So What do you Make Of Contador to Garmin Deal?

[Juan Pelota]

The Rumor has it if Astana didn't make the financial payments then Contador would have split and left to Garmin.
How is no one talking about this?

WHat does this say about how AC is riding? Dirty? Clean? What does this say about Garmin?

Remember the Puerto reports? It never actually said AC was on anything, or it was at least ambiguous.

I'm not naive enough to think AC never did the dirty, but I also think he's a FREAK and just may be riding clean this year.

Opinions?

 

[BroDeal]

If there is any truth to it, it says Vaughters has sold out. No way is Contador, with his history at Liberty Seguros and with what Vaughters knows goes on under the Hog, compatible with the stated goals of Slipstream. I have said before that eventually Vaughters would face the reality that the team needs wins to survive long term. I thought that it would be a bit longer before he threw in the towel and that he would not do it in such an obvious way.

 

[ambrose]

yeh, AC's a hard one. He is gifted but i do feel that he was on the gear. Not sure if he still is. His TT has improved out of sight and i don't like this, but maybe hes just matured. In terms of his move possible move to garmin, probably just little more then a rumour. I do recall suggestions that he was moving to replace valverde after his suspension.

 

[rhubroma]

I think the freak of nature thing is overplayed. All professional cyclists are in a relative sense, freaks of nature. Some are just bigger freaks than others. But at the very top among the greatest freaks, the differences are minimal and modern doping has meant that if the bigest freak is clean and the second biggest freak is doped, the later wins for sure. So the greatest freak at that point either has to get jacked, or loose his throne. Armstrong called that moment when the decision has to be made the time "to step up to the plate" (or not). Thus the domino and spiral effect which has made it imposible to show up at the biggest events clean and have a chance at victory.

So Conatador can be the greatest freak and still have to dope, as has been the case with all the bigs since EPO was introduced. Plus BroDeal's right about AC's past with Saiz, etc. Nobody that rode for that guy wasn't super jacked.

I can't remeber which german sport offical said it but, in regards to AC's win at the 2007 Tour and his supposed involvment in OP, the german thought it was the greatest sporting fraud in history. AC definitely has a bloodsack somewhere there with his blood in it.

 

[karlboss]

normal distribution

Ever notice TT results, how the winner seems to win by quite a bit and the results down the table get closer and closer and then start spreading apart again? Its called normal distribution and it happens everywhere, hence the tallest man in the world is not mm taller than the next guy he is cm or inches. The top freak, statistically, should not be just a little better, but some similar margin. Though I bow to the fact it is not going to be the 10% that doping will give you.

more on topic: vaughters said they were in talks, if you had a team and the best rider in the world might come up wouldn't you be interested, and if he was suspect on drugs wouldn't you like to find out his side of the story? Its not like everyone on slipstream is squeaky clean, millar.

 

[RdBiker]

The articles about this all mention that the "rumour has been going around for weeks" and still no one on any forums has heard of it. Must mean that the romour has been going around the teams?

It's obvious that Contador has been looking for a backup plan and that the backup plan consists of another team doesn't bode well for Astana in the Tour OR in 2010. I'd also be sad if it turned out to be true that Vaughters would have taken Contador onboard with open arms. I don't believe they're clean atm but at least until now they have tried to make it look so more than anyone else.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Was surprised at this too...
ahwell, garmin loses a little crediability i guess...

anywhu surely it's ACs last season at astana, too much drama, he should (and i assume he will) go to a spanish team or something where he gets full support. Caisse seems likely.

 

[perry1234]

I have said before that eventually Vaughters would face the reality that the team needs wins to survive long term. I thought that it would be a bit longer before he threw in the towel and that he would not do it in such an obvious way.

 

[Frosty]

Didnt think i was a soap opera fan until i became more interested in pro cycling

On the face of it Contador seems an odd choice for Garmin given his links. Their credibility would go down and may have done anyway. Unless he was going to make some revelations about past experiences but then that might implicate himself. If the contact with Garmin was well known then this could have been a way to put pressure on Armstrong perhaps rather than have been a serious approach to Garmin. Maybe Garmin think vandevelde wont be ready to challenge for a top 5 spot and we might see them trying to give Contador a helping hand at times?

 

[BigBoat]

I'm not naive enough to think AC never did the dirty, but I also think he's a FREAK and just may be riding clean this year.

Opinions?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMTtS2BbehI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ivHRhWMkG0

(Beavis Laugh) I'm saving myself the typing energy.

It depends on how many riders come in at 50% hematocrit and up with autologous blood doping... if 30+ of the top guys are blood doped to 57-60% nobody would even be able to finish the Tour clean due to the incredible pace set by them....Some of the lesser riders like to microdose a naturally high crit with Dynepo. EPO is pretty much out... I'd think almost all who go positive for epo now are using blood transfusions and the epo keeps their rectics up so the doping pass doesnt show abnormalities.

 

[rolfrae]

Maybe JV just wanted a look at AC's medical date/blood passport info etc to see what he's on. Bear in mind that they walked away from Kohl at that point in the transfer process last year.

 

[BigBoat]

Maybe JV just wanted a look at AC's medical date/blood passport info etc to see what he's on. Bear in mind that they walked away from Kohl at that point in the transfer process last year.

Wasnt that after his positive...

 

[anubisza]

Wasnt that after his positive...

hahaha!

