SBS and Cycling Central

[Galic Ho]

Just wondering if anyone here frequents the site?

What are your thoughts on their journalistic approach and feedback system?

What are your thoughts on the posters?

I'll start the ball rolling. I have long gotten the impression the mob qho frequent the site can take sole responsibility for the wide believe that aussies are gullible fools who by con merchants tinkering and BS peddling. I'm saying they haven't a clue about the machinations during a race and also the darker side of cycling that isn't transparent.

I don't mind their articles but the TV commentary and presentation leaves a lot to be desired. Over zealous and biased rampant patriotism are running unchecked. They do a good job with what they have, but don't do enough in my book. I almost wish I was born in France. On some level I think a nice positive by a big name aussie rider might wake some of them up.

Anyway I've had enough of that site and the BS on it. Few people contribute or add commentary and those who have in the past, like Blackcat, are balked at any time they mention a glaringly obvious inconsistency in people's thinking with respect to doping. Just wondering what everyone's experience and thinking is concerning SBS and their cycling body? Likes, dislikes?

I'll take these forums anyday of the week. More informed posters, who watch races and riders other than the aussies and events they tackle. I've learnt more in a month on this site than a year reading SBS media.

 

[Ferminal]

From a website point of view, it works very well. Active columnists with reader feedback on everything.

From the point of view as a fan, it's mediocre. People here often criticise CN for being late on breaking news (let's face it, Anglo sites will always be second best) but it's much better than Cycling Central.

The plus side is the Australian focus, so occasionally they will have stories about Aussies first, and sometimes do their own interviews and research etc. The columnists are "okay" but you're not missing out on much if you don't follow them. Anyone with an average knowledge of what's going on in pro cycling will have thought about the content of the article before they ever read it. It's not exactly ground-breaking blogging.

As for the posters it's mainly just a group of blind Aussie fanboys, as anyone who only half follows the sport would be. The fact that it has a culmulative like/dislike system only makes it more comical.

As far as SBS' TV coverage goes... thank god Eurosport is now here and we don't have to worry about 15mins highlights or delayed telecasts. All the classics, Giro, Vuelta, it's only the TdF I'm not sure about. Tomalaris is just a cycling fan and as such should act as a talking head and not make himself out to be an expert. Then there's Phil... The massive growth of the sport means that soon everything will be broadcast. SBS have always been around for the TdF, now One HD showed the Sun Tour and World Championships and Eurosport. I wouldn't be surprised to see Fox Sports entering the market soon.

 

[auscyclefan94]

The cycling central site is a great setup with highlights and lots of extra videos...

My problem is the actual coverage and the people who are involved.

Tomolaris is a soccer journalist who came to cycling. He is obsessed with Lance and can be critical of evans a bit...Simply a tool

Matt keenan's knowledge is great, he is a great commentator and a guy I thoroughly enjoy listening to. One of the best in the world...

The editor of the the site Phil Gomes is a good journo and speaks a lot of sense, a guy i'd like to see more of.

Anthony Tan, the former cyclingnews journo is not great, he talks crap and doesn't check out his facts when making comments.

Dave Mckenzie is a bit of a suck to Armstrong and acts like he knows it all... A bit mediocre, not bad but not great.

Overall, the cycling coverage by SBS is aa 5.5/10

If they don't improve their amount of coverage, ONE HD will get the coverage. We get 1 live classic race which is paris Roubaix, 1/2 an hour highlights of the the giro, live tour stages and 15 minute highlights of la vuelta. On ONe HD we had the Worlds live which was awesome. WE will be getting 3 live TDU stages which is awesome.

I think if they could have a few more live stages of the giro (especially with cadel riding) and maybe a classic like liege, fleche or Ronde live that would be great.

 

[Galic Ho]

As far as SBS' TV coverage goes... thank god Eurosport is now here and we don't have to worry about 15mins highlights or delayed telecasts.

Can you elaborate a bit more on Eurosport. Free to air or pay tv? Either way if I can get it I will definitely try. I'd love to not have to watch online with low resolution footage.

Got to say I agree with both Ferminal and Aussiecyclefan94. I do like the editor Phil but the others leave a lot to be desired. I find the Tan Man to be funny with his interpreatations. Mike is a socccer convert who is purely a fan. My favourite moment for the year was Mike Tomalaris interviewing some self-professed expert at the end of Mt.Ventoux with Garate's win. The "100 km winds on the mountain" was too much. That is gale force winds and cars would have been blown off the road along with 50% of the "half a million" estimated spectators. Where was the common sense to pull him up? It wasn't there. I guess after 9 years (ok 7 cause they have been eroding my patience since 2007) I've come to a stage where I can tolerate some of the stupidity and foolishness, but I pick up on everything they interpret or present in either a misguided or deliberately false manner. It adds up with every day of the Tour, because someone says something incredibly daft every telecast.

