Well, that's a shocker innit?

Jesus christ...

 

[roundabout]

Uh

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/savio-caught-up-in-italian-doping-investigation

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/savio-mantova-investigation-damaging-for-italian-cycling

 

[craig1985]

But Rujano is South American, so he must be clean. Which is about as annoying as saying native English speakers are clean.

 

[taiwan]

Imagine if non PT French squads got an invite to a major French stage race - they would suck. But in the Giro equivalent Italian teams with dodgy riders and managers are always very strong.

One easy way to imagine that would be to rewatch the Tour, where Bouygues Telecom won two stages and the KOM jersey.

 

[roundabout]

One easy way to imagine that would be to rewatch the Tour, where Bouygues Telecom won two stages and the KOM jersey.

So 2 stages and KoM now compare to Rujano and Scarponi finishing 3rd and 4th on GC

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

This article is hilarious:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/savio-credits-androni-atmosphere-for-rujano-renaissance

Rider rides spectacularly well when riding for peloton's dirtiest team. Rides like he's wearing lead shorts on every other team.

Those teams were (are) every bit as dirty, IMO. Quick Step and Caisse, I mean... seriously.

Proven GC riders can be doped up to the proverbial gills, and not perform. It happens. Ask Iban Mayo, for example.

 

[taiwan]

So 2 stages and KoM now compare to Rujano and Scarponi finishing 3rd and 4th on GC

Not the same as Scarponi's 2010 result or Rujano's in 2005, but that's not sucking either, for the Tour. Nor is it right to say that Italian Pro Conti teams always do well at the Giro.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

You know that sometimes the smaller climbers like Rujano can actually do a good TT naturally dont you? This is a formal Individual Pursuit rider we're talking about, with great power/weight ratio's, and naturally good aerodynamics through his size.

And a small Italian team targeting the early season italian races with a eye on the Giro? Well, that's a shocker innit?

Jesus christ...

Ignoring the fact that an ex rider of Savio is claiming he was forced to dope by Savio himself, and before the Weylandt tragedy another rider was going to back him up.

power - weight ratio seems to mean less in a short flat TT - and if you read my post you'll see I was talking about a team TT.

When a team of 60kilo climbers beat rouleur squads on a flat team TT, and that team has doping accusations being levelled at them, and they always seem to be on an extra 25% prior to and during the giro then something doesn't add up.

This idea of "targetting" is a wel known fallacy anyway. Trying to peak for a particular goal doesn't improve your threshold power by 30% for a short time (blood doping might). The gains would be marginal. These guys on little teams who rip everyone's legs off at certain races but are off the back later in the year are highly suspicious in my mind.

 

[Zweistein]

Ignoring the fact that an ex rider of Savio is claiming he was forced to dope by Savio himself, and before the Weylandt tragedy another rider was going to back him up.

power - weight ratio seems to mean less in a short flat TT - and if you read my post you'll see I was talking about a team TT.

When a team of 60kilo climbers beat rouleur squads on a flat team TT, and that team has doping accusations being levelled at them, and they always seem to be on an extra 25% prior to and during the giro then something doesn't add up.

This idea of "targetting" is a wel known fallacy anyway. Trying to peak for a particular goal doesn't improve your threshold power by 30% for a short time (blood doping might). The gains would be marginal. These guys on little teams who rip everyone's legs off at certain races but are off the back later in the year are highly suspicious in my mind.

There was hardly that much time separating all the times. 15 seconds can be accounted for in a lot of places: poor relaying, someone riding too hard, poor spacing. Placing mid pack hardly a lot of suspicion.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

There was hardly that much time separating all the times. 15 seconds can be accounted for in a lot of places: poor relaying, someone riding too hard, poor spacing. Placing mid pack hardly a lot of suspicion.

i was talking about the settimana internazionale coppi e bartali team tt, that they won.

and what about the GP Industria on april 30th - in the top 12 there are 6(!) Androni riders....and the race was so hard (because Androni ripped the bunch to shreds) that there were only 38 finishers.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/gp-industria-and-artigianato-larciano-1-1/results

 

[ergmonkey]

Yeah, whenever I saw a young super-talent move over to Caisse, I always thought: 'no way he can keep up his results now that he won't have access to any drugs'.

Get over it. Yes, cycling has a doping problem. BUT, there are still plenty of other factors that a rider needs to get right if he wants to perform at his best, too.

I am not making an apology for doping, but I am saying that you can't chalk up anything and everything to how much a rider is or isn't doping.

 

[taiwan]

i was talking about the settimana internazionale coppi e bartali team tt, that they won.

and what about the GP Industria on april 30th - in the top 12 there are 6(!) Androni riders....and the race was so hard (because Androni ripped the bunch to shreds) that there were only 38 finishers.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/gp-industria-and-artigianato-larciano-1-1/results

So they're the strongest Italian Pro Conti team. Someone has to be. There's nothing to elevate this thread above the usual "they won = they dirty". If you aggregate these threads, everyone's dirty and there's no unique advantage in being such.

 

[Angliru]

Well, if he is doping now he probably was doping when he failed in those other European teams, so something else had to change. So maybe atmosphere was key probably to a better performance. Maybe they have a more structured program than in the other teams. Speculating here.

Savio has always had a high concentration of South American riders in his team. With that comes familarity with the culture of those riders. I imagine the atmosphere is likely more relaxed for Rujano than what it was with Quick Step and Unibet. Rujano may also be motivated to make amends with Savio after his less than amicable original departure from Savio's team.

 

[Angliru]

Not the same as Scarponi's 2010 result or Rujano's in 2005, but that's not sucking either, for the Tour. Nor is it right to say that Italian Pro Conti teams always do well at the Giro.

Or could it be that they do well because doing well at the Giro is the primary focus of their season because.......THEY'RE ITALIAN??

As you say though, they don't always do well.

 

[Duartista]

There is also an element here of Savio taking credit for Rujano's comeback - Rujano has been (very) good for the last couple of years.

It also seems fair to say that, if Androni are as supercharged as some say, one would expect Sella to be nearer his 2008 form. There's been little sign of that so far.