Good on Garmin I think, take advantage of the situation. Would have been a bit of a kick to CVV though.. (I would have lumped David Millar in as he's another GC candidate, though a very small chance, but he part-owns the team, so it would have been his decision as well)

 

[subzro]

I think too much is being read into things, if Astana had folded AC's choices would be in no particular order ...

1. Ride for Lance
2. Caisse
3. Garmin

Garmin in my opinion would be the best choice.

Ethically, should Garmin-Chipotle have had any qualms taking him? Ah no, any team with a convicted doper can hardly turn down a clean rider. Whatever the speculation about him.

An ideal team for him next year.

 

[rolfrae]

What does AC's favouring of a move to Garmin suggest?

That he presumes his blood values are clean enough to get passed Garmin's strict controls/scrutiny?

That Garmin's controls and scrutiny aren't that strict/are just PR?

That AC (or his manager) were trying to force the hand of a reluctant Caisse?

All of the above?

 

[BigBoat]

I dont believe they control their riders...I think they might just systematically blood dope the riders themselves and if the internal testing even exists at all its worked as a cage.

 

[Bakunin]

Contador has pointed out in a couple of interviews in the past that he considers Christian Vande Velde to be a good friend of his. I wonder if this mattered in looking toward Garmin.

Also, I don't think AC has been the same rider since the 2007 Tour. The victories in the Giro and the Vuelta were very different from the "unreal" battle that he had with the Chicken.

Does that mean he is now clean -- of course not. But I do wonder...

 

[rolfrae]

JV needs to replace Wiggins and Millar. From BBC Sport (apologies if this is in another thread already):

British Cycling coach Shane Sutton says he expects four of Great Britain's leading riders to join Team Sky.

The new cycling team will launch next year with the aim of creating a British winner of the Tour de France by 2014.

Sutton revealed that he expects David Millar, Bradley Wiggins, Steve Cummings and Geraint Thomas to form the core of an initial 25-rider roster.

"All these guys are going to move on to the Sky pro road team, maybe I shouldn't have said that!" Sutton said.

Thomas and Cummings currently both ride for Team Barloworld, while Millar and Wiggins are team-mates at Team Garmin-Slipstream.

 

[pumaSA]

I agree that Garmin would lose a lot of credibilty if they signed Contador. He is a great talent, but as the previous posts have alluded to anyone that rode for Saiz has a bag of blood in a doctors fridge somewhere.

Peurto was never fully explained. There was talk of a bag of blood with the initials A/C on it. That seems to have just vanished. Now all of a sudden his TT has improved in leaps and bounds. I believe Wiggins was not too happy when Contador beat him in a flat prologue at Paris Nice.

Makes you think

 

[flyor64]

I believe Wiggins was not too happy when Contador beat him in a flat prologue at Paris Nice.

Makes you think

I think alot of people's jaws dropped when that happened...mine did.

But as far as all the other stuff...I just don't see it as all that conspiritorial (is that a word?). His team was crashing down around him, and it appears JV and Garmin would seriously consider it, to get the elusive big win in '09...

Couldn't it just be something as simple as answering a personal add in the sunday paper's classifieds???

BCIW, 25, seeking new home. Must be smoke free. Have cable, internet access, and help with transpo. Can send pics and CV.

 

[Anonymous]

millar to sky...

one question.. doesnt dave millar own part of the garmin team... what happens there... ?

im also shocked.. i didnt think millar and DB had the best relationship..

as for brad, and then cav when he is out of contract.. those two on the same team again.. might take some mediating..

 

[BroDeal]

JV needs to replace Wiggins and Millar. From BBC Sport (apologies if this is in another thread already):

British Cycling coach Shane Sutton says he expects four of Great Britain's leading riders to join Team Sky.

The new cycling team will launch next year with the aim of creating a British winner of the Tour de France by 2014.

Sutton revealed that he expects David Millar, Bradley Wiggins, Steve Cummings and Geraint Thomas to form the core of an initial 25-rider roster.

"All these guys are going to move on to the Sky pro road team, maybe I shouldn't have said that!" Sutton said.

Thomas and Cummings currently both ride for Team Barloworld, while Millar and Wiggins are team-mates at Team Garmin-Slipstream.

Millar is part owner of Garmin-Slipstream. Will he sell his share? He is in a pretty nice situation where he is now. Why move unless he will get paid a lot more money?

EDIT: I just found a denial of the original report. It seems that it was a misunderstanding. Wiggins is under contract to Slipstream through next season, and Vaughters does not think Millar will leave.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/377962/millar-and-wiggins-to-join-team-sky.html

 

[Rice Daddy]

If AC is suspect, so are...

"Plus BroDeal's right about AC's past with Saiz, etc. Nobody that rode for that guy wasn't super jacked."

Rode for Saiz: Christian Vande Velde, Luis Leon Sanchez, AC, Vino, Kaschekin, Roberto Heras, Johan Bruyneel...

 

[Advancedone]

"Plus BroDeal's right about AC's past with Saiz, etc. Nobody that rode for that guy wasn't super jacked."

Rode for Saiz: Christian Vande Velde, Luis Leon Sanchez, AC, Vino, Kaschekin, Roberto Heras, Johan Bruyneel...

EXACTLY!!!! Quite a list isn't it.

 

[Escarabajo]

Maybe JV just wanted a look at AC's medical date/blood passport info etc to see what he's on. Bear in mind that they walked away from Kohl at that point in the transfer process last year.

Interesting point of view. He might actually learn something from it.(?)