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So how should rider transfers and contracts work?

Jul 1, 2009
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Pat McQuaid says he wants the UCI to look at the contract and transfer rules.

"Perhaps we need to put more rules in there to try to control these scenarios, or make better sense out of them."

Compared to other sports, cycling has the Pro Tour structure now, but not a League necessarily. Sponsors and teams come and go. Disparate organizations still govern and own races. The payrolls are markedly smaller (median US baseball team salary was $80 M in 2009).

Despite bank guarantees, salaries haven't been paid at times. Riders leave without buyout clauses, are asked to renegotiate after signing, sign but then claim they haven't. And that's for the known names, with press stories often the favored form of communication. For the remaining riders, it resembles a game of musical chairs.

The current system may be broken, but what's better? Did it used to work any better? Are there any other sports that serve as models? What's the biggest problem right now? Do the riders need a stronger organization? How do people think it should work?
 
Mar 13, 2009
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this comes under purview of contract law.

No need to change.

Rider contracts are rarely longer than 2 years. I believe at FDJ Lovkvist had a contract that gave him a release if another team offered him more money. High Road did.

It is only a problem, because Brailsford and Wiggo assumed he could leave. The first step should have been Brailsford v JV, and Brailsford negotiating a sum, if Wiggins agreed to leave. This is free market negotiation. There is no need to write it into the UCI regulations. Wiggo had a contract, which will be recognised by contract law, albeit it may be confined to domain of national signed in. But this is about the mishandling of Wiggins.

They played this badly. Brailsford was a bull in a china shop, with Wiggo's consent. I can imagine JV would be aggrieved. There is a price for anything in the free market. So negotiate first.

Wiggo's manager, and the manager of Bellis, Swift and others, even Cav, have played it badly. They all should have had a clause like Lovkvist. Albeit, it needs the other party to consent to said clause. And Cav wont be leaving, and he needs 6 or so riders, assigned to him, but he could use it for better leverage, not to jump ship to Sky.

I was told Peter Kennaugh was offered to High Road for 2009 this year too. But they were pretty full on their neo-pro quota.

Cav has to go to Sky at some point, if he wants to win the GB national jersey. He cant win on High Road v Sky riders in a race.
 
Nov 17, 2009
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Have a requirement that all teams contracts are signed under the law of a single country.

It's not fair to teams or to riders to have contracts enforced or broken based on the fact that some countries treat them differently then others.


Other possibilites:

1. If you want the teams to have more power, have all contracts approved by the UCI. Once that contract is approved, the team has to "trade" the rights of the rider to another team or "release" the rider for him to sign with another team. Any team riding in a UCI event would have to abide by these rules.

The contract law of the countries wouldn't matter... the rider might be able to escape a contract in terms of not riding... but the team would still own his "rights"... so he couldn't ride for another team participating in UCI events.


This is similar to the NFL draft in the US. A player doesn't have to sign with the team... but no other team can sign him either. The one team has the RIGHTS to that player.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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the US and UK recognise commerical contracts. No way Wiggins could have rode in 2010 if JV put his foot down and said f u. It was brinkmanship. Brailsford and Wiggo won out, with a commercial settlement as compensation
 
Sep 16, 2009
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The only close comparison, IMO, for our purposes is something like Formula 1, where drivers race for their respective teams under contract to that team at races organized in various countries around the world. The comparison ends there because drivers at the highest level really only have a choice between 2 or 3 teams and national interests rarely, if ever, enter the equation. With cycling even though all of theses teams,Sky,Garmin, etc. are ProTour teams, it seems as though the ProTour has little real authority when it comes to this issue. It is not like the EPL or La Liga, where FIFA ultimately governs transfers, etc. Even if it were to ban a rider from racing in UCI events for a team while technically under contract to another team, this would only effect those races that the UCI has direct authority over, and not TDF, Giro, etc.
The answer, I think will take way too much cooperation between disparate interests that I don't think its ultimately worth the effort. This is an example of an issue being raised, largely in part by one team [Sky], using national interests as a motivating factor to convince riders they desire to have on their team to break existing contracts. They targeted Wiggins immediately after his July revelation and would stop at nothing short of him being the centerpiece of all their 2010 efforts. What they need to realize is that Sky is not the British olympic team and he needs to stop managing it that way.Sky and Brailsford should be embarassed at how they've gone about this but ultimately in pro cycling teams,riders and sponsers come and go while the races seem to be the only constant and maybe its better that way.
 
While it's true that most contracts are one or two years long we have seen a shift in the past couple of years with more contracts of three and four years being signed which was pretty much unheard of before. So this means problems with riders being under contract but still being pursued is not likely to go away by itself. Lots can happen during 2-3 years that change the situation for a rider who is still under contract.

I don't know what should be done but something has to adopt with the changing times.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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i think that the team and the rider should have a breakout clause on every contract. if the team is not happy the can get the rid of the rider and so should the rider be able to get out of the contract.

