I realize this is an extremely subjective question but I am trying to get users opinions on what they believe to be the best smart trainer. Trying to filter through all the advertising hype has been tedious and trying to filter through reviews is as well. The reviews seem to be really lopsided as you have to wonder how many of the reviewers are either compensated for their reviews, or trying to gain advertising revenue. Any help would be appreciated.
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Smart Trainers
- Thread starter Rider302
- Start date
It depends on what you're after, how much you want to spend and how often you think you're going to use it.
If you're after the best possible Zwift experience and know you will be using your trainer a lot, then the Wahoo Kickr, Elite Direto or Tacx Neo are great trainers, with a lot of features and replace your rear wheel. These can handle huge wattage/gradients, simulate road surfaces and are more accurate than most high end powermeters.
If you're like me and only want something to use 1-2 times a week or in bad weather that has a fairly reliable erg mode, works with Zwift etc well enough and is reasonably accurate, then the Tacx Vortex/Bushido or BKool are a good starting point. IMHO this level is where you get best bang for your buck, I have a Tacx Vortex and think it's great. The only real limitations are a max gradient of 7%, and it's a wheel on trainer.
If gradient limits concern you remember that Zwift has a default gradient difficulty of 50% anyway, so unless you change that setting (almost nobody does) when Zwift says you're riding a 10% gradient your trainer is only simulating 5%, but it still calculates your climbing speed from power to weight, you just use a bigger gear.
If you're after the best possible Zwift experience and know you will be using your trainer a lot, then the Wahoo Kickr, Elite Direto or Tacx Neo are great trainers, with a lot of features and replace your rear wheel. These can handle huge wattage/gradients, simulate road surfaces and are more accurate than most high end powermeters.
If you're like me and only want something to use 1-2 times a week or in bad weather that has a fairly reliable erg mode, works with Zwift etc well enough and is reasonably accurate, then the Tacx Vortex/Bushido or BKool are a good starting point. IMHO this level is where you get best bang for your buck, I have a Tacx Vortex and think it's great. The only real limitations are a max gradient of 7%, and it's a wheel on trainer.
If gradient limits concern you remember that Zwift has a default gradient difficulty of 50% anyway, so unless you change that setting (almost nobody does) when Zwift says you're riding a 10% gradient your trainer is only simulating 5%, but it still calculates your climbing speed from power to weight, you just use a bigger gear.
Great info from 42x16. I don't have any experience riding a smart trainer (literally none, not even tried one in a shop) but there's a couple of thing you might find useful I can say.
The Tacx Neo has a strange issue. There is a bearing in the flywheel that requires a 24 spline ring nut tool to access. These tools are pretty hard to get hold of and they're expensive. I know of a couple of people who have had this bearing fail. I think Tacx sent both of them a new flywheel, so they will sort it, but it's a bit of a pain. This may also be the case with other direct drive turbos, I have no idea. Both of the one I know of failed within, I think, 10-12 months of heavy use. The load on these bearings is going to be high, so it's not hugely surprising they need replacing. Something to think about when deciding what to go with. People I know seem to either have Tacx or Wahoo smart trainers. That's possibly because those are ones stocked around us. I have Elite indoor training gear and it's been fantastic.
as 42x16 says, it depends on what you want to do. I've found speed/cadence sensors and a dumb turbo with Sufferfest are more than enough for training. Watts may not be accurate but they are reproducible which is all you really need for training. I also use rollers which have a measured power curve so speed/cadence works for that. This won't give you the full benefit of erg-mode but you can still do proper workouts just by shifting gears. Your ability to control your cadence is a bit limited doing things this way, that's probably my main complaint other than it feels a bit weird riding at 70rpm in 50-14 when there's a climb in the video!
If you want to use Zwift them I think you do need a turbo that measures power to get the best out of it, but you can still ride it with a dumb turbo. I did it during my trial. I wasn't a fan of the computer game style of Zwift so stuck with Sufferfest, but it worked.
I have an Elite Volare Mag turbo and the Elite Quick-Motion rollers. The turbo works perfectly for what I want. I know which level of resistance I need to set for the different Sufferfest videos I ride and the power numbers are reproducible enough (as long as tyre pressure is the same) for me to use it effectively. The rollers are absolutely brilliant. I've used 4-5 different types of rollers from Elite and other brands. These particular rollers absorb movement of the bike and it makes them extremely stable. This means I can do out of the saddle riding very easily, sprints feel a lot safer and so on. Highly recommended if you go that route and they do make a smart version that works in erg mode, although the heat generated can effect power readings according to reviews on YouTube.
