should riders be controlled at 3 am ?

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should rider be controlled at 3 am ?

  • Not decided

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Oct 6, 2010
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Ferminal said:
It's more to do with catching dopers at a time when they may actually test positive. 8-10 hours is plenty of time for someone to be microdosing EPO, every day of the Tour, without testing positive in any morning tests. If you give them a window of no tests, you're basically writing their doping regime for them.
Yea i agree on some levels but the fact is they are human, they already have very very public lives and i think they deserve some privacy even if they do get an opportunity to dope. Hopefully they will be honest (yea i wish).

They only way i would agree if they tested everyone in the race on the same night so no one gets an advantage over someone else, but that could not be organized i dont think so meh.
 
Oct 11, 2010
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u cant do it first of all how many of us like waking up at 3am? now say your in the 3rd week of a GT id tell them to shove it where the sun dont shine in both cases... what a stuped idea
 
Sep 25, 2009
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auscyclefan94 said:
python, why would you have a "not decided" option. If you are not decided then don't vote!
because i wanted to see the proportion of those polarized by the radical proposal vs. not having decided.. also 3am was an arbitrary time i chose as it’s the middle of the sleep. some may feel undecided b/c of the timing and find the idea more acceptable if it was say 5 in the morn.

@straydog
i understand where you’re coming from and i actually realise wada limitations in detecting short-lived hormones. consider me well informed. for example, (and this is a publicly available information) wada labs are currently authorized to detect hgh with no less than 3 (!) different methods with 3 different detection windows. when targeted with proper intelligence and diligence, one of the methods should at least flag the cheater without waking him up.

so my point was that the wada proposed shifting of the burden exclusively on riders should be shared by the folks in the science community and those who decide on random visits. improved tests are certainly possible with investment. the hgh test was an example. if some slip through, so be it. it's called an acceptable level of false negatives. Whilst i’m strongly anti-doping, i believe that ‘zero tolerance’ is a load of political bs. it creates some unrealistic expectation and draconian if not idiotic measures to abuse some in order to cover up others negligence or mismanagement.
 
Jul 27, 2009
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An initial no, but would be willing to consider it under strict rules.

One would be a maximum number of times in a GT ... say two times.

And, on those nights all riders in the top 10-15 get tested at exactly the same time. I wouldn't want only one rider being selected the night before the biggest mountain stage. I can't trust the testers to play fair.
 
May 6, 2009
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RdBiker said:
If you can't test a rider between 22.00-6.00 that leaves and 8-hour window for drugs to get out of your system. IMO if you don't test the riders between certain hours it's almost like saying "ok, feel free to dope at that time you won't get caught"

It's a question about preventing doping vs. the comfort of cyclists. I've never ridden a 3-week tour so can't comment on the affect of waking up at nigh but before a 1-day race it wouldn't kill my performance - or the night after the race. I understand your concern for unfair disadvantages to those riders tested during the night but I feel that just the possibility of nigh-time testing could deter riders from using some substances. You don't need to test them every night.
A rider would certainly think twice before using a substance if he had even (only) a 2% possibility of getting caught vs. having 0-possibility of getting caught.
Surely that's like saying the death penalty is a deterrent for things like murder etc.?
 
Jul 5, 2010
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I think the 3am thing is one of the most minor things in that report. I would look at some of the other suggestions first before even considering it an option. If some of the riders supposed to be targeted didn't tested now, they won't get tested if the 3am option becomes available either. Judging from the report there are far bigger issues then testing at night.
 
Oct 5, 2010
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+1

There are quite a few things that need to be addressed before something as drastic as waking riders in the middle of the night.

Like actually TESTING the 'highly suspicious' in the first place!!!

If the ABP or other various tests show variables which are a bit hinky - test them a lot more often. Actually build up some data to work from.

I worry less about microdosing that cant yet be detected and more about detecting the stuff they CAN detect but dont due to lack of current testing and stupid enforcement ....
 
Sep 7, 2009
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It is time to end this inquisition of cycling. Professional cycling needs to separate itself from WADA and continue with a bio pasport system that views certain types of therapy within limited parametres as legal and necessary to the health of riders. The only punitive threat to riders should be a lifetime ban for a first offence, period. No grey areas, no lengthy civil proceedings. Cycling is as dangerous as motorsports, as likely to result in serious injury as American football, a longer season than fishing, with levels of salary lower than most professional sports. And probably levels of doping no greater than many sports we consider clean or where we do tolerate it. Get off your Victorian perches, man-up and compete if you can, otherwise, enjoy the spectacle or take up chess.
 
No
The problem isn't testing them at 3am-even if all the anti-doping agencies & the race organizers find it productive & convenient to catch cheaters-the riders & team directors will protest/rebel against it to until it gets revoked. I remember back in the 98 TDF-in the middle of the Festina scandal-Police & Anti-doping agencies did a couple "midnight" searches/testings -even with all the valid justifications for it- the riders were so upset that they organized massive protests the next morning-the entire peloton were sabotaging the race by stopping in the middle of the stage just to annoy Le Blanc/ASO and got that critical that they were forced to stop the night testings.
that didn't work back then-I doubt it will today...
 
