Should Championship race lengths be the same for categories?

[AQETUYIOI]

Edited by King Boonen:

This topic was split out of a race thread where a discussion about whether the length of the womens TT race should be the same as the mens TT race in the European Championships went off at a tangent.

Why the women's route has to be shorter I don't know.

As a rule the elite women are slower than the junior men.

 

[King Boonen]

Should Championship race lengths be the same across categories?

Why the women's route has to be shorter I don't know.

As a rule the elite women are slower than the junior men.

And?

 

[AQETUYIOI]

Re: 2018 UEC Road Elite Euro Championships, Glasgow(5-12 Aug

Why the women's route has to be shorter I don't know.

As a rule the elite women are slower than the junior men.

And?

Junior men should also ride the same distance/route as the elite men?

 

[King Boonen]

Re: 2018 UEC Road Elite Euro Championships, Glasgow(5-12 Aug

Why the women's route has to be shorter I don't know.

As a rule the elite women are slower than the junior men.

And?

Junior men should also ride the same distance/route as the elite men?

There is no Junior mens TT race here.

 

[AQETUYIOI]

Re: 2018 UEC Road Elite Euro Championships, Glasgow(5-12 Aug

In World Champs there are, and the junior men consistently go faster, using junior gearing, than the elite women.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: 2018 UEC Road Elite Euro Championships, Glasgow(5-12 Aug

In World Champs there are, and the junior men consistently go faster, using junior gearing, than the elite women.

How is this relevant to whether the elite women should race the same TT course as the elite men at the Euros? If you want to discuss juniors at the worlds feel free to make a thread and have at it.

 

[AQETUYIOI]

Re: 2018 UEC Road Elite Euro Championships, Glasgow(5-12 Aug

You want the elite women, who have inferior capabilities compared to both the elite men and the junior men, to race the same route/distance as the elite men do. So I'm asking if the junior men, who perform at a higher level than the elite women, should also race the same route/distance as the elite men?

 

[King Boonen]

Re: 2018 UEC Road Elite Euro Championships, Glasgow(5-12 Aug

You want the elite women, who have inferior capabilities compared to both the elite men and the junior men, to race the same route/distance as the elite men do. So I'm asking if the junior men, who perform at a higher level than the elite women, should also race the same route/distance as the elite men?

And I've told you this is irrelevant as to whether the women race the same distance or not. If you want to ask those questions, start a thread and have that discussion.

 

[AQETUYIOI]

Re: 2018 UEC Road Elite Euro Championships, Glasgow(5-12 Aug

Why should the elite women, race the same route/distance as the elite men?

 

[del1962]

why not would be my answer

they race all the same distances in athletics now

 

[King Boonen]

Re: 2018 UEC Road Elite Euro Championships, Glasgow(5-12 Aug

Why should the elite women, race the same route/distance as the elite men?

As del says, why not. There really doesn't need to be any more said than that really.

There are other reasons for my original remark in the other thread. Logistically it's much easier to operate over a single course, men and women are racing on the same day and the roads are closed midnight until 7pm so time is not an issue here. Using the same course means that fans could more easily see both men and women. The reduction in road closures would make it easier for locals to go about their daily life. The addition on the cut-through in the womens race has made getting into Glasgow much more of a hassle for many people who live in the area.

 

[AQETUYIOI]

Re:

The TTs are lactate threshold events, limited to how long one can sustain the intensity, so the faster group race longer distance, the slower groups shorter.

The men's road race is a > 6 hour event, should the women's be an 8 hour event, or should the men's race be shortened in the name of equality.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

The TTs are lactate threshold events, limited to how long one can sustain the intensity, so the faster group race longer distance, the slower groups shorter.

The men's road race is a > 6 hour event, should the women's be an 8 hour event, or should the men's race be shortened in the name of equality.

Different riders perform better in different TTs. There's no reason they can't vary the length and parcours for both men and women year to year to open the competition up more. It might even make it more interesting.

The RR example conflates to different measures of length.

 

[AQETUYIOI]

Re: Re:

They do vary the length and parcours for both men and women.

Don't know what this says?

The RR example conflates to different measures of length.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

They do vary the length and parcours for both men and women.

Don't know what this says?

The RR example conflates to different measures of length.

They vary it slightly, about 10km difference between the longest and the shortest. They could easily increase that to 20km variation in length and run both on the same course.

It means the discussion has been about distance and you have framed your example/question in terms of time so it's not comparable.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Where do these weird intense misogynists come from?

 

[PeterB]

From the UCI Cycling Regulations:

Chapter IV INDIVIDUAL TIME TRIALS
Distances
2.4.001 The distances shall be the following:
Category - Maximum distance / World championships and olympic games / Other events
Men Elite / 40-50 km / 80 km
Under 23 / 30-40 km / 40 km
Junior / 20-30 km / 30 km
Women Elite / 20-30 km / 40 km
Junior / 10-15 km / 15 km

 

[AQETUYIOI]

Re: Re:

20k variation between men and women routes, i.e. men do two laps, women 1 lap?
Men's WC time trials
Women's WC time trials

'km/h' is distance and time?

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

20k variation between men and women routes, i.e. men do two laps, women 1 lap?
Men's WC time trials
Women's WC time trials

'km/h' is distance and time?

No, 20km year to year variation.

km/h is speed... I'm out.

 

[AQETUYIOI]

Re:

Where do these weird intense misogynists come from?

What's weird? What's intense? What's misogynist?

 

[jmdirt]

The answer is yes, the elite men and woman races should be the same distance.

 

[AQETUYIOI]

Re: Re:

No, 20km year to year variation.

km/h is speed... I'm out.

Men's EC TTs 45k and 46k.
Women's EC TTs 25.4k and 31.5k.
Men's WC TTs have been 31k to 57.9k:
Men's WC time trials
Women's WC TTs have been 19.2k to 30k:
Women's WC time trials

So men and women should race the same route/distance each year, 20k one year, 40k next, 20k again?

Speed is the distance covered within a time interval. So in a lactate threshold event like the TT, the distance covered in 35/55 minutes matters. And the time it takes to cover 135k/260k in RRs matters.

 

[AQETUYIOI]

Re:

The answer is yes, the elite men and woman races should be the same distance.

Women's race longer, men's race shorter or a combination?

Why not a race distance that reflects the physical capabilities of the participants?

 

[jmdirt]

Re: Re:

The answer is yes, the elite men and woman races should be the same distance.

Women's race longer, men's race shorter or a combination?

Why not a race distance that reflects the physical capabilities of the participants?

40ish* K. men and woman are capable of TTing 40K.

*If the host city has a really cool 25K course then the race could be 50K (2 laps), or if they have a great 35K loop that's good too.

 

[AQETUYIOI]

Re: Re:

But the physical capabilities ain't the same, i.e. men cover a longer distance in an amount of time than women, so why not have race distances/routes that reflect the different physical capabilities?