The Tacx Neo has a strange issue. There is a bearing in the flywheel that requires a 24 spline ring nut tool to access. These tools are pretty hard to get hold of and they're expensive. I know of a couple of people who have had this bearing fail. I think Tacx sent both of them a new flywheel, so they will sort it, but it's a bit of a pain. This may also be the case with other direct drive turbos, I have no idea. Both of the one I know of failed within, I think, 10-12 months of heavy use. The load on these bearings is going to be high, so it's not hugely surprising they need replacing. Something to think about when deciding what to go with. People I know seem to either have Tacx or Wahoo smart trainers. That's possibly because those are ones stocked around us. I have Elite indoor training gear and it's been fantastic.
as 42x16 says, it depends on what you want to do. I've found speed/cadence sensors and a dumb turbo with Sufferfest are more than enough for training. Watts may not be accurate but they are reproducible which is all you really need for training. I also use rollers which have a measured power curve so speed/cadence works for that. This won't give you the full benefit of erg-mode but you can still do proper workouts just by shifting gears. Your ability to control your cadence is a bit limited doing things this way, that's probably my main complaint other than it feels a bit weird riding at 70rpm in 50-14 when there's a climb in the video!
If you want to use Zwift them I think you do need a turbo that measures power to get the best out of it, but you can still ride it with a dumb turbo. I did it during my trial. I wasn't a fan of the computer game style of Zwift so stuck with Sufferfest, but it worked.
I have an Elite Volare Mag turbo and the Elite Quick-Motion rollers. The turbo works perfectly for what I want. I know which level of resistance I need to set for the different Sufferfest videos I ride and the power numbers are reproducible enough (as long as tyre pressure is the same) for me to use it effectively. The rollers are absolutely brilliant. I've used 4-5 different types of rollers from Elite and other brands. These particular rollers absorb movement of the bike and it makes them extremely stable. This means I can do out of the saddle riding very easily, sprints feel a lot safer and so on. Highly recommended if you go that route and they do make a smart version that works in erg mode, although the heat generated can effect power readings according to reviews on YouTube.
I find Zwift to be better for less structured base kms, where you're getting up time on the bike during bad weather while Sufferfest/TrainerRoad are for structured training. If you know what you're aiming to do in a ride you can plan for it in Zwift with the route selection at the start of your ride.
I can see using a dumb trainer and powermeter/speed sensor being a lot less engaging with Zwift than a smart trainer, but fine for other apps like Sufferfest.
I can see using a dumb trainer and powermeter/speed sensor being a lot less engaging with Zwift than a smart trainer, but fine for other apps like Sufferfest.
I'd recommend spending some time (and money if you have to … ie. talking to a good coach) on how to train effectively (ie. aerobic capacity, threshold, strength, power, etc) … so that you truly understand training (how a body responds) fundamentals.
After that ... any decent trainer (Kurt Kinetic Road Machine, Tacx Bushido) will serve ALL your purposes, seriously. Don't get caught up in the X shampoo=shiny hair hype. No worries, we all lose our common sense when we want to go faster. LOL!
I have a Tacx Neo and really like it for the GPS rides. I work strange hours sometimes so trainers are a life saver for me, plus the GPS rides I load are places that I ride when I go on vacation so I can at least pretend to be someplace nice while i'm suffering at 2 a.m.!!!
Any thoughts on keeping motivated on a trainer. I can't do more than 90 mins. After that my undercarriage literally goes numb to the point I wonder if there's a circulation problem. Are rockerplates the answer?
The Kurt Kinetic R1 is a direct drive turbo that allows for some movement of the bike. I've never used one, but the price seems reasonable for what you get and I know people who really liked the rock and roll trainers. I'm pretty careful about workouts I do on turbos as I've had problems with my shoulders get much worse and it seems to be linked with the static nature of the bike. I could imagine this would cause problems downstairs as well. I use ISM saddles on all my bikes and these have made big differences for me (currently testing some JCob saddles too for a bike fitter friend).
In terms of motivation, I can manage 2 hours if I'm following a specific video (I generally use Sufferfest) and working towards specific goals where my motivation is more driven by the results I expect at the end of the process. If I'm just training for training's sake then 60-90 minutes is more than enough. I also think that spending any longer than 2 hours on a turbo probably means I should be out on the road. I get the most benefit from those short, focussed sessions (even compared to an evening chain gang) which have specific aims. If it's longer and more general, I'll take it outside.
I rode a smart trainer most days for about 6 months from January last year after a serious back injury whilist I waited for surgery. Buying a Wahoo KickR was one of the best things I have ever done. I didn't buy it because I knew I'd get injured be gee I'm glad I did! I can't speak for other brands as I haven't used them but the KickR does everything I could ask of it in fact it is capabale of a lot more than I am!
