Question Should Wout van Aert have waited at the top of Mont Ventoux???

[seldon71]

I can understand both sides of an argument, but Jumbo-Visma definitely lost a nice chance to make some serious GC damage by letting Wout to descend for a stage victory.

If he was stopped at the top (right after taking the mountain points), waited for Vingegaard, then pulled him back to Trek-Segafredos (only like 12-second gap) and then even got them to co-operate in working throughout the descend for a 4-man group (would have involved "selling" the stage), I believe they could have had almost a minute on Pogacar-Carapaz-Uran at the bottom. 40-45 secs , something like.

GC-wise that was absolutely THE THING to do and I believe it would've been something Kuss or Teunissen would have been forced to accept if they were in Van Aert's shoes.

But I do also understand that alienating one of the great stars of the team and whole cycling world who was about to win an unexpected glory of a "Queen stage" of TdF - something no one would've bet for...

Yeah, that would have been a huge risk to cause complications in upcoming times.


What do you think?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

lol

that's what i think

 

[Anderis]

If Vingegaard was 5 minutes closer to Pogacar in GC, then yes. Otherwise losing the stage win would've been kinda embarassing for the team (especially considering the fact they haven't had one in this race yet). If Van Aert was able to bring Vingegaard to the group with Elissonde and Mollema and one of them won the sprint for 1st against Trek while Vingegaard gained time in GC, it would look like a genius move, though.

 

[Blanco]

Just no!

 

[will-10]

This could be a fun poll

 

[BlueRoads]

If Vingegaard was 5 minutes closer to Pogacar in GC, then yes. Otherwise losing the stage win would've been kinda embarassing for the team (especially considering the fact they haven't had one in this race yet). If Van Aert was able to bring Vingegaard to the group with Elissonde and Mollema and still win the sprint for 1st while Vingegaard gained time in GC, it would look like a genius move, though.

It would have been cool if he had gapped Mollema and Elissonde on the descent, with Vingegaard on his wheel.
(Although I like Elissonde and he's not a bad descender...)

No, seriously, I questioned Jumbo's tactics for the Tour and the stage before it started (because how big are the chances that Wout actually wins one of the biggest climber's stages; possible, but not probable with his preparation I would have thought), but in that situation there was no other option for Wout than to go for the win.
It would have been ridiculous and would also have made van Aert rightfully angry if they had expected him to wait, since the stage win was certain at that point.

 

[Vino's Mum]

Short answer, without the f-bombs...

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0z_Qqnq8pI8

 

[Red Rick]

Depends on if comedy is more important than stage win or not

 

[titan31]

If Vingegaard was closer and no one in between, definitely should have waited. As it was, no chance.

 

[Monte Serra]

Depends on if comedy is more important than stage win or not

Wuyts would have gone ballistic! It would probably have been really bad news for Jumbo's campaign to expand into Belgium.

https://www.retaildetail.eu/en/news/food/jumbo-open-three-more-belgian-stores

 

[spalco]

I strongly feel like never, not even for Roglic, not even if the GC was on the line right then and there.

But the argument the other way is not as absurd as the poll result makes it look. It was also discussed in the stage thread yesterday.

 

[RedheadDane]

No. As Vingegaard pointed out on Danish television right after the stage; he doesn't have any experience with riding for GC in a GT. For all we know he could collapse completely in the third week, at which point a minute's gain would've been irrelevant.
By allowing Van Aert to take the stage, they not only ensured that no matter happens with Vingegaard's GC, Jumbo will not leave France empty-handed, but also put some of the media focus from Vingegaard to Van Aert.

 

[davidsonduke]

Apparently the poll responders do not see both sides of the argument (or even three sides, as the poll options indicate). Had WvA waited, and the two of them been caught, the laughter on this forum would have been overwhelming.

 

[topcat]

Wout was already well down the descent by the time Vino got the gap (his name frankly isn't worth the effort). That's probably why Wout climbed so hard. If V had a gap when Wout was still going up then Wout should have been called back. Wout is a fine descender, he could have extended the gap and still won the stage. Wout was exceptional yesterday.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

Wout was already well down the descent by the time Vino got the gap (his name frankly isn't worth the effort). That's probably why Wout climbed so hard. If V had a gap when Wout was still going up then Wout should have been called back. Wout is a fine descender, he could have extended the gap and still won the stage. Wout was exceptional yesterday.

