Since there is no explanation

[Barrus]

Since they have not giving any indication as to why this thread is under review, why it has been deleted or whatever. Here I go again, since it is important that this is out there:

Since the truth is out about that lying cheating son of a ***** Joe Papp and RR, it appears that I can come clean as to why I quit as a moderator/administrator over here. I have not been on here often and I have not posted on here for quite a while, but this new situation ensured that I felt compelled to post on here.

Please be clear, that I still don't know RR his true identity, nor do I care all that much about that

This issue happened quite a while back, so excuse me if I am not completely clear on the details anymore.

A while back it came to the attention of the CN staff that Joe Papp used a false method to get to know the identity of RR. He did so in order to get this information to LA and associates who had offered him money, or some manner of help in getting a lighter sentence for his doping related offences. My opinion in this case was that Joe Papp needed to be banned immediately and there needed to be some sort of insurance that such a situation would not occur again. I kept going after the real staff of the website in order to know where they would stand and what they would do. This answer did not come for several weeks, I found this so appalling and such a lack of respect for the owners/staff of the actual website towards the volunteer staff and the members of this forum that I issued an ultimatum, either the staff would give some sort of answer towards, at least, the staff or I was off the moderating team. Clearly they did not care.

Frankly I was not the only member of the moderation team that had issues with this decision, but I was the only person who was impulsive enough at the time to hang it up (others stayed around hoping to change stuff for the better, but later found out they were unable to do so)


RR himself did not want Joe Papp banned or that this knowledge would become widely available, due to the situation in which Papp found himself at that point in time. Still my opinion was that as soon as this knowledge was available to the staff that measures needed to be taken against Papp, even before speaking to RR.
After having consulted with RR the staff decided to do nothing and leave everything as is, without any guidance for what to do in the future. And frankly without any consultation of the people who ran the forum for them day in and day out. They did not seem to care about the privacy and the security of their members.

This is pretty much the cliff notes version of why I quit. I will keep up with this thread and answer any questions that might arise from this. But I think I will still be done with this forum entirely outside of this topic


ANother important aspect is the fact that there has been inactivity from the CN news staff, lack of communication that ensured a lot of friction between quite a few volunteer mods and staff





RR reply:

Looks like the fixed the log in issue, something about a confirmation email that I did not receive

I do not have much time or energy to dwell on this as I am sitting in a cab driving into Chicago.

Yes, Papp reached out to me a few years back via PM's on this forum. He said he desperately needed my help. After a bunch of PM's we switched to emails. He would not tell me why he needed my help, just that he needed it badly. He said he not confide in me unless he knew my name, which I would not tell him.

Then, likely during a jeglagged haze, I accidently responded to him on my mobile using my personal email that had my name. Never heard from him again.

A few days later I heard from a few people he had sold my info to Herman. I then heard it from more people.....People I trust

I told the mods here about it but asked that nothing be done as I did not want to interfere with Joe's sentencing, the other investigation, or draw attention to it. I said we could revisit it when all that stuff was over

When "all that stuff was over" I asked that it be addressed. I heard nothing. I pushed again. Heard nothing. I finally reach out to Dan and he said he was not going to do anything and it was not open for discussion.

It is disturbing that someone could use the forum to do something like this. I never would have engaged with Joe if he had not sent me a PM here. Simple as that.

 

[cineteq]

Extreme measures?

 

[Maxiton]

It's pretty obvious: they want their lawyer to look it over, in order to see what legal exposure they have, if any. If he decides the exposure is little, the thread will come back, with maybe a few posts redacted, or maybe even untouched. If he decides it's too risky, the thread won't come back.

Keep in mind he'll be looking at it through the eyes of British law, not US law.

 

[JRTinMA]

Since they have not giving any indication as to why this thread is under review, why it has been deleted or whatever. <snip>

Not sure of your timezone or what you saw in the thread but Joe came in threatening legal action if the thread was not closed since he claimed is was libelous and CN was complicit. I suspect that is the reason.

 

[Daniel Benson]

It's pretty obvious: they want their lawyer to look it over, in order to see what legal exposure they have, if any. If he decides the exposure is little, the thread will come back, with maybe a few posts redacted, or maybe even untouched. If he decides it's too risky, the thread won't come back.

Keep in mind he'll be looking at it through the eyes of British law, not US law.

Correct....

 

[hrotha]

This is pretty hilarious. Papp threatens legal action because... uh... yeah?

 

[Benotti69]

So a member issues threats and is not banned??????

 

[Maxiton]

Correct....

Doesn't it cost quite a lot of money to sue someone in the UK? Especially if you're in the US? You can't do it on hot air alone. So I wouldn't be too very worried about it.

 

[rickshaw]

Thread has been "disappeared"

I caught this thread for the short time it was on the "Professional Cycling" forum. I thought it was in the wrong place but... left, came back, gone. No mention of being deleted, or moved, or anything, just disappeared. They'll probably "disappear" this one too.

FWIW: I lost any residual respect for Joe P when he started his anti Muslim hate thread. How can one trust someone who is known to be untrustworthy?

 

[blutto]

Doesn't it cost quite a lot of money to sue someone in the UK? Especially if you're in the US? You can't do it on hot air alone. So I wouldn't be too very worried about it.

...assuming of course that you are only dealing with a poor Papp living in his mom's basement....

Cheers

blutto

 

[thirteen]

...assuming of course that you are only dealing with a poor Papp living in his mom's basement....

Cheers

blutto

very true!