Apr 19, 2010
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Why on earth anybody would aspire to be a pro cyclist in this day and age is beyond me. No sportsperson should have to entertain this level of control, regardless of the reasoning behind it.
I can only assume that the 20 odd people who voted in favour of this BS wouldn't mind if the police regularly turned up at their house in the middle of the night to ensure that no laws are being broken?
 
May 26, 2010
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andy1234 said:
Why on earth anybody would aspire to be a pro cyclist in this day and age is beyond me. No sportsperson should have to entertain this level of control, regardless of the reasoning behind it.
I can only assume that the 20 odd people who voted in favour of this BS wouldn't mind if the police regularly turned up at their house in the middle of the night to ensure that no laws are being broken?
my neighbour had a shotgun. everytime there was a bank robbery the police called to his house and usually in the early hours of the morning to make sure he had it and it was not recently fired, result? he got rid of the shotgun;

Cycling get rid of the doping.
 
Oct 28, 2010
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This is beyond my comprehension. Tonight they want to deprive them of sleep, but tomorrow they'll expect them riding clean...
 
Though if there is an inquisition taking place, it is precisely because of the dire situation. At the same time it must be said that it is disappointing to know that other sports are not so vigorously monitored. Thus it's all about money.
 
May 26, 2009
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craig1985 said:
Surely that's like saying the death penalty is a deterrent for things like murder etc.?
Hmm...not really. I'd say more like having speed cameras deters from speeding. Or road-side police raids deter from driving while drunk.

It's a tough decision. If you want to catch dopers you should test them at night time but if you wake the riders to test them at night you give unfair advantage to those not tested. I don't think anyone has a simple solution.
 
Apr 19, 2010
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Benotti69 said:
my neighbour had a shotgun. everytime there was a bank robbery the police called to his house and usually in the early hours of the morning to make sure he had it and it was not recently fired, result? he got rid of the shotgun;

Cycling get rid of the doping.
Is that the "police academy 7" school of law enforcement?
Assuming that your neighbour was not a known bank robber, that use of police resources is as brilliant as dope testing riders at 3am.
 
May 26, 2010
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andy1234 said:
Is that the "police academy 7" school of law enforcement?
Assuming that your neighbour was not a known bank robber, that use of police resources is as brilliant as dope testing riders at 3am.
no it is called eliminating the possibilities and leaving no stone unturned.

testing the suspected riders at odd hours puts the the likely hood of catching them in the favour of the testers and if you need your sleep more than you need dope you will not be a suspect; i suspect;)
 
Apr 19, 2010
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Benotti69 said:
no it is called eliminating the possibilities and leaving no stone unturned.

testing the suspected riders at odd hours puts the the likely hood of catching them in the favour of the testers and if you need your sleep more than you need dope you will not be a suspect; i suspect;)
No, unless your neighbour had a criminal record, it's just harassment.
The majority of the pro field have no doping record so in a similar fashion, testing if this nature is also harassment.
 
May 26, 2010
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andy1234 said:
No, unless your neighbour had a criminal record, it's just harassment.
The majority of the pro field have no doping record so in a similar fashion, testing if this nature is also harassment.
not harrasment, if he lived with a certain radius of the crime it was standard police prodedure.

blame the testers for the doping. if they dont test they dont dope right, like other sports where there is no testing there is no doping:rolleyes:

no doping record because they hardly get tested and when they do they have plenty of notification and in case of surprise testing at home they have a 20 minute shower;)
 
Apr 19, 2010
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Benotti69 said:
not harrasment, if he lived with a certain radius of the crime it was standard police prodedure.

blame the testers for the doping. if they dont test they dont dope right, like other sports where there is no testing there is no doping:rolleyes:

no doping record because they hardly get tested and when they do they have plenty of notification and in case of surprise testing at home they have a 20 minute shower;)
Ok you have sold the whole idea to me....
I also think that all riders should be chaperoned by anti doping officials 24 hours a day. That will stop the doping.
In addition to that, the chaperones should have their own 24 hour chaperones, just in case they have been bribed.

Now we are really getting somewhere....
 
May 26, 2010
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andy1234 said:
Ok you have sold the whole idea to me....
I also think that all riders should be chaperoned by anti doping officials 24 hours a day. That will stop the doping.
In addition to that, the chaperones should have their own 24 hour chaperones, just in case they have been bribed.

Now we are really getting somewhere....
who watches the watchmen...
 
Jul 22, 2009
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This only works if you test every single rider in the race to keep it fair. Also, keep in mind that this will likely cost the rider at least an hour of sleep. And what about the poor ******* who got up to pee 20 minutes before they showed up. He might be up for hours trying to pee.

Stupid idea.
 
nslckevin said:
This only works if you test every single rider in the race to keep it fair. Also, keep in mind that this will likely cost the rider at least an hour of sleep. And what about the poor ******* who got up to pee 20 minutes before they showed up. He might be up for hours trying to pee.

Stupid idea.
Can the kind of stuff they'd be looking for only be detected in urine? Would blood tests help?
 

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