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Sergio Paulinho vs. Contador

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Jul 22, 2009
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I Watch Cycling In July said:
I recall LA being quoted sometime during the tour saying "even Paulinho doesn't like him anymore" ......if divide and conquer went on, it might have been a while ago.

Where did you read that? Surely you jest!
 
I think we can sit on the outside and analize the crap out of the transfer season, but we are missing the point. For most, if not all of these guys it is not about personal loyalties as much as it is about getting a contract that helps them provide for their families and get every advantage professionally that they can.
Where Hincapie or Paulinho or Leipheimer or Popo or Zubeldia or Horner or anybody else wind up next year will have much less to do with whether they thing Lance or Cav are a$$holes or whether Contador dropped Kloden on purpose or is he an immature punk, it will have to do only with one question. How good is my contract and will we win.
Almost all of these guys except for the top alpha dog leaders are friends, and they are all doing the same work just for different bosses.
So we can sit here and say "ahha Paulinho signed with Radio Shack that means Lance is better that Contador". But it doesn't mean sh!t,except to us.
 
Jesus Hernandez and Benjamin Noval seemed to be Contador's two main domestiques and friends this year. Shack is already setting up and ready to sign, and Lance won't care about anything other than the Tour, giving Sergio the rest of the calendar. So this isn't a huge shock.

Jonathan said:
The biggest problem with Radioshack will be that Armstrong is not going to win the Tour. This could make things rather unpleasant for his teammates.
This is a very true statement. Only the three week posters (who have mostly left) really held that thought, no? I mean, there's every indication that the race organizers will have to include a shorter (or no) TTT next year, and more mountain top finishes considering the negative reaction this year's race got. Change that, then add the fact that Contador waited to attack many times this year, the Schlecks, Nibali, Basso, others all much younger than him, and there's no way Lance wins next year.
 
Jul 22, 2009
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Hugh Januss said:
I think we can sit on the outside and analize the crap out of the transfer season, but we are missing the point. For most, if not all of these guys it is not about personal loyalties as much as it is about getting a contract that helps them provide for their families and get every advantage professionally that they can.
Where Hincapie or Paulinho or Leipheimer or Popo or Zubeldia or Horner or anybody else wind up next year will have much less to do with whether they thing Lance or Cav are a$$holes or whether Contador dropped Kloden on purpose or is he an immature punk, it will have to do only with one question. How good is my contract and will we win.
Almost all of these guys except for the top alpha dog leaders are friends, and they are all doing the same work just for different bosses.
So we can sit here and say "ahha Paulinho signed with Radio Shack that means Lance is better that Contador". But it doesn't mean sh!t,except to us.

Which question of the two?

Honestly though, when comparing similar contracts, you have to mull over other factors that might also include 'do you enjoy being there'. Everybody selects a job with an eye on this and will actively seek to move to another job if the situation is better.
 
scribe said:
Which question of the two?

Honestly though, when comparing similar contracts, you have to mull over other factors that might also include 'do you enjoy being there'. Everybody selects a job with an eye on this and will actively seek to move to another job if the situation is better.

It is one question. How good is my contract and will we win.
Whether or not they enjoy being somewhere it has most to do with the above. You can't compare it to your job where you have to deal with the same folks on a daily basis, 5 days a week 52 weeks a year. They don't see their "teammates" except at camps and races. Whatever team they are on they will still have the same friends and the same training partners and they will go to the races and do the same jobs.
I bet if Bruyneel could somehow get Armstrong and Contador back on the same team next year every single one of the other guys would be back, no matter how uncomfortable it was at times, if they thought they could get 1st, 3rd, 6th and best team again.
 
Jul 22, 2009
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Hugh Januss said:
It is one question. How good is my contract and will we win.
Whether or not they enjoy being somewhere it has most to do with the above. You can't compare it to your job where you have to deal with the same folks on a daily basis, 5 days a week 52 weeks a year. They don't see their "teammates" except at camps and races. Whatever team they are on they will still have the same friends and the same training partners and they will go to the races and do the same jobs.
I bet if Bruyneel could somehow get Armstrong and Contador back on the same team next year every single one of the other guys would be back, no matter how uncomfortable it was at times, if they thought they could get 1st, 3rd, 6th and best team again.

Those are both good questions. Thanks.

Also, Contador said that the rift caused a lot of duress on the staff. I assume he had an accurate perspective on the situation.
 
May 26, 2009
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Jonathan said:
It would be typical for Armstrong and Bruyneel to depict Contador from this point on as the big favorite for the Tour who, consequently, has to 'take all responsibility'.

'From this point on', as in 'sour grapes'?

I don't recall Bruyneel depicting Contador as anything other than the Astana guy most likely to win the Tour at any time.

From LA's return onwards, he was ambivalent/hopeful for LA but always hedged his bets.

Did I miss a credible interview where JB seriously compared the two and rated LA as a bigger favourite to win the Tour than AC?
 
usedtobefast said:
keep your friends close, and
keep your enemy's closer. la hired him away from ac. my theory, and he is a very good rider, why not get him if you can?:cool:
i guess what i mean is, if you can glean any "insider" information from sergio about ac, then you might get a small advantage. we all seem to agree ac is the man for any race he wants to win. lance is a master tactician, so he can use info(if there is any) to get into ac's head. and like hugh said, this is all just
speculation anyway. and so it goes.;)
 
Jul 13, 2009
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yourwelcome said:
'From this point on', as in 'sour grapes'?

I don't recall Bruyneel depicting Contador as anything other than the Astana guy most likely to win the Tour at any time.

From LA's return onwards, he was ambivalent/hopeful for LA but always hedged his bets.

Did I miss a credible interview where JB seriously compared the two and rated LA as a bigger favourite to win the Tour than AC?
Armstrong and Bruyneel are now on a different team. They will, therefore, probably try to put pressure on Contador. Since he has the biggest chance of winning, the best way of doing that is by making the role of favorite seem like a disadvantage.

For example, when Telekom had many good riders in its team, the critique from US Postal was that the team had 'too many leaders'. That was just a hollow retorical ploy, since a few years later, Bruyneel has no problems with putting four podium candidates in one team. But generally it is his strategy to try to turn any opponent's advantage into a disadvantage by putting a spin on it.

So I would expect him to stress that the role of favorite comes with (undefined) responsibilities and pressure.
 
Aug 4, 2009
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Agreed, Paulinho is typical domestique, who has no chance of podium ever, so it's more important for him to get a decent contract and get in a team that will do well. However for riders like Tony Martin, Wiggins, they also weigh the factor of whether they will get team built around them to win the Tour (and that's why Martin turned down possible deal with the Shack, because he knew he wouldn't be the leader, at least not in 2010).

for a second just think if contador is not 1st, then astana only has 3rd place and 6th, which is no batter than saxo 2nd and 5th. so having contador this year makes a huge difference in pay (at least in the Tour), though they could probably still manage a team win, but the payoff is different (i believe you only get 20k for team win vs. 400k plus for overall yellow jersey)...
 

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