• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

So another former team mate is +ive

Jun 11, 2010
28
0
0
Visit site
I know they didn't get along and the time they spent together was a little strained at times but, just how many former teammates have gone down the doping road since they left the fold?

As a fan of conspiricey theories, it would appear that once the protective shield afforded by the 'Donation' towards the war on doping has been lost it is so so easy to get caught out.

Niether fanboy or hater, just a neutral observer.

As an aside, is there any science behind the tainted spanish meat story? What sort of levels are in spanish meat?

Also if the levels were 400 times lower than the standard and the lab hasn't been used before, surely there might be many other athletes who eat spanish meat with the potentiol to fail such a test?

Just a few thoughts.
 
i don't think it is just a theory. we know that armstrong paid the uci for his team to be protected. we know how pi$$ed off he got when team mates would leave to try and gain individual success. we know that as soon as they left they practically all test positive without the protection.

lemond even alludes to the fact that things are not equal and there is no transparency.
 
Jul 29, 2010
431
0
0
Visit site
I think that's obviously what Lemond is saying...."can’t believe how many people have left a certain team and then gone positive."

Mentions he is trying to "walk a fine line" -- ie, if he comes out and says it, ppl will just call him a crazy old nutter w/ an axe to grind against Lance.

But yeah, he is thinking the same thing we all are thinking.

I can't believe the UCI let this cat out of the bag. Couldn't they give Berto a chance to "contribute to the fight against doping by buying a Sysmex machine to be used to test junionrs"?? Sheesh :p

What is the logic outcome of this? Berto has to be stripped of his TdF title. The positive ocurred during the Tour. Berto will also have to be blackballed by the UCI now. Anything less would be unfair to Floyd -- let alone guys like Heras, Sevilla, or Rasmussen.

Why was this allowed to slip? Is it b/c nowadays any positive is reported to not only the UCI but ALSO to WADA? My guess is back in the day, WADA was kept out of the loop, and thus financial "arrangements" were possible b/w the UCI and the involved rider...

If there is any positive outcome to all of this, it is that Riis is now totally shafted for next year. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy :rolleyes:
 
Apr 19, 2009
190
0
0
Visit site
Big Doopie said:
i don't think it is just a theory. we know that armstrong paid the uci for his team to be protected. we know how pi$$ed off he got when team mates would leave to try and gain individual success. we know that as soon as they left they practically all test positive without the protection.

lemond even alludes to the fact that things are not equal and there is no transparency.

I think we KNOW that we all believe this to be true, but how can you say we know when there has yet to be any hard evidence other than theories? Until i see proof or a conviction from the US GOVT then its just hersay.
 
Jul 23, 2010
18
0
0
Visit site
Contador and every other rider are grown men who make their own decisions. As much as I hate LA, I think I hate Lemond even more for his bitter feud. Blaming Contador's choice to dope on having been a former LA teammate is a stretch (it implies that he never doped before joining Astana). I think if anything, it just proves that the whole damn sport is filthy and all the top riders are doping at some level or another.
 
May 22, 2009
68
0
0
Visit site
Big Doopie said:
i don't think it is just a theory. we know that armstrong paid the uci for his team to be protected. we know how pi$$ed off he got when team mates would leave to try and gain individual success. we know that as soon as they left they practically all test positive without the protection.

lemond even alludes to the fact that things are not equal and there is no transparency.

Any evidence of this, or just more hater 'facts' where pure specualtion gets over emphasised and becomes the cradle of an argument without any basis whatsoever to the point where it would be so hard to go back and admit you dont have any evidence, that they all just become aresholes?
 
May 13, 2009
692
1
0
Visit site
whocares said:
Contador and every other rider are grown men who make their own decisions. As much as I hate LA, I think I hate Lemond even more for his bitter feud. Blaming Contador's choice to dope on having been a former LA teammate is a stretch (it implies that he never doped before joining Astana). I think if anything, it just proves that the whole damn sport is filthy and all the top riders are doping at some level or another.


You don't really understand anything do you?:D
 
Ecowarrior18 said:
...
As an aside, is there any science behind the tainted spanish meat story? What sort of levels are in spanish meat?

...Just a few thoughts.

Well, actually there is. In fact people have died from eating meat from livestock that had been given Clenbuterol, a long half-life agent (it stays around a long time). According to the link below, Clen has been used for decades in the foreign veterinary world, for increasing the lean yield of livestock. Check the site below for more information on it...
http://www.isteroids.com/steroids/Clenbuterol.html

Personally, I don't buy the tainted meat excuse. Riis is a suck-up. And LeMond, well, he shouldn't be shocked at all by this recent +ive.
 
Nov 17, 2009
2,388
0
0
Visit site
The whole conspiracy theory thing is hard for me to buy with this.

I can believe that maybe Bruyneel and company are better at avoiding detection. I can even believe that they might pay some people off to avoid getting caught.

