Should helmet laws be relaxed?

[Archibald]

The idea of not wearing a helmet and not having this as law is ridiculous.

These are life saving devices and the stats in the article make it clear these should always be worn.

the way some people drive, helmets should be compulsory when driving cars too - if race car drivers wear these life saving devices why shouldn't the rest of the car driving world? It may just be a commute to the city, but that bus t-boning you could really dent your melon and ruin your day...
Maybe neckbraces for all motorists to help reduce whiplash injuries and all their claims?

 

[woodie]

If anyone is stupid enough not to wear a helmet then that is their problem, hope their insurance is up to date. Maybe after some off you fall on you head and not yourself out you'll appreciate the helmet more. Maybe it shouldn't be compulsory, everyone should have the choice, that's fine, but I think anyone who chooses to not wear a helmet knowing the consequences is an idiot

 

[WillemS]

……………………..__
……………..,-~*’`¯lllllll`*~,
………..,-~*`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll¯`*-,
……,-~*llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll*-,
…,-*llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.\
.;*`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll,-~*~-,llllllllllllllllllll\
..\lllllllllllllllllllllllllll/………\;;;;llllllllllll,-`~-,
...\lllllllllllllllllllll,-*………..`~-~-,…(.(¯`*,`,.
….\llllllllllll,-~*…………………)_-\..*`*;..)
…..\,-*`¯,*`)…………,-~*`~.………….../
…...|/.../…/~,…...-~*,-~*`;……………./.\
…../.../…/…/..,-,..*~,.`*~*…………….*...\
….|.../…/…/.*`...\...……………………)….)¯`~,.
….|./…/…./…….)……,.)`*~-,……….../….|..)…`~-,.
…/./.../…,*`-,…..`-,…*`….,---…...\…./…../..|……...¯```*~-,,,,
...(……….)`*~-,….`*`.,-~*.,-*……|…/.…/…/…………\…….
….*-,…….`*-,...`~,..``.,,,-*……….|.,*...,*…|…………..\……
…….*,………`-,…)-,…………..,-*`...,-*….(`-,…………\….
............f`-,………`-,/…*-,___,,-~*….,-*……|…`-,……….\…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_ridicule

But of course, bringing sciences into a debate should never be done as we can clearly solve any issue using common sense. Everyone who doubts that just has... no sense at all.

 

[Le breton]

.......
For the record, I am solidly for the use of helmets at all times, but in general against helmet legislation.

I agree with you on the principle on both counts.
What do I do in real life?

If I am not riding alone I always wear a helmet.

If riding by myself on flat or rolling hills or mountainous terrain I always have it, although it ends up on the handlebar on long climbs. (however, if I realize minutes after leaving home that I forgot it, i don't go back to get it).

If going just for a single mountain climb with a few km warming up before, I most often do not wear my helmet. I definitely go slower on my way back downhill.

Now, while riding leisurely to go get the paper or whatever, I never wear my helmet.

What I am waiting for are real world statistics on the benefits - if there any - of wearing a helmet among the competitive cyclists population, both in competition and in training : helmets have been compulsory for a few years in Spain and a couple of years in France.

The first reports from Spain seem to imply that there is no benefit to wearing a helmet.

 

[Le breton]

the way some people drive, helmets should be compulsory when driving cars too

helmets should be compulsory when driving cars too

The savings for society at large would far outweigh the hypothetical savings from wearing a helmet while cycling, independtly of the way people drive.

 

[stainlessguy1]

the way some people drive, helmets should be compulsory when driving cars too - if race car drivers wear these life saving devices why shouldn't the rest of the car driving world? It may just be a commute to the city, but that bus t-boning you could really dent your melon and ruin your day...
Maybe neckbraces for all motorists to help reduce whiplash injuries and all their claims?

you forgot to add a 3 point racing seatbelt just like NASCAR , now there is a seatbelt that actually works and it works at 200km into the wall .

 

[stainlessguy1]

Agreed, also, smokers should be shot to reduce medical expenses.

Of course car drivers should also wear a helmet as the medical cost savings would be considerably larger than that just incurred from cyclists ( same goes for skiers, rollerbladers, fast joggers, people going down stairways).

It goes without saying that skydiving, paragliding, rafting, canyioning, swimming without lifesaver - among other activities - should be prohibited.

Overweight people should be jailed until they return to a normal weight.

ya and smokers should be denied medical attention because now that the state has one against the tobacco giants after 50 years of struggle , its a known fact that it kills . You all knew what you were getting into , read the package.

