Schleck - chasing AC after the mechanical - too good to be true?

[D Avoid]

you don't know what you are talking about it okie when sleck was passing the others the group was taking easy too reach the top not too burn too much energy sleck give all but on the descent and the flat lose time cause he pay the effort he made on the ascension if he was on drug he would catch up no problems my friend you never be a professional cycling i have okie .

It's a lovely word "okie", darts? Or are you saying OK? Either one is okie/OK with me, just as long as my desperate need to undertiendo is gratified.

 

[D Avoid]

I went for, "Andys lean and very Gallanted", whereas AlCon is Spanish and very much at home with being away with the Frencships. He may sink though, if there is another squall.

 

[luckyboy]

Could pretty much tell that was adrenaline. He was shaking when he was trying to fix the chain.

Still think you have to dope to be up there in GT's though, this hasn't changed my opinion either way.

 

[cyclestationgiuseppe]

AFAIC, I'm pretty certain now of one rider in this year's TdF who IS doping: Andy Schleck. I base this on watching him chase AC, up the mountain, after AS dropped his chain. AS was passing EVERYBODY like they were standing still! This was way too much like the Landis solo - just too good to be true. It reminds me of Pantani. It's not like those riders he was passing were from the pack. And, as we now know, LA may have chosen NOT to latch on as AS passed, but those other guys? They all wanted time in the worst way! I think that little chase scene forced AS to reveal his "advantage".

I'd be interested in opposing opinions, but what has surprised me is that nobody else has said anything about this. Did anybody else pick up on it? I sure hope the WADA marshalls were paying attention.

I voted yes but disagree with your premise that he is the "only one" on some sort of "program". IE: they are all on some sort of program, right up to top of what the biopassport will allow.

 

[Big GMaC]

IMO schleck and contador are doped to the gills
the next lot of riders are doped but a lot less than usual
the next lot of riders are barely doping, maybe just recovery
and below that there are even some clean ones.

Dim, define 'Doped to the gills'

Armstong 99-05 / Pantani = Doped to gills go up the west side of tourmalet in c.45mins (and it wasn't hte final climb either)

Contador and Andy Schleck go up in c.55 mins in an admittedly more relaxed group but still, I don't think 'Doped to the gills' is really as applicable as it has been

 

[hrotha]

Dim, define 'Doped to the gills'

Armstong 99-05 / Pantani = Doped to gills go up the west side of tourmalet in c.45mins (and it wasn't hte final climb either)

Contador and Andy Schleck go up in c.55 mins in an admittedly more relaxed group but still, I don't think 'Doped to the gills' is really as applicable as it has been

I take "doped to the gills" to mean "as doped as you can get away with at any given time". It's all relative.

 

[hiero2]

I take "doped to the gills" to mean "as doped as you can get away with at any given time". It's all relative.

I voted yes but disagree with your premise that he is the "only one" on some sort of "program". IE: they are all on some sort of program, right up to top of what the biopassport will allow.

Well, that's some pretty clear thinking, imho. Altho, I tend to think that a majority of the riders in the last couple years are doing without anything stronger than food supplements. If we can get back to the level of benefit offered by ephedra and caffeine, I'll be happy (and I also note the wattage and pace currently seem to support this).

Since we've got a lot of ppl who think the short rest/adrenaline scenario is plausible, I'll kinda sit down. My experience on mountains tho, was that of watching the extent of my peripheral vision get smaller as I fought with oxygen deprivation - and controlling my effort based on that, while I tried to keep up with the George Hincapies of the group. I realize that AS wasn't climbing at that level of effort. Aw, shucks, I'll just have to face it - I'm still suspicious. And I still tend to think this effort was made possible because AS was more "dopay" than the rest.

Recognizing I could be wrong, thanks for a fun thread and all the interesting thoughts!

Cheers to all!

 

[elepCR]

Actually, it took only about 24 seconds from the moment AC goes past AS to the moment Schleck is back on his bicycle. 15 seconds at the top give us a small gain of 9 seconds. On top of that, Contador did not look like he was riding very hard.

 

[ellenbrook2001]

yes you rigth at 100%

 

[oncehadhair]

AFAIC, I'm pretty certain now of one rider in this year's TdF who IS doping: Andy Schleck. I base this on watching him chase AC, up the mountain, after AS dropped his chain. AS was passing EVERYBODY like they were standing still! This was way too much like the Landis solo - just too good to be true. It reminds me of Pantani. It's not like those riders he was passing were from the pack. And, as we now know, LA may have chosen NOT to latch on as AS passed, but those other guys? They all wanted time in the worst way! I think that little chase scene forced AS to reveal his "advantage".

I'd be interested in opposing opinions, but what has surprised me is that nobody else has said anything about this. Did anybody else pick up on it? I sure hope the WADA marshalls were paying attention.

Noone can ride like a man who is angry and feeling like he has been wronged.

Don't you remember Lance (after unsuccessfully trying to steal a little girls handbag (2003?), and the little girl pulling him off his bike) steaming up the mountain to catch Ullrich (who had slowed for him anyway) under the incredible influence of anger and testosterone?

So you can imagine how fast Schleck was able to go (he's got twice as much testosterone as Lance). No drugs needed.

 

[hiero2]

Noone can ride like a man who is angry and feeling like he has been wronged.

Don't you remember Lance (after unsuccessfully trying to steal a little girls handbag (2003?), and the little girl pulling him off his bike) steaming up the mountain to catch Ullrich (who had slowed for him anyway) under the incredible influence of anger and testosterone?

So you can imagine how fast Schleck was able to go (he's got twice as much testosterone as Lance). No drugs needed.

LOL!

O, ya, I remember that scene!

BTW, on the serious answer side, for anybody who has come to this thread late, check out the Lemond post that links to the science cycling site. Also check out cozybeehive's work - and that French guy (Portoleau?) who gets linked by cozy and the scientificcycling site. Very good metrics, excellent, actually, which indicate that, if Schleck is dopay, he isn't doing it to an unbelievable extent, and this performance was within the realm of 'humanly possible'.

 

[samerics]

For what it's worth, I'll relate this to you, try not to get too bored...

I was mountainbiking a few years ago when I hit a patch of shale on a slope. The front end had washed out and, because I had been too lazy to change my cleats on my old SPD shoes, I slid for quite away with my foot stuck in the pedal and in the process managed to skin my leg right down to the tissue under the skin. It was a horrible mess, I had stones in my knee and my leg was skinned. I washed it and my mates suggested I wait and that they would pick me up. I declined because we were only 10 miles from the cars.

The fact is that when I set off I was like a bat out of hell, the guys who normally kicked my **** couldn't keep anywhere near me and were crying out for me to back off, but my natural adrenalin had given me a massive boost, which became apparent when it started to run out a few miles on and I slowed to the point that they had to wait.

The point of my endless waffle is that adrenalin can make a huge difference, and Schleck's effort proved nothing other than his anger. This forum does get a tad paranoid!

 

[whocares]

One thing I have gathered is that all top performers in the sport will be accused of doping in this forum by someone. Instead of "The Clinic", how about entitling this forum "The Speculation Zone"?

 

[karlboss]

I saw somewhere this effort was 5 min at 6.8watts per kilo...as opposed to 6.8 to 7 for 40 minute passes in the past. By his SRM chris anker sorenson was pulling 6.6s for 10 minutes at the start of climbs.

 

[Ferminal]

One thing I have gathered is that all top performers in the sport will be accused of doping in this forum by someone. Instead of "The Clinic", how about entitling this forum "The Speculation Zone"?

Well, historically all the top performers have doped...