Schleck - chasing AC after the mechanical - too good to be true?

[hiero2]

AFAIC, I'm pretty certain now of one rider in this year's TdF who IS doping: Andy Schleck. I base this on watching him chase AC, up the mountain, after AS dropped his chain. AS was passing EVERYBODY like they were standing still! This was way too much like the Landis solo - just too good to be true. It reminds me of Pantani. It's not like those riders he was passing were from the pack. And, as we now know, LA may have chosen NOT to latch on as AS passed, but those other guys? They all wanted time in the worst way! I think that little chase scene forced AS to reveal his "advantage".

I'd be interested in opposing opinions, but what has surprised me is that nobody else has said anything about this. Did anybody else pick up on it? I sure hope the WADA marshalls were paying attention.

 

[hrotha]

Errr... he passed everybody because those riders had already been dropped and were just pacing themselves at an adequate speed, while AS was practically sprinting. Once he ran out of steam he wasn't going faster than the leaders. It was a short effort.

If AS was capable of doing that sort of thing for any extended period of time like you suggest, he would have done it already to drop AC and not have to gamble everything on the Tourmalet.

 

[Darryl Webster]

I noticed it but I also saw it as massive effort "in the red" cus if he didnt make it back before the top he`d struggle to on the descent, run in. And so it proved to be the case. Those he passed were not in the same position of knowing ta TDF win potential depended on those few minutes and certainly wernt riding that hill like the top was the finish.
Thats how I read things.
Is Shleck clean?..dubios, but I`m dubious about a lot of things.

"Cleaner" is I think what were witnessing.

 

[hiero2]

I've thot about that - short effort, the others were just riding tempo to make the top. I don't buy it.

At that point on the mountain - the fact that he COULD sprint for - what was left to the top, 3K? - that long, and that nobody else could even consider matching him? Imo, it wasn't that "short" an effort - it wasn't a 500 meter acceleration - he sustained that effort and was making time on the AC group. And, I do think some of those guys he passed would have gone with him, if they could have. They apparently couldn't even consider doing so from the tv coverage I saw.

 

[hiero2]

"Cleaner" is I think what were witnessing.

Ya - I think you're right on that one.

 

[sherer]

do we really need a thread for every single attack and stage win a rider has. Why no thread about Voekler winning the stage or any of the breaks he has been in ?

he already showed he was strong by the initial attack and just carried that through. he is a younger and better rider than all those be passed and the AC group was still unsure about whether to continue or wait hence the closing of the gap

 

[hiero2]

If AS was capable of doing that sort of thing for any extended period of time like you suggest, he would have done it already to drop AC and not have to gamble everything on the Tourmalet.

I'm not so sure. We've watched AS and AC play footsies on two major climbs before on this tour. And neither one seemed to have the knockout punch, granted. So, IMO, it was the Riis/AS plan to attack today, and we saw AS launch. What strikes me is not the difference between AS and AC, but the variance from AS to the other top riders who he was passing on that road - riders who, based on their performances, seem to be riding clean this year. And, riders who were also concerned about their place on GC, and who have been riding to conserve strength for GC performances.

So, maybe I'm wrong, but AS's performance still has me convinced.

 

[sars1981]

I dont rate the logic of determining who is doping by examining performance relative to other riders. They are all doping. Including Schleck and many of the other riders travelling in the autobus.

 

[redtreviso]

In spite of the panic his legs got a rest from the time his chain came off until he got it back on.. It is certainly not as if he did a absurd Sestriere or anything.

 

[roundabout]

He passed and caught riders that he proved he can drop in this Tour, so beats me how that particular moment would make anyone convinced of doping.

 

[hiero2]

do we really need a thread for every single attack and stage win a rider has. Why no thread about Voekler winning the stage or any of the breaks he has been in ?

Voeckler? I think that would be in this thread - http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=8855

Imo, Voeckler is probably one of the cleaner riders in the peloton - I remember his marvelous struggle in 2004 (if memory serves). My god that was brave. And, very typical of Voeckler - catch a good break, ride bravely. While Tom Voeckler's performance in 2004 was courageous and quite a struggle, I've never seen him do (what I thot to be) a "too good to be true" effort.

Has anybody calculated the watts for AS during that effort?

 

[LKing25]

It wasnt like he smashed 5 mountains in a row like Landis in 2006 or laughing like Basso as he climbed the Mortirolo pre puerto

 

[Big GMaC]

Voeckler? I think that would be in this thread - http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=8855

Imo, Voeckler is probably one of the cleaner riders in the peloton - I remember his marvelous struggle in 2004 (if memory serves). My god that was brave. And, very typical of Voeckler - catch a good break, ride bravely. While Tom Voeckler's performance in 2004 was courageous and quite a struggle, I've never seen him do (what I thot to be) a "too good to be true" effort.

