Should Schleck consider himself second if Contador is suspended?

Nov 1, 2010
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Just trying to get my head round this. If a rider serves a suspension for doping they have served their time - what the authorities decided - so you can't have any prejudice towards them, they deserve a second chance blah blah etc etc. I agree with that, however they doped - cheated - so any wins are not valid. So why would second place riders not consider themselves winners of a competition where the rider was disqualified due to doping??

"As for the result of this year's Tour de France, Schleck reiterated that he would not wish to take the title "in the office", as he dubbed it. "I do not want to win in the offices, I want to win coming to Paris with the yellow jersey on my shoulders," he said. "I do not know what will happen, but I'm second."

You can't pick and choose which bits of the regulations you accept as valid! I feel this attitude creates an understanding where the 'peloton' will still consider Contador the winner of the TDF, even if 'officialy' Shleck wins it. Well, officialy is what counts! The inverse of this situation would be the 'peloton' never accepting any win by Contador after he serves his suspension.

I don't agree - and I'm sure other people agree - with 2 year suspensions, but it's not fair to ignore every rider's wins until 4 years have passed. That's subjective and unfair!

Please elucidate me...
 
Nov 7, 2010
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beelzebozo said:
Just trying to get my head round this. If a rider serves a suspension for doping they have served their time - what the authorities decided - so you can't have any prejudice towards them, they deserve a second chance blah blah etc etc. I agree with that, however they doped - cheated - so any wins are not valid. So why would second place riders not consider themselves winners of a competition where the rider was disqualified due to doping??

"As for the result of this year's Tour de France, Schleck reiterated that he would not wish to take the title "in the office", as he dubbed it. "I do not want to win in the offices, I want to win coming to Paris with the yellow jersey on my shoulders," he said. "I do not know what will happen, but I'm second."

You can't pick and choose which bits of the regulations you accept as valid! I feel this attitude creates an understanding where the 'peloton' will still consider Contador the winner of the TDF, even if 'officialy' Shleck wins it. Well, officialy is what counts! The inverse of this situation would be the 'peloton' never accepting any win by Contador after he serves his suspension.

I don't agree - and I'm sure other people agree - with 2 year suspensions, but it's not fair to ignore every rider's wins until 4 years have passed. That's subjective and unfair!

Please elucidate me...
I would say it has something to do with psychology. Andy Schleck would rather be remembered as the Guy who won the Tour outright. He does not want to be remembered as the guy who came second and was prompted to first place, because the Guy who won was suspended for a doping violation. Their will also be those who would say they believe that Alberto Contador is innocent. If Andy Schleck is promoted to first place he will not feel the elation of pulling on the Yellow Jersey on the the Final day of the Tour, as the outright victor, while the Luxembourg National Anthem is played. If Contador is suspended and Andy Schleck is promoted to first place, even though he may be the outright winner in the History books, he will be remembered as the Guy who won the Tour because Alberto Contador was stripped of his title due to a doping violation. It does not feel the same as being the outright victor. In a way you feel that it devalues Your victory. Andy Schleck is only 25 Years of age. He has a lot of Good Years ahead of him. If Contador is suspended. Andy Schleck will undoubtedly be the Favourite For the Tour De France title in 2011.
 
May 11, 2009
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He'll feel differently if he goes on to win a few Tours, but for now I can totally understand that he doesn't really feel like a winner. If this is the one Tour that he wins it will always feel a bit hollow without having ridden into Paris in yellow and feted as the winner. If it's the first win of 3 or 4 then I'm sure it will look better in the record books to him.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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Schleck has already indicated that he's happy to have been robbed, so my answer to the title of the OP is "no".
 
Apr 28, 2010
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BotanyBay said:
Schleck has already indicated that he's happy to have been robbed, so my answer to the title of the OP is "no".
robbed? Do you really believe that Schlecklet was clean during the tour?
You really have more faith in the riders than I have :rolleyes:
 
Oct 8, 2010
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beelzebozo said:
Just trying to get my head round this. If a rider serves a suspension for doping they have served their time - what the authorities decided - so you can't have any prejudice towards them, they deserve a second chance blah blah etc etc. I agree with that, however they doped - cheated - so any wins are not valid. So why would second place riders not consider themselves winners of a competition where the rider was disqualified due to doping??

"As for the result of this year's Tour de France, Schleck reiterated that he would not wish to take the title "in the office", as he dubbed it. "I do not want to win in the offices, I want to win coming to Paris with the yellow jersey on my shoulders," he said. "I do not know what will happen, but I'm second."
Two things come to mind. One, Andy is a doper and, as such, doesn't feel any better than Contador but can't disclose that publicly, so he makes it sound like he's taking the high road.

Second, winning a pro race of the magnitude of the Tour has a lot to do with the celebration and ensuing media storm...the traditional clinking of the champagne glass with teammates on the ride into Paris...wearing the yellow jersey...the podium photos with the chicks....the freakin cute lion stuffies...riding along the Champs in yellow...the media whirlwind that follows a Tour winner..the talk shows, magazines...NONE OF WHICH THE GUY IN SECOND GETS.....those aren't exactly little things when you add them up.

When you win because of a DQ you lose all that and all you end up with is a 'paper win' albeit he will certainly be entitled to the prize money and UCI points that come along with it.

Third, it is very unusual and against the natural instincts of athletes - EVEN THOSE THAT DOPE - to physically see themselves getting second place and then somehow be declared the winner years later by way of a 57-page CAS opinion that doesn't even have photos. Almost no other sport would think of DQ'ing a performance years after the fact because of doping except for Olympic sports. You don't see that in baseball, football, soccer, basketball, hockey, etc.