Their should also be the law that riders can not be transfered once the date December 1. The season is about to start. Australian Nationals start on the 5th of July.
 
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blackcat said:
. No way Wiggins could have rode in 2010 if JV put his foot down and said f u. It was brinkmanship. Brailsford and Wiggo won out, with a commercial settlement as compensation

and that is all it was.. JV didnt have to let him go... and brad would have ridden for garmin..
 
May 6, 2009
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dimspace said:
and that is all it was.. JV didnt have to let him go... and brad would have ridden for garmin..

Or spent 2010 at the pub. As for Cav, I can't see him at Sky until 2013, when his contract with Columbia finishes (it finishes at the end of 2011, but then has the option for 2012).
 
Aug 3, 2009
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craig1985 said:
Or spent 2010 at the pub. As for Cav, I can't see him at Sky until 2013, when his contract with Columbia finishes (it finishes at the end of 2011, but then has the option for 2012).

I can't see Cav wanting to go to Sky at all. They have made it quite clear that the GC is their big ambition and Columbia are a team that are very happy chasing sprint victories and points jerseys. Unless something changing dramatically in the outlook of those two teams or Cav becomes a more all round classics rider (possible give his age), why would he want to jump ship at all and especially to Sky?
 
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craig1985 said:
Or spent 2010 at the pub. As for Cav, I can't see him at Sky until 2013, when his contract with Columbia finishes (it finishes at the end of 2011, but then has the option for 2012).

I wonder how long it takes for Cav to get bored at Columbia actually. He's so young, and he's already the best sprinter under a train. Next year, he probably wins green, then the year after, guys like Rogers and Martin leave for a GC team?

Columbia by 2012 is going to be so Cav focused in the Giro and Tour that when he leaves they will have no ambition. No GC riders will be left in 2 years, IMO, and the sprint train will have no leader. Does Cav start focusing on races like Roubaix or is he too small for them? I fear that after 2-3 years of winning points at the Giro and Tour, and going for SanRemo as a one-day race, he will get bored, unless Farrar steps up to the same level.

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As for the contracts. FREE MARKET.

Deadlines by the UCI are ridiculous, and they don't need to 'enforce' contracts themselves, because a contract is a contract!

The Wiggo drama is simple. Yes he was under contract, but if JV "forced" Wiggins to honour the contract then he's not going to running the most joyful team now is he? When you have sour rider wanting out, its actually better for the manager to let them go. Better for both parties. If I was a manager, and a rider said look I really want out of this team, that already is a signal that he is unhappy and therefore less productive. See ya mate, don't need negative riders on my team!!

As for buyout clauses. Completely the rider's agent and team's managers issue. I doubt Wiggo had the market power when he signed with JV to actually have the nerve to say I think I need a buyout clause. If you are a decent rider, include one, but again, let the market decide. You need some leverage to actually ask for one (or your agent does)

The UCI can stick their nose out of these personal employment contracts. They will just over regulate it and create adverse incentives (like ALL labour market regulation does)
 
Jul 26, 2009
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personally i think its best for all , wiggo leaving , VDV has said he is relieved, still has respect for wiggo , but knows things are simpler an he is the gc man period, ...........millar has aslo said he is kool with it and looking forward to the competition without any animosity

while i dont think brailsford behaved appropriately, or wiggo for that matter , i do think JV's assestment and finally just letting wiggo out of his contract for whatever reasons ( sporting and legal according to the man ) are , well , for lack of a better word descent.........what do you do , keep him , not so sure you can at that point

dont forget brad, garmin/JV was the team that put you on the map in tearms of GC
 
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cav has already said, if i a few years sky is the best team, he will ride for sky, if another team is the best team, he will ride for them..

as for contracts.. everyone has the right to work for whoever they want to work for.. freedom of trade is a right to any eu person..

we all have contracts, they state what we earn, what the terms and conditions are of out employment, some of us even have contracts, i know the wife did, she had 1 year contracts initially.. but if she wanted to move jobs then she could do..they guarantee her a job for a year, she doesnt promise she will not leave during that year if she is unhappy!!!

have contracts, fine, they give employee (the rider) some security, they specificy the terms and conditions etc, but if a rider wants to go to another team, thats his decision.. who the hell is anyone to tell me who i have to work for.. all it needs is a independant panel to agree on "compensation" paid to a team when a rider leaves in contract..

riders have to have the same rights as other employees in other industries.. freedom of trade.!
 
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I actually think JV and Dave should stop their whining and get out with looking forward to next season, and channel their energies into winning races instead of moaning on about how how poor little garmin have been treated so badly.. they aint no angels when it comes to business...

gotta remember.. JV was all in favour of this idea when sky where willing to buy contadope for him!!!! how the story changed when he found out he was just getting a couple of million

i do love garmin as a team, and i have a lot of respect and support for DM.. but stop the whining.. get on with 2010 guys..

WIN.. DONT WHINE!
 