He wasn't, when Vingegaard got the gap WVA still had 600m to the top.

Still, there's no DS in the world that calls WVA to stop, especially when the gap between Vingegaard and Pogacar is 5+ minutes. But a part of me would've found it hilarious if WVA would stops at the summit, gets off his bike, has a drink, bit of stretching and waits for Vingegaard while the two Trek guys he dropped half an hour ago pass by giving him bewildered looks.

 

[spalco]

He wasn't, when Vingegaard got the gap WVA still had 600m to the top.

Still, there's no DS in the world that calls WVA to stop, especially when the gap between Vingegaard and Pogacar is 5+ minutes. But a part of me would've found it hilarious if WVA would stops at the summit, gets off his bike, has a drink, bit of stretching and waits for Vingegaard while the two Trek guys he dropped half an hour ago pass by giving him bewildered looks.

And then Van Aert catches them before the line again anyway.

 

[topcat]

He wasn't, when Vingegaard got the gap WVA still had 600m to the top.

Still, there's no DS in the world that calls WVA to stop, especially when the gap between Vingegaard and Pogacar is 5+ minutes. But a part of me would've found it hilarious if WVA would stops at the summit, gets off his bike, has a drink, bit of stretching and waits for Vingegaard while the two Trek guys he dropped half an hour ago pass by giving him bewildered looks.

Ok, I was a bit confused by yesterday's events. He should have been made wait. Remember Scarponi parking on the side of the road for Nibali in the giro.

 

[jmdirt]

Wout was already well down the descent by the time Vino got the gap (his name frankly isn't worth the effort). That's probably why Wout climbed so hard. If V had a gap when Wout was still going up then Wout should have been called back. Wout is a fine descender, he could have extended the gap and still won the stage. Wout was exceptional yesterday.

Vino is a different dude so a different abbreviation? Ving? Vinge?

 

[topcat]

Vino is a different dude so a different abbreviation? Ving? Vinge?

The V option

 

[burning]

I think he should have waited for Cav to discuss the sprint from the previous stage.

 

[Red Rick]

One thing to note hhere is in any situation where the sacrifice is actually worth it is if you need the attack to basically win a really close GC, which is also a situation where you'd be very likely to just attack earlier.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

No he shouldn't.

If Vingegaard had closed the gap to the two Trek riders, it would be different - but he didn't - so it isn't.

Vingegaard should have attacked 500 metres earlier, then the tactical situation would have been different - but hindsight is always 20/20.

 

[Jacques (7 ch)]

GC-wise that was absolutely THE THING to do and I believe it would've been something Kuss or Teunissen would have been forced to accept if they were in Van Aert's shoes.

But Kuss and Teunissen would never have been over the top solo in a month of Sundays. Which makes this one of the ultimate hypotheticals …

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

If the 2 Trekies had been caught by Vingegaard.
If Vingegaard had already proven to be able to contend for 3 weeks.
If the gap between Vingegaard and Pogacar were much smaller.
If there were more time to gain (also on Uran and Carapaz) than 20 or 30 seconds.
If the team had already won a stage.
If this happened in the final stages of the TDF and there was a tangible advantage to be had.
...

No pro team is putting the best stage in the TDF on the line for a highly uncertain gain in GC.

Wuyts would have gone ballistic!

And with good reason.

 

[Monte Serra]

No pro team is putting the best stage in the TDF on the line for a highly uncertain gain in GC.

Not in the Tour, but it has happened in the Giro. You probably remember this beauty from Cervelo Test Team. Serge Pauwels got ordered to wait, to help the fringe GC chances of Carlos Sastre.

View: https://youtu.be/-tfZTJQMM5Q

I of course agree with you that any outrage would have been completely justified, if Van Aert would have been ordered to drop back. Just like it was fair that Schotte and De Cauwer got quite upset in 2009.