I have trouble believing they are somehow framing other riders for taking performance enhancers.

Contador most likely doped prior to joining Bruyneel. He most likely doped with Bruyneel. He most likely doped after leaving Bruyneel. Even if team Radioshack somehow "told" on Contador... he still took the drugs. And he's not some domestique that can be forced by the team to dope... he IS the team.

He could get out of this... other riders have done so. But this attempt to tie this back to Bruyneel/Armstrong is just laughable. Are we going to find a way to blame Ricco and Mosquera's stuff on them too?
 
Oct 18, 2009
456
0
0
Visit site
Ecowarrior18 said:
I know they didn't get along and the time they spent together was a little strained at times but, just how many former teammates have gone down the doping road since they left the fold?

As a fan of conspiricey theories, it would appear that once the protective shield afforded by the 'Donation' towards the war on doping has been lost it is so so easy to get caught out.

Niether fanboy or hater, just a neutral observer.

As an aside, is there any science behind the tainted spanish meat story? What sort of levels are in spanish meat?

Also if the levels were 400 times lower than the standard and the lab hasn't been used before, surely there might be many other athletes who eat spanish meat with the potentiol to fail such a test?

Just a few thoughts.

When I heard the news, to be honest,my first thought was FQ McQaid has organised contadors positive as a means of deflating the suspicion around the UCI only prosecuting drugs charges against weak little riders who cant defend themselves/ enemies.
But now McQaid seems to have shot himself in the foot since, as you pointed out, Contador used to live in the Armstrong house and would have been protected from positives.
 
May 26, 2010
28,143
5
0
Visit site
kurtinsc said:
The whole conspiracy theory thing is hard for me to buy with this.

I can believe that maybe Bruyneel and company are better at avoiding detection. I can even believe that they might pay some people off to avoid getting caught.

I have trouble believing they are somehow framing other riders for taking performance enhancers.

Contador most likely doped prior to joining Bruyneel. He most likely doped with Bruyneel. He most likely doped after leaving Bruyneel. Even if team Radioshack somehow "told" on Contador... he still took the drugs. And he's not some domestique that can be forced by the team to dope... he IS the team.

He could get out of this... other riders have done so. But this attempt to tie this back to Bruyneel/Armstrong is just laughable. Are we going to find a way to blame Ricco and Mosquera's stuff on them too?

they didn't ride for JB.

you have little understanding of how petty people can be. LA/JB have big $$$$ at their disposal and have bought off the UCI before. Now if they were careful about how they did it they can and would use it against UCI in order to gain as much control over the peloton as they can. A serious number of riders tested positive after leaving the LA/JB fold, too many in my opinion for it to be unlucky. If these riders learned from the supposedly best, they should never have gotten caught but somehow they did!
 
Nov 17, 2009
2,388
0
0
Visit site
Benotti69 said:
they didn't ride for JB.

you have little understanding of how petty people can be. LA/JB have big $$$$ at their disposal and have bought off the UCI before. Now if they were careful about how they did it they can and would use it against UCI in order to gain as much control over the peloton as they can. A serious number of riders tested positive after leaving the LA/JB fold, too many in my opinion for it to be unlucky. If these riders learned from the supposedly best, they should never have gotten caught but somehow they did!

A number of riders ON their teams tested positive too. And a number of riders who didn't ride for them tested positive.

Yes, they doped. Yes, everyone else doped. They aren't to blame for Boonen's Coke binges just because he once rode for Postal, and CSC isn't to blame when Basso had his drug issues while signed with Discovery. Mercatone Uno isn't to blame when Garzelli tested positive at Mapei. The riders doing drugs are to blame.

I'm sure the riders in question DID dope at Postal/Disco/Astana/RS. And they continued doping when they left. I just don't buy the idea that Bruyneel/Armstrong created a conspiracy to "get them".

Why is Bruyneel the culprit for Hamilton getting caught... why not Riis? Afterall, Hamilton was caught after he left CSC... not immediately following his exit from Postal.

To be honest, going down the list there isn't a huge discrepancy between the number of "ex postal" guys on the list of doping suspensions compared to "ex T-Mobile" or "ex CSC" lists. Yeah... those teams were all doping it up and covering it up fairly well. I don't think any of them did anything to make sure their ex-riders got caught.
 
Aug 19, 2010
66
0
0
Visit site
Everything that ever happens always comes back to how they relate to Lance Armstrong and Greg Lemond for some of you people.

Now Alberto's positive, if that's what it even is, is Lance's fault? Or is further proof that Lance cheated. Wow--that's a stretch.

Even for Lemond, who is so hell bent to discount Armstrong's 7 consecutive wins to make his own 3 look better that every sentence he writes or speaks includes some sort of allegation against Armstrong.