Don't mistake my annoyance with disrespect. I'm grateful they have a service, otherwise I probably would have little interest in cycling, but I feel now is the time to evolve their product and service. As Ferminal put it, their online service is an avenue for casual fanboys (who have limited knowledge of the sport) to congregate.

 

[El Imbatido]

Can you elaborate a bit more on Eurosport. Free to air or pay tv? Either way if I can get it I will definitely try. I'd love to not have to watch online with low resolution footage.

Paytv has Eurosport now. They used to have Eurosportnews and that was it. But now they have actually got proper Eurosprt channels. So i assume it willl be International Eurosport which is good because it always has cycling on. Just about every race and almost everything live. Except races that clash ie. P-N & T-A. And i love Dave Harmon and Shaun Kelly so much better than the lance lovers Phil and Paul just droning on about Sir Lance.

Im pretty sure that you just have to get the sports package and you will get it. My neighbours just changed their Foxtel plan and i think they have it. (Looks like i'll have to read up on how to steal foxtel) I don't think the basic package has it. Not 100% sure though

Got to say I agree with both Ferminal and Aussiecyclefan94. I do like the editor Phil but the others leave a lot to be desired. I find the Tan Man to be funny with his interpreatations. Mike is a socccer convert who is purely a fan.I've come to a stage where I can tolerate some of the stupidity and foolishness, but I pick up on everything they interpret or present in either a misguided or deliberately false manner. It adds up with every day of the Tour, because someone says something incredibly daft every telecast.

Regarding Cyclingcentral i've never really used it becasue of the couple of times i have been there (during this years tour) it just seemed like Cadel Fanboy central and no one would take any kind of point of view except Cadel. So basically Galic you are just saying nothing has changed.

 

[Greg Johnson]

If they don't improve their amount of coverage, ONE HD will get the coverage. We get 1 live classic race which is paris Roubaix, 1/2 an hour highlights of the the giro, live tour stages and 15 minute highlights of la vuelta. On ONe HD we had the Worlds live which was awesome. WE will be getting 3 live TDU stages which is awesome.

I think if they could have a few more live stages of the giro (especially with cadel riding) and maybe a classic like liege, fleche or Ronde live that would be great.

I know all of the people you've critiqued, so I'll leave that one alone.

As for depth of coverage (I will presume you're talking about broadcast more than online) you're perhaps right in that they need to continue increasing their commitment to more races, longer broadcasts, live where possible.

However, I believe it should also be acknowledged that it has been very active on this front. They broadcast more in 2009 than they have in any year before it, and that's a trend that's continued for many years. It might have been a slow evolution, but they have commercial realities and have had to develop an economy out of it as interest in the sport expanded.

For the sake of competition, which is always good for consumers, I hope OneHD continues its push to cover more races. I only hope that it's motives are genuine - SBS has done much to support and grow the sport itself, whereas Network Ten has suddenly found itself with another 168 hours of programing vacancies that it needs to fill with sport and it may be that they're simply filling those slots without any actual interest in the sport. That becomes a problem if it becomes too hard for SBS to compete for rights, and has to reduce its commitment, then OneHD wins back the V8 Supercar rights and a slice of the NRL rights in a few years time, as cycling's expense.

Cheers
Greg Johnson

 

[auscyclefan94]

I know all of the people you've critiqued, so I'll leave that one alone.
As for depth of coverage (I will presume you're talking about broadcast more than online) you're perhaps right in that they need to continue increasing their commitment to more races, longer broadcasts, live where possible.

However, I believe it should also be acknowledged that it has been very active on this front. They broadcast more in 2009 than they have in any year before it, and that's a trend that's continued for many years. It might have been a slow evolution, but they have commercial realities and have had to develop an economy out of it as interest in the sport expanded.

For the sake of competition, which is always good for consumers, I hope OneHD continues its push to cover more races. I only hope that it's motives are genuine - SBS has done much to support and grow the sport itself, whereas Network Ten has suddenly found itself with another 168 hours of programing vacancies that it needs to fill with sport and it may be that they're simply filling those slots without any actual interest in the sport. That becomes a problem if it becomes too hard for SBS to compete for rights, and has to reduce its commitment, then OneHD wins back the V8 Supercar rights and a slice of the NRL rights in a few years time, as cycling's expense.