 

[blutto]

....btw...may be a fine idea to formulate a plan B for what is a critically important discussion...as in find an alternative venue in which to carry on these discussions...

Cheers

blutto

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Barrus' posting in the two threads in the racing subforum was the same as in this thread. There is no need for multiple threads.

Susan

 

[Barrus]

Barrus' posting in the two threads in the racing subforum was the same as in this thread. There is no need for multiple threads.

Susan

Actually no, there were differences in these threads

 

[Maxiton]

...assuming of course that you are only dealing with a poor Papp living in his mom's basement....

Cheers

blutto

....btw...may be a fine idea to formulate a plan B for what is a critically important discussion...as in find an alternative venue in which to carry on these discussions...

Cheers

blutto

Two excellent points, blutto.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

....btw...may be a fine idea to formulate a plan B for what is a critically important discussion...as in find an alternative venue in which to carry on these discussions...

Cheers

blutto

twitter works.

 

[frenchfry]

So Joe P has engaged me by PM and now has my personal information. What conclusion should I draw from this?

Signed,
Confused

PS it appears we now know why RR left these forums

 

[Maxiton]

twitter works.

I don't see how you can call that discussion. An exchange of short, clipped statements does not a discussion make.

 

[blutto]

I don't see how you can call that discussion. An exchange of short, clipped statements does not a discussion make.

...yep...and going to a different venue gives us the advantage of perhaps putting some pressure on the MegaCorp to be a wee bit more responsive to its prime providers of content ( which btw we provide for free and from which they benefit handsomely )....as well as continuing to do what we like to do...that is, discuss cycling related stuff....and this, by the time its done, may become one mother of a discussion...we can't let it be hijacked, deleted, put in a dark closet etc etc...

Cheers

blutto

 

[Anonymous]

If what I've read about removing the thread(or putting it under review) because of legal threats of JP is true than i can say the next;(ignore if false)

I haven't read the thread after people started with the intensive insulting, but in my mind people can say whatever they like - I respect the freedom of speech.
If CN caves under petty legal threats how will We be able to speak of anything anyone dislikes?! This is just paralyzing the system misusing the law opportunities.
Isn't this then opening doors to Lance Armstrong doing the same to Clinic material?

If people can't put their opinions and personal views on this forum what good is it for?? Managing staff, grow a pair(or pairs, if more people)

 

[blutto]

Isn't this then opening doors to Lance Armstrong doing the same to Clinic material?

...that reference to LA may in fact be the end game....think chess here not checkers....

...may be a bit far-fetched ....but?....

Cheers

blutto

 

[D-Queued]

Thanks Barrus

So Joe P has engaged me by PM and now has my personal information. What conclusion should I draw from this?

Signed,
Confused

PS it appears we now know why RR left these forums

Me too...

Here is my original, bounced, reply when this thread was in the Clinic.

I am posting it here because this tactic is bigger than Joe Papp, and we have seen it all before:


Thanks Barrus.

Joe has my identity as well.

Perhaps, yes, Joe should be banned.

I have no particular quarrel with him, however. I do appreciate his insights.

Joe is not the only L-leaning poster that knows my identity. Any of them could reveal who I am.

At least one of these people has revealed my identity to those actively seeking it. I was surprised recently, for example, when one, now banned, poster made a reference to my career. I did report this to the mods.*

By participating in an anonymous open forum, one does have to take the risk that sooner or later others will find out who you are. And that you may be the source of that information.

I recently posted a letter I wrote to Nike. They are sophisticated, and could easily take my email and do a search on the Internet to determine with some level of certainty who I am. My guess was that within 24 hours that information was provided to Lance.

Better to take that risk, though, and participate in an extremely important open dialog. If you really care about the sport, then that risk is worth it.

Other posters, of course, openly expose their identity. They have even more courage than I do.

It is important, though, that the 'evidence' you and CN have should be provided to the DOJ (who are apparently still pursuing a case) and USADA.

It is also more important that you post this as you have, and we can have an open dialog.

Threads like 'Lance as a bully' discuss the very real aspects and implications of who Lance really is. Your post further underscores exactly the character that has no qualms about perverting this sport.

Thank you for your post. It helps.

*Just like my handle, I like to think that I have no particular 'expertise' when it comes to Lance, or previously with Floyd.

Floyd and his entourage also actively sought out my identity. While concerning on the one hand, the true source of my commentary is no particular special relationships.

Wherever and whenever possible, I simply use web research to back up any claim or observation. There are studies, for example, that refute the Arnie Baker nonsensical arguments diminishing the benefits of Testosterone. And there is a virtual parade of information publicly available on Lance.

What Floyd then (i.e. pre reform) and Lance now should be particularly concerned about is that their deceptions are so obvious to a face in the crowd like me.

I can only imagine their surprise when they find out who I am.

Dave.

 

[the big ring]

Damn. Now I want to know who you are

 

[D-Queued]

Damn. Now I want to know who you are

Just some anonymous forum contributor whose handle itself is in self-mockery, suggesting even he doesn't take himself seriously.

Dave.

 

[trompe le monde]

I find it a bit funny that Mr. Papp, self styled critic of the chemical nature of the peloton, a nature which he could not escape and helped to sustain through his drug pimping, would make a Faustian pact with Pharmstrong. Maybe the levels of irony escape such a moral prostitute as Mr. Papp, which would also help to explain his alleged threat of litigation.

Hilarious.

Shame that the net result of this episode has resulted in Race Radio leaving the forum. He was the most informed when it came to revealing the farce that was the Armstrong charade.