 

[stainlessguy1]

politically overcorrect

Well this thread sounds like a bunch of women complaining about the 50km speed in their subdivision. They go to council and get it reduced to 40km .
So their little John Henry is more safe.

I do believe you are all running for parliment on some sort of platform. You all have good points . However in the era of Freedom which is so coveted and bannered by all civilized nations on the planet, it is counter to a persons civil rights and libertys .

I do think very soon you will all get another dose of legislation regarding yachting and Life Jackets.
The effort to legislate this is already in process and the selling tactic already gone to the large media brainwashing machine .
So for those of you who wrote in from downunder this might really hit home if you love to sail as much as I do. I dont know the laws there but i do know so far you dont need a life jacket on your yacht. ( this will be a nice one to try to enforce).

So the non sailing public will get even with the rich guys on yachts and try to demand the super life saving agenda of life jackets , as the non cycling public tries to make things as tough as possible for the real cyclists by enforcing a law on the minority and then call it democracy .

Point is , it isnt democracy. Its a farce and will stop more people from riding, or sailing.

The real issue is , if your not able to feel safe enough to balance on a bike , stay off of the bike , If you feel the need to wear a helmet to give you the illusion of safety then wear it . But most of all , all you ( what ever you claim to be type of cyclist that you are) LEARN TO RIDE A STRAIGHT LINE . OBEY THE RULES OF THE ROAD. ESPECIALLY IN THE CITY .
YOU, will find things will be just fine without the meddling of more government. Point.

 

[woodie]

Well this thread sounds like a bunch of women complaining about the 50km speed in their subdivision. They go to council and get it reduced to 40km .
So their little John Henry is more safe.

I do believe you are all running for parliment on some sort of platform. You all have good points . However in the era of Freedom which is so coveted and bannered by all civilized nations on the planet, it is counter to a persons civil rights and libertys .

I do think very soon you will all get another dose of legislation regarding yachting and Life Jackets.
The effort to legislate this is already in process and the selling tactic already gone to the large media brainwashing machine .
So for those of you who wrote in from downunder this might really hit home if you love to sail as much as I do. I dont know the laws there but i do know so far you dont need a life jacket on your yacht. ( this will be a nice one to try to enforce).

So the non sailing public will get even with the rich guys on yachts and try to demand the super life saving agenda of life jackets , as the non cycling public tries to make things as tough as possible for the real cyclists by enforcing a law on the minority and then call it democracy .

Point is , it isnt democracy. Its a farce and will stop more people from riding, or sailing.

The real issue is , if your not able to feel safe enough to balance on a bike , stay off of the bike , If you feel the need to wear a helmet to give you the illusion of safety then wear it . But most of all , all you ( what ever you claim to be type of cyclist that you are) LEARN TO RIDE A STRAIGHT LINE . OBEY THE RULES OF THE ROAD. ESPECIALLY IN THE CITY .
YOU, will find things will be just fine without the meddling of more government. Point.

Have you ever fallen on your your head at 50km/h?

I understand what your saying about choice, and I agree there should be a choice, but if you choose not to wear one then your stupid and enough of my tax money is already wasted on idiots.

(When i say you/your im talking in general terms)

 

[stainlessguy1]

Have you ever fallen on your your head at 50km/h?

I understand what your saying about choice, and I agree there should be a choice, but if you choose not to wear one then your stupid and enough of my tax money is already wasted on idiots.

(When i say you/your im talking in general terms)

Well Sir. The answer to that is i learned how to fall a long long time ago so no i didnt hit my head at 50 or 60 or any other speed.
But i would like to share something with you, since you mentioned tax dollars.
It came up that the coast guard and its rescue attempts were put in question by the public and how much it costs to rescue the solo and duo sailors world regattas . So the said persons do not not want to pay for the rescues anymore.
The issue was why participate in such a risky sport and why spend tax payers dollars to save the sailors. ( since you talk of tax dollars , primarily yours). I do have an answer to this, stay tuned.

 

[stainlessguy1]

for Woodie

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/12674956
and there you have it . example 1

So i suppose if you get even more head protection the new speeds can be even faster than before .
After all the olympic motto is *stronger , higher , Faster * or something to that affect.

Always wear lots of head gear because you feel safer and will definitely ride outside your comfort zone. Because you are safe. Right?

 

[BroDeal]

Have you ever fallen on your your head at 50km/h?

50 km/hr with a helmet is the same as 45 km/hr without one.