Has anybody calculated the watts for AS during that effort?

This year all of the watts have been down. Way down.

In the 90's they would have gone up the whole mountain at the speed that AS attacked at!

That was a very short effort and when he was attacking to catch up he would have been on a phemonmenal adrenaline burst, massive, and it still was a very short effort from the chain drop to the summit.

That really doesn't make me believe. I think it is much cleaner than in the past and I am one of the very sceptical people, I wouldn't say everyone, even everyone in the bus is at it

 

[The Hitch]

there are reasons to suspect Andy is doping, but his performance after the chain thing is not one of those reasons.

 

[Apolitical]

I've made some pretty darn amazing efforts after mechanicals and minor crashes in races. Adrenaline kicks in, heat of the moment.... I was more suprised AS didn't catch up.

 

[goober]

AFAIC, I'm pretty certain now of one rider in this year's TdF who IS doping: Andy Schleck. I base this on watching him chase AC, up the mountain, after AS dropped his chain. AS was passing EVERYBODY like they were standing still! This was way too much like the Landis solo - just too good to be true. It reminds me of Pantani. It's not like those riders he was passing were from the pack. And, as we now know, LA may have chosen NOT to latch on as AS passed, but those other guys? They all wanted time in the worst way! I think that little chase scene forced AS to reveal his "advantage".

I'd be interested in opposing opinions, but what has surprised me is that nobody else has said anything about this. Did anybody else pick up on it? I sure hope the WADA marshalls were paying attention.

I doubt anyone on here can answer anything other than "I don't know" or "I don't care" - answering any other way is lying to yourself unless you are Andy or have physically seen him dope. Might be better to write speculative answers next time like "I think Andy is clean" instead of "No, Andy's clean".

 

[hiero2]

What fun!

I've made some pretty darn amazing efforts after mechanicals and minor crashes in races. Adrenaline kicks in, heat of the moment.... I was more suprised AS didn't catch up.

Hmmm - consensus at this moment seems to be that the effort was too short, and given the adrenaline rush (which I can agree with), it was a "possible". Meh, ok then. I have to go back a ways for my racing years, so my memory of post crash or mechanical efforts is less clear.

 

[Straßenrennen]

I've made some pretty darn amazing efforts after mechanicals and minor crashes in races. Adrenaline kicks in, heat of the moment.... I was more suprised AS didn't catch up.

x2. Didnt think he would catch up.. but wasnt surpised about his "effort".

 

[Cervelo77]

Short rest while getting his chain back on + adrenaline + passing already dropped riders + short climb to the summit = nothing to see here.

 

[Christian]

Short rest while getting his chain back on + adrenaline + passing already dropped riders + short climb to the summit = nothing to see here.

Yep exactly adrenaline is the word.

He must have been scared sh*tless that second since he was about to lose the TdF due to a freaking mechanical, so his adrenaline went way up and enabled him to do this extraordinary, yet relatively short performance.

Imagine you're being chased by a bear, somehow you can run much faster.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

Watching it occur, it looked to be more of an adrenaline burst. Dope or not, the human body <can> put out a massive amount of effort when under duress.

What I think i saw was AS making a monster adrenaline burst, knowing his YJ was under siege of a most un-sportsman-like attack.

Is AS doping? Perhaps.

Is AC doping? Perhaps.

Should they be doping, it should come as no great surprise. I do not view the burst of speed, after he got his new bike, as clearly and directly attributable to doping.

 

[Publicus]

I've thot about that - short effort, the others were just riding tempo to make the top. I don't buy it.

At that point on the mountain - the fact that he COULD sprint for - what was left to the top, 3K? - that long, and that nobody else could even consider matching him? Imo, it wasn't that "short" an effort - it wasn't a 500 meter acceleration - he sustained that effort and was making time on the AC group. And, I do think some of those guys he passed would have gone with him, if they could have. They apparently couldn't even consider doing so from the tv coverage I saw.

Well he did have about a minute to catch his breath as he messed around with his chain, so he could recovered a bit more than the other guys who didn't get that little respite.

 

[Anonymous]

IMO schleck and contador are doped to the gills
the next lot of riders are doped but a lot less than usual
the next lot of riders are barely doping, maybe just recovery
and below that there are even some clean ones.

 

[Señor_Contador]

Perico Delgado said something about it on Spanish TV.

He said that Andy's impressive climbing (right after the chain incident) was purely adrenaline-driven, that he had gone through similar situations.

 

[ellenbrook2001]

you don't know what you are talking about it okie when sleck was passing the others the group was taking easy too reach the top not too burn too much energy sleck give all but on the descent and the flat lose time cause he pay the effort he made on the ascension if he was on drug he would catch up no problems my friend you never be a professional cycling i have okie .