Cheers
Greg Johnson

You may think I am being a bit mean for saying that but I am telling you a lot of people who watch SBS's cycling coverage or use cycling central find most of those guys and mainly tomo very undereducated about cycling and feel that their are better people out their that could do the job. Tomo is a soccer journo and really turns people off the way he blubbers over lance and is a bit of a hipocrit.

Just read this blog of his from Cycling central from earlier this year and then read the comments on him and then you will see the reason why he is not overly respected as a cycling journo/commentator.

http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral/blog-article/109005/Where-is-Cadel-br

 

[rgmerk]

Broadcasting is a commercial enterprise

However, I believe it should also be acknowledged that it has been very active on this front. They broadcast more in 2009 than they have in any year before it, and that's a trend that's continued for many years. It might have been a slow evolution, but they have commercial realities and have had to develop an economy out of it as interest in the sport expanded.

For the sake of competition, which is always good for consumers, I hope OneHD continues its push to cover more races. I only hope that it's motives are genuine - SBS has done much to support and grow the sport itself, whereas Network Ten has suddenly found itself with another 168 hours of programing vacancies that it needs to fill with sport and it may be that they're simply filling those slots without any actual interest in the sport. That becomes a problem if it becomes too hard for SBS to compete for rights, and has to reduce its commitment, then OneHD wins back the V8 Supercar rights and a slice of the NRL rights in a few years time, as cycling's expense.

OneHD and, to a large extent these days, SBS (which is like Britain's Channel Four - government-owned, but runs ads), telecast cycling because it's a profitable way to fill the gaps between advertiseements.

That's not to criticise either organization - they, like everybody else, are trying to make a buck.

The good news for cycling fans outside Europe is that, in the long term, broadcasters will become increasingly irrelevant. You'll be able to stream live coverage from any race with a TV camera pointing at it, to anywhere in the world.

 

[Galic Ho]

OneHD and, to a large extent these days, SBS (which is like Britain's Channel Four - government-owned, but runs ads), telecast cycling because it's a profitable way to fill the gaps between advertisements.

That's not to criticise either organization - they, like everybody else, are trying to make a buck.

The good news for cycling fans outside Europe is that, in the long term, broadcasters will become increasingly irrelevant. You'll be able to stream live coverage from any race with a TV camera pointing at it, to anywhere in the world.

I agree with that. Since SBS executives and the government gave the greenlight for SBS to accept paid advertisements they have evolved their overall product. It is good. Remember what it was like before the adverts were allowed? Though it is sad more sponsors don't jump onto the coverage they provide. I don't know how many times a night I saw that LG tv advert with the peloton interrupting the man putting in his backyard. Too many for my liking, but they can only put on what has been paid for.

As for Ten in all its forms, they've been the best sports broadcasters in most wheeled sport formats for the past decade. I don't see why they would not prosper and excel if they diversify into cycling. I certainly won't complain as it was great to see the Mountain Bikes and Road World Championships (except when they cut out 3 hours in the roads).

 

[Galic Ho]

You may think I am being a bit mean for saying that but I am telling you a lot of people who watch SBS's cycling coverage or use cycling central find most of those guys and mainly tomo very undereducated about cycling and feel that their are better people out their that could do the job. Tomo is a soccer journo and really turns people off the way he blubbers over lance and is a bit of a hipocrit.

Just read this blog of his from Cycling central from earlier this year and then read the comments on him and then you will see the reason why he is not overly respected as a cycling journo/commentator.

http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral/blog-article/109005/Where-is-Cadel-br

Can't say I disagree. But a lot of casual fans have the wool pulled over their eyes and assume because he is a presenter he is informed. Most presenters on commercial networks are far from experts. Opinionated yes, but often ignorate, hypocritical and misinformed. Remember channel 7s breakfast panel from Beijing? They had no clue. I knew more about the sports and athletes than all of them combined. Sadly casual viewers don't, so they don't appreciate the inadequacies that people like you and I recognise and hate, AusCycle.

I don't hate Tomo, but I've called him out on some of his hypocritical stances. Sometimes they were posted, others they weren't. Hands down this forum is better. Reliable, accurate, informed and consistent quality posters. Plus funnier as well and with a Babes on Bikes section! Can't top that.

 

[mherm79]

i agree that SBS coverage and cycling central are Aussie biased...but then again the majority of their audience is only interested in Aussie stories / riders.

They have done a lot to grow the popularity of cycling locally, which has been helped by our riders doing better overseas and the TDU gaining Pro status.

