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Should Lance lose his 7 Tours

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What should happen to Lances results

  • He didnt dope non issue....

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He has not tested +ive yet. If there is some new hard evidence, like results from sample retests that are +ive then depending on when the samples were taken he should be stipped of some if not all Tour titles, and other titles as well. I'd tend to drop the hammer and strip him of all in that case, because he says he's never doped and a +ive now proves he was lying all along and prolly doped all along. No mercy.
 
Jan 27, 2010
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silverrocket said:
I think whatever happens there must be consistency. Since Contador and Landis lost their titles and had them handed over to Schleck and Pereiro, if Armstrong is proven guilty of doping to a TdF win then the UCI must also hand over his wins to the second place person, unless that person too is proven to have doped in that TdF. They must either hand Armstrong's titles over to the runners-up, or they give Landis and Contador their titles back.

This means that if Ullrich did indeed only start doping after 2005 (yes, IF) he must retroactively be awarded Riis' 1996 title, as well as Armstrong's 2000,2001 & 2003 titles. Since there is also Basso's admission that he "intended" to dope in 2005, and some evidence Pantani doped in 1998, Ullrich might also get those titles too.

Of course this won't happen, but as a longtime fan of the long suffering Jan Ullrich, it would be sensationally delicious irony to see him retroactively become the first 7-time Tour de France champion!

I like your idea the best.

It will be shown that Lance doped, and heavily, since 1999. So to be consistent he should lose them all. On each of those years I would put his name at the bottom of the page with a large notation stating how he recklessly doped, adamantly and repeatedly lied, and got caught. He needs to be made an example of.

As for the other 2nd placers...to be consistent if they have not been found guilty with facts, pos tests or multiple sworn testimony then leave it for now. Otherwise, all of Valverdes, Vino's etc...GT and classic wins should be removed. The burden now is to prove that Ullrich, Basso, Kloeden etc... doped on the years in question before removing their new TdF wins.

As for Ullrich, there are comments from former teammates and managers that reinforce the notion that he was doping but just barely (HCT <41%) without autologous doping prior to 2004 or 2005. Before he is painted with a wide brush the facts should be there no?
 
May 27, 2012
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gilbertador said:
Yes:
The new winners are:
1999 - Zulle
2000 - Ullrich
2001 - Ullrich
2002 - Beloki
2003 - Ullrich

2004 - Kloeden
2005 - Basso

No:
They all doped and so the best thing to do is leave Lance in with an asterisk

I dont really know what is the best thing to do, obviously it should be recognised that Lance doped however it would turn the results into a total mess and the names that would replace Lance are hardly clean. Even then I think Lance by actually being a distributor is worse and therefore removal of his wins is justified.

If the statute of limitations is an issue I would opt to remove the 2004 and 2005 results.

Don't know why it's so hard to comprehend that you just strip the titles and have no winner. It's like people will find any reason to try to keep the myth and fraud intact.
 
May 27, 2012
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mtb Dad said:
Strip them. But leave his name on the lists with "disqualified and banned for life" next to it. Forever. Good warning for others.

Put effigies of him speared with sharp 30' poles at the start and finish of every stage for the next 20 years as warning.
 
mwbyrd said:
...I think the bigger issue is the UCI and the likes of USADA who allowed the doping situation to get out of hand. Remember, we all loved watching it and the UCI enjoyed watching their coffers grow every year.

Not sure why you're accusing USADA of letting doping situation in cycling get out of hand along w/ the UCI? Did you mean only to mention UCI there?
 
Jun 17, 2009
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another dave

I agree just would be too complex to strip them as that era were nearly all suspect, sad to say let the history books show this in writing
 
Dec 27, 2010
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So let's see everyone's best guess on the clean winner of each Tour :D

99 gave up :D
00 Robin, 19th?
01 Simon, 6th?
02 Moncoutie, 13th?
03 Botcharov, 24th?
04 Casar, 16th?
05 Cadel, 8th?

This is actually a lot harder than I thought, never pays to look backwards.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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this poll is nice, but it's about what posters HOPE wILL HAPPEN.
I'm personally more interested in what posters THINK WILL ACTUALLY HAPPEN.

Anybody interested in making a poll on that? I just tried, but I'm apparently too foolish to make a poll (couldn't figure it out).

So the poll title would be: "What WILL happen next? (as opposed to "what do we HOPE will happen next?)". The voting options would be:

1. LA does a "Tu-Pac" (i.e. pretends he gets shot and then emigrates to a tropical coastal area in brazil never to be seen again)
2. USADA goes forth with the investigation, LA looses 2 titles
3. USADA goes forth with the investigation, LA looses 7 titles
4. USADA does not go forth with the investigation

Of course, other questions are: what'll happen to Bruyneel, the Doctors, Pat and Hein, etc. But can't have it all in one poll, I assume.
So I guess the first question is: will USADA proceed?
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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ChewbaccaD said:
Put effigies of him speared with sharp 30' poles at the start and finish of every stage for the next 20 years as warning.

Ya, I said in another thread, ASO should buy a grave and put "here lies the TDF 1998 - 2007, RIP". If someone wants to mourn them they can visit there.

There should be a constant reminder - and if people want to say, are you saying those Tours didn't exist? The answer is, in reality, no, they didn't. It was just a crazy figment of your imagination, it could never happen.
 
A

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Moose McKnuckles said:
Wait, so you're telling me Lance did all that work changing his cadence for nothing? What about the Carmichael training plans and the Powerbars? :)

+1

Some treatment for a guy who busted his *** spending six hours a day on his bike.

On a side note, I wonder how cheap you'll be able to get his autographed mellow jonnies for?
 
Jul 18, 2010
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Even if there where a clean rider to award the TDF wins to retroactively -no one will consider him the winner. So if it's left blank, goes to another doper or whatever... the results are forever tainted. We will never know what the result would have been without EPO.
 

Polish

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Mar 11, 2009
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If and when title are taken away - the winner remains the winner.

Riis won in 1996, Jan in 1997, Marco in 1998.
Floyd won in 2006.
Alberto won in 2010.
And most awesomely, Lance won 1999-2005.

You can take titles away, but you can't deny reality.
Well, some CAN deny reality I suppose.
Deluuuusional.
 
Jul 18, 2010
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Polish said:
If and when title are taken away - the winner remains the winner.

Riis won in 1996, Jan in 1997, Marco in 1998.
Floyd won in 2006.
Alberto won in 2010.
And most awesomely, Lance won 1999-2005.

You can take titles away, but you can't deny reality.
Well, some CAN deny reality I suppose.
Deluuuusional.

If you cheat to pass a test and they catch you. You get failed. Thats reality. No, you did not really pass.

Was the doping operation and the ability to hide it an impressive feat? Yes. His athletic achievements? Not so much. A total fraud. He might as well have had a car tow him to the finish. A rigged result doesn't count as an achievement in any athletic competition.
 
May 3, 2010
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BlaBlaBla#$%^&*(_+)

Those riders mentioned as the ones deserving His Titles are, at least on paper, way more guilty than he (some of them) may, or may not: HAVEBEEN!; Now, to pay 110 grands to UCI, and 465 Grands to FERRARI? With that kind of cash, he could have bought his own handmade, custon fixed, Harley and FERRARI!! Then he wouldn't need to PEDAL*Bike for a living!
......Let's get stupid.....Why everyone don't win SEVEN!!!!!!
 

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