Schleck: Three Grand tours not Possible?

[EmpressJo]

I think Baby Schleck is probably right - a double is much more likely - but I wonder if anyone's considered the possibility he could be playing mind games with Contador with maybe a veiled dig at Riis in there somewhere as well?

"I do not think Contador can do it," said Schleck. Pressed to explain the reasons behind his statement, the young Luxembourger smiled knowingly and replied, "I think it's just not possible."

Or maybe not.

 

[Nick C.]

I think I read Merckx said something to the effect that it would kill his team to try for all three in one season or it was said about him. Of course back then the Vuelta was in April or thereabouts.

 

[henryg]

I think AS is just stating the obvious. Unless you are doped to the gills even a Giro-Tour double is close to impossible these days.

A triple crown? maybe AC with perfect form peeking at all the right moments with some great luck, like chief competitors having some bad luck or an off year. If all the stars aligned it might be possible for AC at his best. But even then it's a one in a million shot.

 

[hfer07]

but I wonder if anyone's considered the possibility he could be playing mind games with Contador with maybe a veiled dig at Riis in there somewhere as well?

the only mind game he's playing with is himself, since he's still unable to win his first GT-whereas Alberto is a 5 times GT winner.

 

[The Hitch]

If Contador can get a really strong team behind him for the ttts (and i dont mean just cancellara doing a 20k itt and towing him) and gets a lot of luck i can see him doing it.

He would need to skip every race up untill may barring perhaps giro di trentino for warmup - nothing else.

He would need to for week 1 of giro be simply strong enough to hang in - ie finish with his team, even if it kills him. This will be his base training. Week 2 will be his higher training, he will need to limit losses. Week 3 will be his top form for that gt but not a total peak, and he needs to hope the opposition isnt too hard, maybe basso, menchov, schlecks dont go there and he needs to beat scarponi, nibali types. Maybe he wins it by a minute or 2.

He then needs to go into isolation for the next month for recovery and then light training. racing is absolutely out of the question. Idealy skip the team presentation to. He needs to be once again, in good enough form to simply hang on in the early stages, and it works to his advantage that there is a ttt. If Saxo have a good team for it, let the other 8 riders kill themselves with conti doing no work. Maybe he can get a 30 second lead on his rivals. Maybe the tour will prove as uneventful as the previous 2, and a 30 second lead becomes a big gap. Once again he doesnt need to peak fully. Be good enough to get same time as schleck in tts and suck wheels in mountains and since mountains arent as hard ( i think) minimise losses. It would help if Schleck is distracted/ not in form of this year.

Then back to isolation for next month and absolutely no racing. Repeat schedule from 1 and 2 for vuelta and perhaps, manage to peak for the 3rd week.

But it needs luck and dedication.

Oh and since he happens to peak for week 3 of the vuelta, why not hold that peak for the WC.

oh wait their in denmark

Oh well, do it in 2012 then.

 

[skidmark]

But it's a bit strange for a guy who can only hold top form for four weeks in a year to tell this as a general truth.

I don't know what that has to do with anything. I'm not a professional racer at all, let alone someone who can almost win the Tour, and I feel pretty confident telling that as a general truth, that it's impossible.

That said, if Contador did go for it and had a real chance, it would probably be exciting to see if he could do it, especially if it came down to the Vuelta. Although it'd probably also be extremely boring, with him trying to save energy as much as possible and not attacking anyone ever.

I'm not sure why some people are making this out to be a psychological tactic of Andy's, or something that's outrageous for him to say, as Contador's brother/agent described it as 'impossible' like 2 weeks ago and Contador described it as 'only a dream' and much different from reality just last week.

 

[theyoungest]

I don't know what that has to do with anything. I'm not a professional racer at all, let alone someone who can almost win the Tour, and I feel pretty confident telling that as a general truth, that it's impossible.

That said, if Contador did go for it and had a real chance, it would probably be exciting to see if he could do it, especially if it came down to the Vuelta. Although it'd probably also be extremely boring, with him trying to save energy as much as possible and not attacking anyone ever.