The fact that they have taken that responsibility means that they are targeting a 'green' audience. This is why the Giro only gets short highlights -coz Aussies don't feature much in the race. If Cadel has a real crack at the Giro this years I'm sure that will change.

 

[rgmerk]

i agree that SBS coverage and cycling central are Aussie biased...but then again the majority of their audience is only interested in Aussie stories / riders.

They have done a lot to grow the popularity of cycling locally, which has been helped by our riders doing better overseas and the TDU gaining Pro status.

The fact that they have taken that responsibility means that they are targeting a 'green' audience. This is why the Giro only gets short highlights -coz Aussies don't feature much in the race. If Cadel has a real crack at the Giro this years I'm sure that will change.

Sure, SBS pays disproportionate attention to Aussie riders, but no more than any other network in the world focuses on its nationals. Watch the American coverage of the Olympic Games and see how much airtime foreign athletes receive...

As for the relative prominence of the Giro on SBS, it's my understanding that that is as much the fault of the organizers and the host broadcaster as anything else. French television gives the Tour pictures away very cheap; the Giro footage (which isn't done nearly as well, IIRC) is much more expensive and by default comes with the worst commentary you've ever heard (to the point that SBS had to replace the commentary with Matt Keenan after viewers rebelled).

Giving the Tour footage away has, of course, paid off big-time for the Tour organizers.

 

[Ferminal]

Can't say I disagree. But a lot of casual fans have the wool pulled over their eyes and assume because he is a presenter he is informed. Most presenters on commercial networks are far from experts. Opinionated yes, but often ignorate, hypocritical and misinformed. Remember channel 7s breakfast panel from Beijing? They had no clue. I knew more about the sports and athletes than all of them combined. Sadly casual viewers don't, so they don't appreciate the inadequacies that people like you and I recognise and hate, AusCycle.

I don't hate Tomo, but I've called him out on some of his hypocritical stances. Sometimes they were posted, others they weren't. Hands down this forum is better. Reliable, accurate, informed and consistent quality posters. Plus funnier as well and with a Babes on Bikes section! Can't top that.

It's a big problem across the board I think, there are few commentators/experts who have a full understanding of the sports they are involved in.

You only have to watch Channel 9's cricket coverage where most of them only follow cricket in the summer and are completely clueless on what happens February-November be it Australia or international sides. Mr. Benaud is still the most knowledgeable of the lot.

AFL is a bit different, there are a few acceptable callers, but most of the "experts" (see recently retired players or ancient coaches) so obviously show their bias it's sickening. Plus they don't really know how to adequately communicate what they know.

There are a few excellent sports presenters around, but more often than not they are surrounded by incompetent ones. The problem is that if a broadcaster owns the rights to that event, you have to watch it no matter who is talking.

I think I'm definitely more likely to watch more of a telecast if the presentation is solid.

The conclusions of the TdF stages are underwhelming. I know it feels good to have Tomolaris + 1 on the road in France but it gets repetitive because it's such an on the spot and rushed thing. They could throw a few experts (if there are any) in a studio to provide a much cleaner summary whilst keeping someone in France to get additional interviews. I think TEN/ONE's F1 coverage works reasonably well in that respect, they introduce and conclude the telecast but also make a few comments after each commercial break (they use the BBC race telecast).

As far as I'm aware the TdF is a fairly good performer for SBS but the casual viewer only looks for cycling on TV when the TdF is on. If you played on people's patriotism in marketing you could get people watching outside of July. 2010 is a better year than any, people would not be able to resist watching every race our World Champion competes in.

 

[mherm79]

As far as I'm aware the TdF is a fairly good performer for SBS but the casual viewer only looks for cycling on TV when the TdF is on. If you played on people's patriotism in marketing you could get people watching outside of July. 2010 is a better year than any, people would not be able to resist watching every race our World Champion competes in.

Totally agree. The Worlds will be huge for SBS and should also see a lot of people on the streets.

the TDU will get a lot of attention thanks to the strong field.

Given Cadel is in the rainbow I'd expect the calling to over the top biased too.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Totally agree. The Worlds will be huge for SBS and should also see a lot of people on the streets.

the TDU will get a lot of attention thanks to the strong field.

Given Cadel is in the rainbow I'd expect the calling to over the top biased too.

ONE HD has the worlds, unless u mean that cadel's worlds victory will be good for coverage.

 

[Galic Ho]

It's a big problem across the board I think, there are few commentators/experts who have a full understanding of the sports they are involved in.

You only have to watch Channel 9's cricket coverage where most of them only follow cricket in the summer and are completely clueless on what happens February-November be it Australia or international sides. Mr. Benaud is still the most knowledgeable of the lot.