Lesson: Avoid falling on your head at any speed but especially at speeds beyond which a helmet doesn't make much of a difference.

 

[woodie]

@Brodeal, what about 60km/h? Where is your proof of this, i'd really like to read this evidence.

There isn't much you can do when people crash right in front of you in a big bunch so I understand the risk i'm taking when I race and I know the helmets reduce the damage.

All this crap about them doing nothing is bull****, and really they aren't that much of a hassle to wear, and you can get a pretty good one relatively cheaply. If you guys don't wanna wear a helmet that's your choice, I just think your stupid for not wearing one.

Why exactly are you against wearing a helmet?

 

[BroDeal]

@Brodeal, what about 60km/h? Where is your proof of this, i'd really like to read this evidence.

Kinetic energy increases by the square of the velocity. Calculate it yourself using helmet test standards. Helmets are made for low speed impacts of around 20 km/hr, the same speed your head will be travelling at when it falls from a height of two meters, possibly while trackstanding. End result is that at speeds of 50 km/hr the amount of energy absorbed by helmets does do much to decrease the effective velocity.

Why exactly are you against wearing a helmet?

I am not against wearing a helmet. I am against stupid people who think helmets are far more effective than they are and increase their risks while thinking their helmet will save them. In other words I am against risk compensation that is based on faulty beliefs in helmet efficacy, thus possibly making use more dangerous than not wearing one.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I can't speak for countries with national health care, but here in the US where we pay more to get less, and lots of people (the poor) aren't covered, I can comment.

I believe that if you are 18, you should be able to make your own choice. However, if you are pulled over by a police officer for breaking the law on your bike and aren't wearing a helmet, and cannot prove that you have private insurance (not on the spot, but by the time the fee is due), your fine should be tripled, or you should have to perform several hours of community service if you cannot afford it. A couple of weekends cleaning adult diapers in a nursing home will make you understand how important good insurance is.

I also believe there are types of roadways that should not be ridden without a helmet, and some roads shouldn't be allowed to be ridden on by bicycle at all. It's already that way on freeways, but there are plenty of other roads where this just makes sense.

 

[stainlessguy1]

Kinetic energy increases by the square of the velocity. Calculate it yourself using helmet test standards. Helmets are made for low speed impacts of around 20 km/hr, the same speed your head will be travelling at when it falls from a height of two meters, possibly while trackstanding. End result is that at speeds of 50 km/hr the amount of energy absorbed by helmets does do much to decrease the effective velocity.



I am not against wearing a helmet. I am against stupid people who think helmets are far more effective than they are and increase their risks while thinking their helmet will save them. In other words I am against risk compensation that is based on faulty beliefs in helmet efficacy, thus possibly making use more dangerous than not wearing one.

I agree with BroDeal .

This is absolutely correct and if Woodie is looking for proof , there have been numerous articles and tests done in both cycling and motorcycling . especially the road sport.
The findings were very simple, In both sports both riders increased speed when helmets are worn, took chances they normally wouldnt take.
The biggest example is riding a cafe racer without a helmet and then recording the average speed . It is guaranteed that the wind in your hair and the vibration in your cheeks get you to slow down and ride comfortably at around 50 mile and hour or there abouts . The minute the helmet is put on the average speed goes up to breaking the law with sustained velocity usually to 70 and 80 miles an hour . Also the amount of time it takes to accelerate up to a car and then sit on their bumper is quadrupled. Why .
All of the sudden we are impatient. Yet without a helmet we just kindof mope along without any major concern .
Ditto this effect down hill on a bicycle , your body naturally becomes more cautious as you are aware of the speed sooner and your body has a built in safety that works against the deathwish phenomena.
YOU can make your own proof of this. Prove it to yourself and try it.
Now here is another good example of human nature, ride along without a team kit on and you can ride relaxed and pretty girls even talk to you and ask you how its going as you meet them on the roadway. The minute you put a team kit on you are automatically training in racing style and dont have any time to meet pretty girls anymore.
Such is human nature.
I would like to leave everyone with one last statistic, the head injuries that are cramming the hospitals with permanent problems to both head and neck to the rate that people are near vegtables by the time they are 40 are Hockey , Football (american) all forms of arial skiing , all forms of snowboarding , skateboarding and the list goes on . Cycling are the least affected even with the bad year we just had last year. I cant comment on rugby or boxing. The jury is still out untill the first problems with extreme fighting come in . They all end up in the hospital and our collective premiums cover it.