Lemond is a whiner with a victim mentality--even before Armstrong, look at the videos. He was a whiner and made excuses.

I'm not saying whether Lance doped or not, and frankly I don't care. I'm just amazed how intent many of you are to somehow turn everything that happens against Armstrong.

Armstrong and Lemond, and Contador, are all likely major egomaniacs and jerks; how can you win a Grand Tour and not be? But out of the three of them, something tells me that Lemond would be the least fun to be around...:rolleyes:
 
Feed The Monster

You guys have to work on your inflammatory statements.

It should be obvious that Pharmador's positive comes because he's getting perilously close to meeting/exceeding Armstrong's myth. Pharmador is notching TdF wins while qualifying for "most tested athlete in the world" and "never tested positive." Boss Hog and the mighty Armstrong got Pat to prosecute this one. There's no doubt Armstrong is behind it!!!

For you LeMond haters, it's obvious Pharmador threatens LeMond's accomplishments too! Hein will take Greg's call any day of the week and get Pat to publish the positive. Pat's still getting Hein's coffee. LeMond haters should probably continue to post unlikely claims that LeMond doped too. You should add LeMond hates God, America and apple pie too. All that time he spent in France (speaking French!) turned him into a Socialist too. That makes him more evil.

Seriously, not everything is about those two. Pharmador can dope all on his own. He certainly has a record of being hired by DS's friendly to PED's.
 
Jul 19, 2010
74
0
0
Visit site
Hahaha. The hate continues. Please focus on the guy that just got CAUGHT cheating. Trying to tie the two together at this point is ridiculous. Contador cheated because Schleck was going to beat him it's that simple. Armstrong was a washed up 39 year old NON factor in this year's race.

Just look at the stage where he got caught. The day AFTER he took the race lead by 8 seconds.
 

flicker

BANNED
Aug 17, 2009
4,153
0
0
Visit site
jae2460 said:
Everything that ever happens always comes back to how they relate to Lance Armstrong and Greg Lemond for some of you people.

Now Alberto's positive, if that's what it even is, is Lance's fault? Or is further proof that Lance cheated. Wow--that's a stretch.

Even for Lemond, who is so hell bent to discount Armstrong's 7 consecutive wins to make his own 3 look better that every sentence he writes or speaks includes some sort of allegation against Armstrong.

Lemond is a whiner with a victim mentality--even before Armstrong, look at the videos. He was a whiner and made excuses.

I'm not saying whether Lance doped or not, and frankly I don't care. I'm just amazed how intent many of you are to somehow turn everything that happens against Armstrong.

Armstrong and Lemond, and Contador, are all likely major egomaniacs and jerks; how can you win a Grand Tour and not be? But out of the three of them, something tells me that Lemond would be the least fun to be around...:rolleyes:
Lance is an all around good guy. Pharmador is an emphatic spaniard the eptidome of civility. Greg just wants fairness. All three super human beans. How are they jerks?
 
Jun 6, 2010
67
0
0
Visit site
jae2460 said:
Everything that ever happens always comes back to how they relate to Lance Armstrong and Greg Lemond for some of you people.

Now Alberto's positive, if that's what it even is, is Lance's fault? Or is further proof that Lance cheated. Wow--that's a stretch.

Even for Lemond, who is so hell bent to discount Armstrong's 7 consecutive wins to make his own 3 look better that every sentence he writes or speaks includes some sort of allegation against Armstrong.

Lemond is a whiner with a victim mentality--even before Armstrong, look at the videos. He was a whiner and made excuses.

I'm not saying whether Lance doped or not, and frankly I don't care. I'm just amazed how intent many of you are to somehow turn everything that happens against Armstrong.

Armstrong and Lemond, and Contador, are all likely major egomaniacs and jerks; how can you win a Grand Tour and not be? But out of the three of them, something tells me that Lemond would be the least fun to be around...:rolleyes:

im not arguing against your view - but on Contador he is

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/millar-calls-for-calm-in-contador-case
 
Jamsque said:
The only recorded cases of Clenbuterol poisoning are in China as far as I know.

Race Radio said:
No, there have been dozens in the US, France, Belgium, and Spain

Jamsque said:
Link?

wordswordswords

Don't know about deaths, but there have been numerous poisonings of Clen in 1992 in Spain. See the link below (Clen food poisoning in Spain):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1382130/

Then there's some other information out there, basically pointing out the serious health risks associated with Clen:
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=280516
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/mus.20407/full
 
Jul 29, 2010
431
0
0
Visit site
whocares said:
Contador and every other rider are grown men who make their own decisions. As much as I hate LA, I think I hate Lemond even more for his bitter feud. Blaming Contador's choice to dope on having been a former LA teammate is a stretch (it implies that he never doped before joining Astana)...

Wow, dude you couldn't catch Lemond's meaning if we gave you a butterfly net.
Seriously.