I'm not sure why some people are making this out to be a psychological tactic of Andy's, or something that's outrageous for him to say, as Contador's brother/agent described it as 'impossible' like 2 weeks ago and Contador described it as 'only a dream' and much different from reality just last week.

Like I said in the sentence you edited out, I don't think this is some kind of attack on Contador. But if there's one rider least likely to pull this off, it's Andy Schleck, simply because there's such an enormous difference between his top form and his base level, and he reaches this top form very rarely. So it's no surprise he should say this.

I'm not saying it'll be a walk in the park for Contador, but at least he's able to perform at a decent level throughout the year.

 

[BroDeal]

The Giro will be more difficult in years to come. Zomegnan has found the angle to set his race apart from the Tour. The future Giros will feature courses like the one we saw this year. They will be hard, spectacular, and glamorous. An in form Contador will have the opportunity to crush the competition, unlike these lame TdF courses, but the Giro routes will be a lot more fatiguing than it has in the past. It will make doing the triple a lot more difficult.

If Contador enters the Giro, a smart move by a rival team targeting the Tour would be to send a team to Italy with the dedicated purpose of making the Giro as hard as possible. Tire Contador out in Italy and win the Tour.

 

[ak-zaaf]

If Contador enters the Giro, a smart move by a rival team targeting the Tour would be to send a team to Italy with the dedicated purpose of making the Giro as hard as possible. Tire Contador out in Italy and win the Tour.

That's the thing.

Even if he makes the Giro/Tour double happen the same will apply in the Vuelta.
It would make a great GT season that way.

 

[the student]

Having a dream in your life is far more important, every grand tour winner has been dreaming about being one of the greatest riders ever since he was a little boy buying his first racing bike.

Contador is surely the best rider out in the field these days... But he already is a legedary GT rider... so to keep the dream and his focus alive he needs to step up and think of the really big things...

of course everyone will say he's mad and it cant be done... but that was our opinion in flying about 120 years ago...

 

[Ryaguas]

Well was my bad to say that Andy was "attacking" Contador's dreams... The point that I wanted to make was that Andy has nothing to do with Contador's dreams... That is not his problem what Contador wants to try or make in the future, he shouldn't be saying anything about this... OFC Andy is playing "mind games"

I think AS is just stating the obvious. Unless you are doped to the gills even a Giro-Tour double is close to impossible these days

mmmm I don't think so... but I think that is the most difficult double, just because Zomegnan is CRAZY! and He will be making Il Giro harder every year, I'm not saying that this is bad au contraire thx to this cuz Zomegnan is saving the reputation of the GTs...

 

[saganftw]

The point that I wanted to make was that Andy has nothing to do with Contador's dreams... That is not his problem what Contador wants to try or make in the future, he shouldn't be saying anything about this... OFC Andy is playing "mind games"

what mind games? he was asked by journalist,what was he supposed to say?he told what he thinks,its not like hes the first one to think its impossible

interesting enough the description in article of him smiling and explaining...as if he knew some a55hole would try to twist his words into some mind games BS

 

[Ryaguas]

what mind games? he was asked by journalist,what was he supposed to say?he told what he thinks,its not like hes the first one to think its impossible

interesting enough the description in article of him smiling and explaining...as if he knew some a55hole would try to twist his words into some mind games BS

At this level nothing is innocent... I could be laughing but at the same time attacking you, making you look like an stupid, etc...

But well you're the expert

 

[saganftw]

At this level nothing is innocent... I could be laughing but at the same time attacking you, making you look like an stupid, etc...

But well you're the expert

you dont have to be expert,just use common sense

do you believe AC is so fragile that when he reads newspapers hes like "whaaat? (cries) AS thinks its impossible? thats it,im not even gonna try"

and do you believe AS is so naive he believes a 5 time GT champion will be affected by his opinion? cmon dude thats comedy gold ...only mind games that are going around are those the journalists wish for

the only effect on contador (given his competetive inner fire) i can think of is that he will try to prove everybody wrong and try to win 3 GT

 

[JohnNordin]

I obviously don't have a clue what AC, AS or anyone else is thinking about this, but here is something else to consider.