 

[Polyarmour]

Wear your helmet and just shut up about this issue will you. I don't want to have to pay for your brain operations and 20 years of rehab. Last time I smacked my head on the concrete I was doing 2km/h. There is NO safe time to take off the helmet.

 

[woodie]

Kinetic energy increases by the square of the velocity. Calculate it yourself using helmet test standards. Helmets are made for low speed impacts of around 20 km/hr, the same speed your head will be travelling at when it falls from a height of two meters, possibly while trackstanding. End result is that at speeds of 50 km/hr the amount of energy absorbed by helmets does do much to decrease the effective velocity.



I am not against wearing a helmet. I am against stupid people who think helmets are far more effective than they are and increase their risks while thinking their helmet will save them. In other words I am against risk compensation that is based on faulty beliefs in helmet efficacy, thus possibly making use more dangerous than not wearing one.

People can die falling on their head from any speed. If someone gets hit by a car, 9 times out of ten they die from there head heading the concrete as opposed to the injuries from the impact of the car.

I crashed on my head at 65km/h and survived, what your telling me is that if I wasn't wearing a helmet I would still be alive with no significant brain damage at all because helmets are minimally effective? If a person can die hitting their head on cement falling at 10-20km/h, even less, how the hell would i survive it at any speed being catapulted off a bike?

I know helmets aren't super effective but I know it's saved my life on more than two occasions. I daresay if I had crashed without a helmet in any of my crashes I would've been in hospital for longer than 4 or 5 hours.

You can tell me all about kinetic energy as much as you want but i'd prefer to have some protection as opposed to no protection, but hey, if you don't want to wear a helmet, go for it, it's your life. As far as that last statement goes, cyclists take risks, it's part of racing, helmet or not, helmets save lives full stop.

 

[Major Taylor]

I used to deal with injury/disability for a university. I never saw a student with a head injury from a bike crash.

I saw plenty with head injuries from other activities esp. driving.

 

[stainlessguy1]

Wear your helmet and just shut up about this issue will you. I don't want to have to pay for your brain operations and 20 years of rehab. Last time I smacked my head on the concrete I was doing 2km/h. There is NO safe time to take off the helmet.

What was this a cartoon crash. The kind you find on stunt ride videos in Americas favourite videos?

There is that* I dont want to pay for someone elses rehab* That seems to be the collective theme with all you people. So i guess the people walking and slipping on ice hitting their head and putting their hip out , better not come to suit you for liable regarding that they fell infront of your house because you forgot to shovel the snow and break up the ice. I guess your defence is they werent wearing a helmet , your Honor.
Get those older people to put their helmets on while walking to the library . \
Ps. your insurance isnt going to go down in any way , neither will your taxes if everyone is or is not seeking medical attention , for a helmet issue or otherwise.

 

[woodie]

What was this a cartoon crash. The kind you find on stunt ride videos in Americas favourite videos?

There is that* I dont want to pay for someone elses rehab* That seems to be the collective theme with all you people. So i guess the people walking and slipping on ice hitting their head and putting their hip out , better not come to suit you for liable regarding that they fell infront of your house because you forgot to shovel the snow and break up the ice. I guess your defence is they werent wearing a helmet , your Honor.
Get those older people to put their helmets on while walking to the library . \
Ps. your insurance isnt going to go down in any way , neither will your taxes if everyone is or is not seeking medical attention , for a helmet issue or otherwise.

I don't want to pay for someone who seriously injured themselves participating in a high risk sport that didn't take the necessary precautions, which is wearing a helmet. It might not do much but it does enough. Just like I don't like my taxes going to people who could work but are just lazy. I don't want taxes to go down, just to the right place.

Taxes aren't my concern anyway, it is one small part of my view, I just believe that wearing a helmet is better than wearing nothing at all based on personal experience and don't really understand why people wouldn't wear them, each to their own i suppose

 

[stainlessguy1]

People can die falling on their head from any speed. If someone gets hit by a car, 9 times out of ten they die from there head heading the concrete as opposed to the injuries from the impact of the car.

I crashed on my head at 65km/h and survived, what your telling me is that if I wasn't wearing a helmet I would still be alive with no significant brain damage at all because helmets are minimally effective? If a person can die hitting their head on cement falling at 10-20km/h, even less, how the hell would i survive it at any speed being catapulted off a bike?

I know helmets aren't super effective but I know it's saved my life on more than two occasions. I daresay if I had crashed without a helmet in any of my crashes I would've been in hospital for longer than 4 or 5 hours.

