Should Schleck consider himself second if Contador is suspended?

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simo1733 said:
I agree. Even Pereiro doesn't think of himself as the winner.If Contador gets banned there is no winner only a second. Imho
Not true. After the initial "it kind of sucks to win this way", Pereiro (and most people) learned to think of it as a legitimate win. The same would happen if Contador is removed from the record now. It's awkward at first, but people get used to it and after some years the guy who "won it on the road" by cheating more than his rivals (or more sloppily) is just a footnote.
 
Jun 15, 2010
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hrotha said:
Not true. After the initial "it kind of sucks to win this way", Pereiro (and most people) learned to think of it as a legitimate win. The same would happen if Contador is removed from the record now. It's awkward at first, but people get used to it and after some years the guy who "won it on the road" by cheating more than his rivals (or more sloppily) is just a footnote.
Pereiro hasn't learned it was a legitimate win.He considers himself as just a top ten rider who got lucky one year
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Andy Schleck says he believes Alberto Contador

By VeloNews.comPublished: Nov 17th 2010 7:13 AM EST

Andy Schleck – the man who just might be proclaimed winner of the Tour de France – says he believes Alberto Contador and his claims that his positive test from clenbeturol came from eating contaminated meat.

Schleck, told the Spanish daily Marca that he’s swapped messages with Contador and said he hopes the Spanish rider is able to clear his name.

Schleck told Marca. “I believe in his innocence and hope it’s like that. I hope that Alberto is innocent and he can demonstrate it. I am not a doctor or a specialist … but I don’t believe he did anything wrong.” [http://velonews.competitor.com]

Well, Well, Well there you go ... Schleck(s) knows he is next in line ... ? thats why the move to Lux as being called home ha ...
 
simo1733 said:
Pereiro hasn't learned it was a legitimate win.He considers himself as just a top ten rider who got lucky one year
That's a different thing. He didn't think of himself as a legitimate GT contender, but that doesn't mean he believes he isn't the winner of that Tour.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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simo1733 said:
I agree. Even Pereiro doesn't think of himself as the winner.If Contador gets banned there is no winner only a second. Imho
Totally. Time to close...
 
Jul 16, 2010
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hrotha said:
Not true. After the initial "it kind of sucks to win this way", Pereiro (and most people) learned to think of it as a legitimate win. The same would happen if Contador is removed from the record now. It's awkward at first, but people get used to it and after some years the guy who "won it on the road" by cheating more than his rivals (or more sloppily) is just a footnote.
For me Sastre won in the Tour.

Pereiro's victory is a fluke. Pereiro knows that and he should be proud of how brilliant the other teams were.
 
Jul 2, 2009
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Disregarding Schleck specifically, if I was in his position, and was clean, I wouldn't feel like I'd won the Tour.

No riding down the Champs in Yellow, no champagne for the cameras, no standing on the top of the podium, no handing out jerseys to the mechanics etc, etc. Instead, he learns he's won the Tour several months later via a text message. Sure his name will be in the record books, but does Pereiro get any credit? It's utterly underwhelming.

To a sportsman, it's all about the battle, the winning on the day and the glory. That's their mentality. So from that point of view his quote*, I can fully understand and think it says nothing about whether he's doping or not.

* "I do not want to win in the offices, I want to win coming to Paris with the yellow jersey on my shoulders," he said. "I do not know what will happen, but I'm second."
 
Nov 1, 2010
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I'm very surprised at everyone's responses and of course completely disagree with most people. Just to put it into perspective:

We're all playing poker - for big bucks!! - joe bloggs wins and I come second. I accept it and cry into my pillow every night until I get a text message saying Joe Bloggs actually cheated and I'm the rightful winner. Not only will I consider myself the DESERVING winner (he did cheat after all, it is the ONLY thing you can do wrong in sport remember) but I'll actually hate and blame the guy who cheated for making me miss out on the celebrations, champagne etc on the day.

Also, winning on the day or later does not make you any less of a winner (think of appeals, delayed photo finishes etc. It might make the win feel a bit hollow, empty or anti-climatic but does not make you less of a winner!! At least it shouldn't in people's eyes.

This Oscar Pereiro issue is embarrassing, HE WON! Regardless of why he won, he won so he deserved to win, he used his brain, other people didn't. He definitely wasn't the best rider there - many other riders were consistently better - but he was the best rider over the course of the 3 weeks.
 
Aug 17, 2009
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beelzebozo said:
I'm very surprised at everyone's responses and of course completely disagree with most people. Just to put it into perspective:

We're all playing poker - for big bucks!! - joe bloggs wins and I come second. I accept it and cry into my pillow every night until I get a text message saying Joe Bloggs actually cheated and I'm the rightful winner. Not only will I consider myself the DESERVING winner (he did cheat after all, it is the ONLY thing you can do wrong in sport remember) but I'll actually hate and blame the guy who cheated for making me miss out on the celebrations, champagne etc on the day.

Also, winning on the day or later does not make you any less of a winner (think of appeals, delayed photo finishes etc. It might make the win feel a bit hollow, empty or anti-climatic but does not make you less of a winner!! At least it shouldn't in people's eyes.

This Oscar Pereiro issue is embarrassing, HE WON! Regardless of why he won, he won so he deserved to win, he used his brain, other people didn't. He definitely wasn't the best rider there - many other riders were consistently better - but he was the best rider over the course of the 3 weeks.
In a normal world you would be right. The Tour de France is not normal, as Cav. puts it Planet Tour, the third week everyone is so exhausted they are riding through their own dark tunnel. Contador and Schleck rode through the tunnel, planet tour together!

Andy seems to be a forthright kind of guy, he was there he suffered, he felt every pedal stroke and rode through the crowds and felt and smelt the crowds breaths on the tough climbs.

Me, I didn't get to watch it on TV even but I saw the photos, it was tight between Contador and Andy. I think in this case Andy was the better, stronger rider, Contador was lucky and then got very unlucky when he received his surprise.

I still consider Landis the 06 Tour winner as I believe every last one of the top 20 were charged.
 

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