Jul 26, 2009
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dimspace said:
cav has already said, if i a few years sky is the best team, he will ride for sky, if another team is the best team, he will ride for them..

as for contracts.. everyone has the right to work for whoever they want to work for.. freedom of trade is a right to any eu person..

we all have contracts, they state what we earn, what the terms and conditions are of out employment, some of us even have contracts, i know the wife did, she had 1 year contracts initially.. but if she wanted to move jobs then she could do..they guarantee her a job for a year, she doesnt promise she will not leave during that year if she is unhappy!!!

have contracts, fine, they give employee (the rider) some security, they specificy the terms and conditions etc, but if a rider wants to go to another team, thats his decision.. who the hell is anyone to tell me who i have to work for.. all it needs is a independant panel to agree on "compensation" paid to a team when a rider leaves in contract..
riders have to have the same rights as other employees in other industries.. freedom of trade.!

thats not hows its supposed to work........and i guess your wifes employers dont promise not to take her to court for contract infringement.......no one held a gun to brad siringe's head and forced him to sign on at garmin, he made a choice......whining......ok how about id rather play at man u instead of wiggan.........how about garmin takes him to court wins, because they clearly would win ,he sits out a year or loses a nice chunk of change.......i bet we would hear some whining then
 
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lagartija said:
thats not hows its supposed to work........and i guess your wifes employers dont promise not to take her to court for contract infringement.......no one held a gun to brad siringe's head and forced him to sign on at garmin, he made a choice......whining......ok how about id rather play at man u instead of wiggan.........how about garmin takes him to court wins, because they clearly would win ,he sits out a year or loses a nice chunk of change.......i bet we would hear some whining then

a lot of teachers start off on one year contracts which are renewed each year.. nothing stopping you leaving though if a better job comes up (for instance a longer contract) or you are unhappy in your job..

its becoming more common to keep them on 1 year contracts as well.. teaching is so weird in that your number of customers (kids) changes each year.. at the moment there are massive declines in intakes, not due to rise again till 2015
 
Mar 13, 2009
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craig1985 said:
Or spent 2010 at the pub. As for Cav, I can't see him at Sky until 2013, when his contract with Columbia finishes (it finishes at the end of 2011, but then has the option for 2012).

I can't see Cav going if Sky have a rider for the legit GC attempt. 2010 is for podium, and if they have a legit winner, no way they will be giving Cav 4 or 5 riders. Depends how Cav's career progresses, and if he tries to win cobble monuments. He has the ambition. Museeuw was a sprinter, Vanderaeden had the classics strength and endurance, but Museeuw got his classics talent in the needle. Who's to say Cav cant do what Boonen did from 2004-2008? Win both.

Then Cav would be happy with one leadout man, and another for positioning his leadout. All three can TTT well for the first half of the TTT. Clancy was a good budding prospect for the road. Great Langkawi in 2006. He might cross after London.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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dimspace said:
I actually think JV and Dave should stop their whining and get out with looking forward to next season, and channel their energies into winning races instead of moaning on about how how poor little garmin have been treated so badly.. they aint no angels when it comes to business...

gotta remember.. JV was all in favour of this idea when sky where willing to buy contadope for him!!!! how the story changed when he found out he was just getting a couple of million

i do love garmin as a team, and i have a lot of respect and support for DM.. but stop the whining.. get on with 2010 guys..

WIN.. DONT WHINE!
Sorry Dim - but I am going to point out some obvious differences here.

Contador honoured his contract!
He even did so after the UCI said he could break the contract.

Yes, Garmin made inquiries - before the Tour when it looked as though Astana would fold. But even after the Tour they said they would only pursue him if he became available.

This is what JV said in September "Contador is great, love to have him. But he has a contract. End of story".

If Wiggans wanted to leave Garmin after one year he should have signed a one year deal - instead he acted like a petulant child until it gave Garmin no option to retain his services.
 
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Dr. Maserati said:
Sorry Dim - but I am going to point out some obvious differences here.

Contador honoured his contract!
He even did so after the UCI said he could break the contract.

Yes, Garmin made inquiries - before the Tour when it looked as though Astana would fold. But even after the Tour they said they would only pursue him if he became available.

This is what JV said in September "Contador is great, love to have him. But he has a contract. End of story".

If Wiggans wanted to leave Garmin after one year he should have signed a one year deal - instead he acted like a petulant child until it gave Garmin no option to retain his services.

my point being, garmin are whining now about brad going, but we didnt see nearly so much moaning from them when it looked like they might get AC as part of the deal...
 
Mar 13, 2009
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I don't understand why they don't do it like in soccer for example, where a team has to pay a release fee (I don't know if this is the right word) to the team of the player it is interested in, if the player still has a running contract.

This seemed to have been the problem in the Contador/Astana discussion, as far as I understood it was almost impossible for him to get out of that contract.

I like the fact though that many Continental or Pro Continental teams let their riders go if they get an offer from a ProTour team!