As 42x16 says, it works well with programs like Zwift and this is exactly how I used it most days. Not on group rides but choosing some of the training sessions such as The Gorby which is a 60 minute session that builds your FTP. But I also did 30 minute intense interval sets just using the Wahoo App on my phone and manually scaling up and down the power in erg mpde. That the Wahoo was used by Sky / Ineous also gave me confidence is it a top notch unit. Its never failed and hasn't disappointed me.
For motivation it was a matter of resetting my expectations. I managed this just looking at my garage wall and my watts, not even any music, But if you can add music it would no doubt help pass the time and pain. To take pressure off my lower back I could not ride on the road but a fixed position on a trainer for maximum 30 minutes was fine. I could still do very intense sessions.
In summary, the KickR is a bit pricy but worth every cent.
You could use a saddle with a cut-out, which is also the correct width for your sit bones. Make sure that it's adjusted to the correct height, fore or aft position on the seatpost clamps and angle. Get out of the saddle regularly, to relieve pressure in the perineum region. A good quality chamois should also be of benefit.
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Armchair cyclist
Moderator
Any idea about repairability? I have a Tacx Smart Flow, out of warranty, and the unit has suddenly stopped: no light, no bluetooth communication to or from it. Tried switching the cable but no joy: nothing obviously user-accessible.
We can ride outdoors here, but a car cut me up last week, and shoulder tendons v tender.
We can ride outdoors here, but a car cut me up last week, and shoulder tendons v tender.
Not sure about repairability, but Garmin/Tacx will still support it, just not under warranty.
support.garmin.com
Not sure where you're located but there will be a regional support contact for all major regions.
Tacx® Flow Smart Trainer | Garmin Support
Garmin Support Centre is where you will find answers to frequently asked questions and resources to help with all of your Garmin products.
support.garmin.com
Not sure where you're located but there will be a regional support contact for all major regions.
Armchair cyclist
Moderator
Hi all,
on the same matter, I've heard a lot on smart trainer having issues after 6 months to 1Y; but I can't find that sort of feedback on the last Tacx (tacx neo 2t smart). Does that mean that they finally manage to fix the problem, or just not enough look back period ?
Did you heard anything about that model ? it's quite an expensive one (1200€), so would like to be sure it's worth it!!
Thx in advance,
on the same matter, I've heard a lot on smart trainer having issues after 6 months to 1Y; but I can't find that sort of feedback on the last Tacx (tacx neo 2t smart). Does that mean that they finally manage to fix the problem, or just not enough look back period ?
Did you heard anything about that model ? it's quite an expensive one (1200€), so would like to be sure it's worth it!!
Thx in advance,
Thanks for this thread. I think I'm finally going to be able to purchase a wheel off trainer which I've been wanting to get for awhile.
Fingers crossed you can find one, they seem to be sold out pretty much everywhere.
Thanks. If nothing else, I can put the money in savings and wait til they are back in stock again.
I don't know if they refresh the lines at a similar time to bike manufacturers, or what effect the pandemic has had on production lines, but fingers crossed they start appearing on the market soon. Do you know which one you want?
I was leaning towards a Wahoo and went to my LBS today to talk with them. (had been debating between Wahoo and Elite) They actually deal with Wahoo and were trying to talk to their rep. They explained the differences between the Kickr and the Kickr Core. I'm getting a Kickr Core, which they were able to order once they finally were able to get their rep on the phone. Apparently the entire thing is a mess getting product and they have some, but don't have them because they aren't processed or something. I should have the Kickr Core in about 2 weeks. Also since the cassette on my bike is an 11-25 we're going to up it to an 11-28 for the trainer. The Kickr comes with a cassette where the Core doesn't.
Also while I was at the shop they just got off the phone with their bike supplier rep and that the new mountain bikes should start showing up in about 2-3 weeks. (The bike shop is a Specialized shop that sells Felt as well).
Armchair cyclist
Moderator
It is the software rather than the trainer that will track distance: there is a very high correlation between price and power accuracy of trainers. I would fear for you doing regular 3 hours on a trainer: it really can be very boring. Forget the graphics of your software and watch some box sets, I would suggest.
Rouvy will allow you to set your own real life rides from Strava or its equivalents which should give you confidence in distance (but I get times about 5% faster on Rouvy than I can in real life on the same routes, not all of which will be down to never having to worry about traffic)
Rouvy will allow you to set your own real life rides from Strava or its equivalents which should give you confidence in distance (but I get times about 5% faster on Rouvy than I can in real life on the same routes, not all of which will be down to never having to worry about traffic)
Podcasts/Netflix on my phone has been great for long roller rides. My main issue is they seem to beat me up more than a road ride. An hour on the rollers feels like several on the road. I'm usually a little faster on Zwift than on the road, but the power is the same (crank based measurements) so I'm good with that. Zwift doesn't have Scottish road surfaces and weather to contend with.
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