AFL is a bit different, there are a few acceptable callers, but most of the "experts" (see recently retired players or ancient coaches) so obviously show their bias it's sickening. Plus they don't really know how to adequately communicate what they know.

There are a few excellent sports presenters around, but more often than not they are surrounded by incompetent ones. The problem is that if a broadcaster owns the rights to that event, you have to watch it no matter who is talking.

I think I'm definitely more likely to watch more of a telecast if the presentation is solid.

The conclusions of the TdF stages are underwhelming. I know it feels good to have Tomolaris + 1 on the road in France but it gets repetitive because it's such an on the spot and rushed thing. They could throw a few experts (if there are any) in a studio to provide a much cleaner summary whilst keeping someone in France to get additional interviews. I think TEN/ONE's F1 coverage works reasonably well in that respect, they introduce and conclude the telecast but also make a few comments after each commercial break (they use the BBC race telecast).

As far as I'm aware the TdF is a fairly good performer for SBS but the casual viewer only looks for cycling on TV when the TdF is on. If you played on people's patriotism in marketing you could get people watching outside of July. 2010 is a better year than any, people would not be able to resist watching every race our World Champion competes in.

I was under the impression ITV broadcast the F1 in Britain. It is my favourite sport. Martin Brundle is the new Murray Walker, thus he is shocking. His old commentating partner (who replaced Walker) should have been kept and Brundle fired and replaced with the newer guy. They'd have made an awesome team.

As for channel 10, the reason the commentary and format is quality amounts to intelligence. Part of the reason why they consistently receive the best sports broadcast award at the Logies and various other ceremonies. It was a national crime when they lost the V8s (not that I watch), because they are so far ahead of 7 in presentation, preparation and understanding of the product, package and audience. Sadly, money talks and quality can often be bought.

 

[Big GMaC]

I was under the impression ITV broadcast the F1 in Britain.

BBC took over the rights at the start of the past season, much better coverage tbh...

 

[Ferminal]

I was under the impression ITV broadcast the F1 in Britain. It is my favourite sport. Martin Brundle is the new Murray Walker, thus he is shocking. His old commentating partner (who replaced Walker) should have been kept and Brundle fired and replaced with the newer guy. They'd have made an awesome team.

As for channel 10, the reason the commentary and format is quality amounts to intelligence. Part of the reason why they consistently receive the best sports broadcast award at the Logies and various other ceremonies. It was a national crime when they lost the V8s (not that I watch), because they are so far ahead of 7 in presentation, preparation and understanding of the product, package and audience. Sadly, money talks and quality can often be bought.

As above BBC got the rights for 2009 onwards.

James Allen was a joke, biased, stupid, the lot. Regardless, Jonathon Legard was always going to get the main commentator's role and James Allen would never be a #2. Plus he doesn't have (or at least never expressed) knowledge on the level of Brundle. The alternatives to Brundle... DC? No Scots thanks

 

[Galic Ho]

As above BBC got the rights for 2009 onwards.

James Allen was a joke, biased, stupid, the lot. Regardless, Jonathon Legard was always going to get the main commentator's role and James Allen would never be a #2. Plus he doesn't have (or at least never expressed) knowledge on the level of Brundle. The alternatives to Brundle... DC? No Scots thanks

I forget the names Legard and Allen. James may have been biased but he could at least name the correct driver in a specific car. Brundle has too many Walker incidents, much like Phil and his identification of riders (they make too many mistakes for my liking). Ego's aside, Brundle's only benefit is that he drove in F1. Knowledge? More like useless facts that mean sweet f%#k all about the current actions on track. When Damon Hill commentated a few seasons back we got to see true insight and relevant knowledge. Pity he is busy elsewhere, because he is quality. It was good to see Webbber score a win, so he could lose his record for the most races in F1 without a win. A title that now returns to Brundle.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I forget the names Legard and Allen. James may have been biased but he could at least name the correct driver in a specific car. Brundle has too many Walker incidents, much like Phil and his identification of riders (they make too many mistakes for my liking). Ego's aside, Brundle's only benefit is that he drove in F1. Knowledge? More like useless facts that mean sweet f%#k all about the current actions on track. When Damon Hill commentated a few seasons back we got to see true insight and relevant knowledge. Pity he is busy elsewhere, because he is quality. It was good to see Webbber score a win, so he could lose his record for the most races in F1 without a win. A title that now returns to Brundle.

F1... so boring! The races are decided on the first few laps, not crashing or not braking down. Who would watch that type of sport?