When we talk about having a career that puts you among the all time bests, well, look at number of TdF wins. You've got Armstrong at 7, then at 5 are Anquetil, Hinault, Indurain and Merckx. Pretty good company. No one has 4 career wins, and at 3 are Bobet, LeMond, Thys and Contador. Also good company, but not like the list with 5.

I'm wondering if AC would want to notch a 4th victory, putting him another step up the all time lists and putting him into very high standing, before he'd want to try for the grand slam?

And then there are all the grand tours put together. Only five have won all three in their careers: Anquetil, Gimondi, Hinault, Merckx and Contador.

Several have won two GTs in a year, but not Contador. Could that be something he really is aiming at - to add his name to that list?

Here's another angle. The most GTs won in a career is Merckx's 11 followed by Hinault (10), Anquetil (8), Armstrong, Coppi, Indurain at (7) No one is at 6.

So, another 2 GT's (in one year) and he really puts his name on some career lists.

And no one has done the triple in one year. But maybe aims at one more TdF win, then goes for all three.

Who knows?

 

[Ryaguas]

you dont have to be expert,just use common sense

do you believe AC is so fragile that when he reads newspapers hes like "whaaat? (cries) AS thinks its impossible? thats it,im not even gonna try"

and do you believe AS is so naive he believes a 5 time GT champion will be affected by his opinion? cmon dude thats comedy gold ...only mind games that are going around are those the journalists wish for

the only effect on contador (given his competetive inner fire) i can think of is that he will try to prove everybody wrong and try to win 3 GT

Exactly... Andy says that... Contador rush his desicion and try to prove that everybody is wrong but He fail in the attemp ruining his year and Andy capitalizes that winning Le Tour or others competitions where Alberto could beat his crap out... I'm not saying that is going to happen, that Contador isn't mature enough to don't be affected by this comments, etc... but Andy is trying to play something... but OFC that is not going to happen... and his comments will pass..

I learned this long time ago... in Cycling nothing is for free and nothing is innocent... but anyway... that is not OP's idea... sorry for getting in the Off-topic zone...

 

[The Hitch]

The Giro will be more difficult in years to come. Zomegnan has found the angle to set his race apart from the Tour. The future Giros will feature courses like the one we saw this year. They will be hard, spectacular, and glamorous. An in form Contador will have the opportunity to crush the competition, unlike these lame TdF courses, but the Giro routes will be a lot more fatiguing than it has in the past. It will make doing the triple a lot more difficult.

If Contador enters the Giro, a smart move by a rival team targeting the Tour would be to send a team to Italy with the dedicated purpose of making the Giro as hard as possible. Tire Contador out in Italy and win the Tour.

Ive thought about this but i dont know. Giro 10 had its 2 of its 3 big climbs, Zoncolan and Mortirolo. In addition it had one of its super climbs - the kronplatz. Usually you dont include these mountains for about 2 or 3 years after they are used. As much as i would like the zonc to become a regular feature because of its steepness and huge crowds, its rare to have a mountain used in back to back gts. They cant just include these mountains every year. They will struggle to make future giros as hard as this one was.

 

[roundabout]

There are plenty of hard climbs in Italy. It's likely that they won't be super steep but the race will certainly not be easy without the Mortirolo and theZoncolan.

 

[jaylew]

Several have won two GTs in a year, but not Contador

Uh...2008 Giro and Vuelta?

 

[The Hitch]

There are plenty of hard climbs in Italy. It's likely that they won't be super steep but the race will certainly not be easy without the Mortirolo and theZoncolan.

easy - no.

But not as hard as this one.

 

[sagard]

I would be really impressed if Contador tried winning two Grand Tours in season again. I really don't think it will happen due to his commitment to leTour. In '08 he probably wouldn't have raced in either the Giro or the Vuelta had he (his team) been eligible for the Tour.