So I can totally understand why Schleck said what he said. But I don't understand why you don't. It's like asking how come an Olympic athlete doesn't mind being awarded the gold medal in some secret ceremony 2 years after the Olympics were broadcast on TV and the DQ'ed gold medalist repaed the media and PR benefit of a gold medal performance.

Are you just being a wiseguy or are you really mystified by Schleck's statement?
 
Aug 17, 2009
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Barrus said:
robbed? Do you really believe that Schlecklet was clean during the tour?
You really have more faith in the riders than I have :rolleyes:
What a bitter cynical outlook on cycling some individuals have. Do they dread the next big race as to how the drug testing will fare?
 
Jul 16, 2010
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flicker said:
What a bitter cynical outlook on cycling some individuals have. Do they dread the next big race as to how the drug testing will fare?
It's called being pragmatic. These fools are still egregious in their doping.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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Barrus said:
robbed? Do you really believe that Schlecklet was clean during the tour?
You really have more faith in the riders than I have :rolleyes:
No, I do not, but I must (at first) give him the chance to react and behave as one who had been denied the win. He's not doing that. And (to me) it's an indication of something bad.

But to stick to the question posed... Should he consider himself the winner? No. He had that chance and instead chose to behave as one who'd just dodged a bullet.
 
Aug 17, 2009
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jimmypop said:
It's called being pragmatic. These fools are still egregious in their doping.
I was kidding. Still you have to give Andy the benefit of the doubt if he has clean pee/blood. Of course down the line the testers will devise another test.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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I have a solution:

At the end of each Tour, we'll create modular awards presentations in the editing room. We'll get green screens of each podium position, move the blocks a bit further apart, and also get shots of the entire top-15 of the peloton standing on each, doing the handshakes, etc. If the winner ever gets DQ'd at a later date, we can just swap them. We can then have a special TV show to right the wrongs.

Reminds me of the SNL comedy sketch where every soldier in the '91 Gulf war gets his own "welcome home" TV special, complete with personal greetings from George Bush.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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DAOTEC said:


Schleck & Co.
I don't really know what you're trying to hint at. I assume these are pictures of whn Johnny Schleck's car was searched by French customs in 2008 or 2009 (I forgot which one).
Anywho I think it is important to remember that they turned everything upside down and didn't find anything. Same thing happened to my luggage a couple of times in various airports
 
Mar 13, 2009
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flicker said:
Still you have to give Andy the benefit of the doubt if he has clean pee/blood.
I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt because you have a clean record. Still, everyone knows you're a bankrobber.
 
Nov 1, 2010
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I can completely understand how you'd want to celebrate the win in Paris wearing the yellow jersey. That's the ultimate goal!

My point is more ideological. The only way to rid cycling of doping is when everyone in cycling changes their attitudes and values. The most difficult way of doing that is by shunning doped riders, not hiring previous offenders etc. The easiest way is if all riders support the anti-doping measures and provide anonymous information on dopers for instance. I doubt everyone is doping so surely someone must see something. Most importantly, if they've come second to a proven doper they should portray the attitude of the winner.

Delete doping (and dopers) from your mind, undermine their achievements and that will hurt them more than any ban.
 
Apr 28, 2010
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beelzebozo said:
I can completely understand how you'd want to celebrate the win in Paris wearing the yellow jersey. That's the ultimate goal!

My point is more ideological. The only way to rid cycling of doping is when everyone in cycling changes their attitudes and values. The most difficult way of doing that is by shunning doped riders, not hiring previous offenders etc. The easiest way is if all riders support the anti-doping measures and provide anonymous information on dopers for instance. I doubt everyone is doping so surely someone must see something. Most importantly, if they've come second to a proven doper they should portray the attitude of the winner.

Delete doping (and dopers) from your mind, undermine their achievements and that will hurt them more than any ban.
Again you work from the assumption that Schleck is clean and does not dope, however odds are that he does and there is evidence that his brother dopes, so it seems unlikely that the little bro doesn't take something
 
Aug 17, 2009
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The way I see it is if contador is guilty and andy gets it, and the people here think Andy cheated I say nullify the results of the tour. I felt like that when Landis was relegated as I thought the people behind him were doping.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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flicker said:
The way I see it is if contador is guilty and andy gets it, and the people here think Andy cheated I say nullify the results of the tour. I felt like that when Landis was relegated as I thought the people behind him were doping.
I say bring Andy back to Paris and force him to enjoy the shallow spoils of his victory with a new awards presentation. The more media coverage the better.



He's shying away because of shame, not because he feels bad for Alberto.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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BotanyBay said:
I say bring Andy back to Paris and force him to enjoy the shallow spoils of his victory with a new awards presentation. The more media coverage the better.



He's shying away because of shame, not because he feels bad for Alberto.
an idiotic nonsensical contribution.
 
Jeez. The guy is just being honest with his comments about not being the winner. What is not to understand here. He is a young guy who wants to win it over the line. Maybe if AC gets turned over his tune will change, but really, until then what do you expect him to say.

And as for the implicit posts, if anyone can post anything directly linking the boy Schleck to doping please post. Riis or big Bro doesn't count or his Dad's car. Just a direct anything to Andy Schleck and doping. Anyone?
 
Jun 15, 2010
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Fieldsprint said:
Seriously, does anyone really think of Oscar Pereiro as the winner of '06 Tour?
I agree. Even Pereiro doesn't think of himself as the winner.If Contador gets banned there is no winner only a second. Imho
 

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