You can tell me all about kinetic energy as much as you want but i'd prefer to have some protection as opposed to no protection, but hey, if you don't want to wear a helmet, go for it, it's your life. As far as that last statement goes, cyclists take risks, it's part of racing, helmet or not, helmets save lives full stop.

helmets dont do anything except sit on your head. They in themselves dont save lives , Its all up to the type of crash you have. You cannot prove that you would of died in a 65 km crash or any other , but in all likely hood if you werent wearing a helmet you would of been on your brakes way earlier and not gone 65km down a hill in the first place and thus not even crashed.
Most of the time , rides and whether or not you crash is a very subtle difference of only a few km per hour ,, and how you approach turns etc.
NO one here says you cant wear a helmet . Wear it , if it suits you. In the mean time , upgrade your bike handling skills. Relax your mind and train of thought from the prescribed i am going to crash if i am not in full uniform.
The last part i leave you with is the part that amateurs have a lot of trouble with .
NO , NOT every commute is a race. ( but that comes with age. )

 

[stainlessguy1]

I don't want to pay for someone who seriously injured themselves participating in a high risk sport that didn't take the necessary precautions, which is wearing a helmet. It might not do much but it does enough. Just like I don't like my taxes going to people who could work but are just lazy. I don't want taxes to go down, just to the right place.

Taxes aren't my concern anyway, it is one small part of my view, I just believe that wearing a helmet is better than wearing nothing at all based on personal experience and don't really understand why people wouldn't wear them, each to their own i suppose

Cycling per say isnt a high risk sport.
Commuting isnt a sport, its a mode of travel , and we are talking about general use of helmets , not just for racing.
Unfortunately everyone equates it automatically with racing.
When i head out for a ride with my budds now the groups are small , very small , the frames are steel , the ride style is from the 70's and no we dont wear the lids. Some of the guys race from time to time and wear the lids when racing. yes. other than that no . ( yes they have plastic bikes when they race)
We also dont do stupid rides , like on ice, anymore , or try to provoke the Gods by trying to dodge rush hour traffic , or going the wrong way on a one way street or go thru stop and red lights because we think we are a chasing group of some sort in a make believe TDF .
We obey the rules of the road and hence have no confrontations with motorists .
The next one is important. :

WE relax in the city with city traffic and do not try to be hero's . When we ride , we ride harder in the country on country roads where there is space . To and from the training ride consists of city traffic as most people have the same issue. Therefore , to and from the training ride , can be a warm up and cool down and its relaxed. NO racing simulations .

WE dont crash , period . WE have been doing this in this manner when there was little traffic and with no helmets and still do it today, since before most of you were born and since at time for older newbies that called us names for riding a bike in the first place.
So in retrospec to all this , my only beef is that the older generations werent able to pass on proper etiquette of cycling like it was passed on to us. Hence we now have total mayhem on the roads as everyone thinks their experts.
There was lots of tradition in Europe, and behold people can ride and stay upright without helmets in all walks of life. But unfortunately we lacked in depth outside of Europe and it has become more of a business than a poor mans sport.
So once a sport or a way of travel takes on business rules, it no longer follows any traditions except the margin of profit that drives the entire entity.
Wear a lid if you must, but, the best defense is still experience and knowledge, so do yourself a favour and join a cycling club, one with racing experience is best , since they can hopefully pass on what is left of traditions. Then stop all this bloody crashing.

 

[MarkvW]

I like my helmet, even though I cracked its predecessor.

 

[Polyarmour]

What was this a cartoon crash. The kind you find on stunt ride videos in Americas favourite videos?
There is that* I dont want to pay for someone elses rehab* That seems to be the collective theme with all you people. So i guess the people walking and slipping on ice hitting their head and putting their hip out , better not come to suit you for liable regarding that they fell infront of your house because you forgot to shovel the snow and break up the ice. I guess your defence is they werent wearing a helmet , your Honor.
Get those older people to put their helmets on while walking to the library . \
Ps. your insurance isnt going to go down in any way , neither will your taxes if everyone is or is not seeking medical attention , for a helmet issue or otherwise.

If you expect the government to pay for your health bills with tax payer's money then the taxpayer has a right to ask you to minimise your health risks. It's like seat belts.... or don't you wear those either?

As for my 2km/h crash. It was a combination of cracked pavement, soaking wet mouldy leaf litter, downhill and cornering while braking. Maybe a pro rider like you who "never crashes...period" would have done a wheelstand through this stuff, but I went down and smacked my head on the concrete so hard I have no doubt I would have been serously injured.