 

[theswordsman]

I got tired of listening to Schlecklet talk early in the Tour when he belittled pretty much everyone. I wouldn't trust his opinion for a movie review.

On the three grand tour thing: none of us, including Contador, know how good he might be. He's got a Giro, a Vuelta, and three TdF's at a younger age than Armstrong was when he won his first Tour and no one could have predicted what was coming.

I expect Alberto told his "dream" to Riis expecting it would stay in confidence, not be used for promotion. In the follow-up, Alberto said it would take time, a change of schedule, etc. to have any chance.

But the guy is 27, he has talent, he's overcome a lot, and it makes perfect sense for him to want to do more in the future than he has in the past. Win the Tour, been there, done that, got lots of yellow T-shirts. Two grand tours in one year? Ticked off on the Bucket List.

So what would be a good answer for the "where do you see yourself in five years?" If he thinks that in four or five years he could get strong enough to make the attempt. I think the progression will be pretty fun to watch. If he could pull off the Tour/whatever double in the next couple of years, I think this conversation might change to the point where a lot of people would like to see him try.

I've said in another thread that horse owners don't announce they're going for the Triple Crown - they try like Hell to win the Kentucky Derby. Tennis players don't say they're trying for the Grand Slam, they fight to win the Australian Open.

If Contador did want to go for this, the last thing he would do is announce it in advance. Heck, Nibali won't say how well he hopes to do at the Vuelta because he doesn't want to jinx it. If Alberto did announce ahead of time, he could get a win and two seconds and some people would say he failed.

The way to do it is to adjust his early schedule so he's fresh for the Giro, and not announce any races beyond. If he wins, he sees how the recovery goes and decides which other grand tour to do. If he rides the Tour, and wins it, he's either got two thirds of it figured out for the next year, or he takes his shot.

Personally I'd rather having him look at his future in those terms than ride the exact same races every year and not test himself.

 

[peloton]

I obviously don't have a clue what AC, AS or anyone else is thinking about this, but here is something else to consider.

When we talk about having a career that puts you among the all time bests, well, look at number of TdF wins. You've got Armstrong at 7, then at 5 are Anquetil, Hinault, Indurain and Merckx. Pretty good company. No one has 4 career wins, and at 3 are Bobet, LeMond, Thys and Contador. Also good company, but not like the list with 5.

I'm wondering if AC would want to notch a 4th victory, putting him another step up the all time lists and putting him into very high standing, before he'd want to try for the grand slam?

And then there are all the grand tours put together. Only five have won all three in their careers: Anquetil, Gimondi, Hinault, Merckx and Contador.

Several have won two GTs in a year, but not Contador. Could that be something he really is aiming at - to add his name to that list?

Here's another angle. The most GTs won in a career is Merckx's 11 followed by Hinault (10), Anquetil (8), Armstrong, Coppi, Indurain at (7) No one is at 6.

So, another 2 GT's (in one year) and he really puts his name on some career lists.

And no one has done the triple in one year. But maybe aims at one more TdF win, then goes for all three.

Who knows?

Did you just start following cycling? You might want to edit your post, just sayin'

 

[JohnNordin]

Did you just start following cycling? You might want to edit your post, just sayin'

Oh dear,
I misread the Tour/Giro double list as being 'all possible doubles.' That's all.

For those of you who have followed cycling, has anyone won a stage in each of the three GT's in a year? No fair looking it up.

 

[hiero2]

Merckx

I'll just assume that Merckx will be the rider to compare palmares to.

Contador has done the Giro-Vuelta same-year victory salute once. Exactly the same as Merckx. But Merckx only entered the Vuelta ONCE in his whole career. He did not ride the Tour that year (1973*).

BUT, Merckx won the Giro-Tour double THREE times: 1970, 1972, 1974. In the nice little chart I used as a reference, it also becomes instantly apparent that Merckx could have won 6, and perhaps 7 Tours, had he been entered in them and focused his career on Le Tour. Eight would have been very doubtful, as he did try to win in '75, but was unsuccessful.

*Source data: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Career_accomplishments_of_Eddy_Merckx