Soudal - Quick Step Thread

[BR2]

Teuns is known to be everything but a teamplayer.

I agree about the Van Wilder/Jorgensen part tho. Those guys have way too much talent to just beings doms for Remco, they need chances for themselves so you need others to do the dirty work for Remco. Problem probably still is budget. You need a really good climber that has been a leader in the past, and thus has tried to get results but can't win anymore and would be happy with being a last man for someone who can actually win. Problem is to make those guys happy being a dom you still need to pay them as a leader.

I don't even know if there's anyone free who fits that role.

EDIT:
Sivakov? Probably still wants his own chances, I wouldn't be surprised if some French team overpays him.
Hugh Carthy? He's always really good in a 3rd week out of nowhere.
Michael Storer? Not that great at FDJ, but did a really good job at the Tour for Gaudu last year.
Geoffrey Bouchard could maybe be decent? but not as last man ofcourse.
Leknessund would be good in a train I think?

What about Lafay?

 

[Samamba]

What about Lafay?

Puncher, not a climber.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Teuns is known to be everything but a teamplayer.

I agree about the Van Wilder/Jorgensen part tho. Those guys have way too much talent to just beings doms for Remco, they need chances for themselves so you need others to do the dirty work for Remco. Problem probably still is budget. You need a really good climber that has been a leader in the past, and thus has tried to get results but can't win anymore and would be happy with being a last man for someone who can actually win. Problem is to make those guys happy being a dom you still need to pay them as a leader.

I don't even know if there's anyone free who fits that role.

EDIT:
Sivakov? Probably still wants his own chances, I wouldn't be surprised if some French team overpays him.
Hugh Carthy? He's always really good in a 3rd week out of nowhere.
Michael Storer? Not that great at FDJ, but did a really good job at the Tour for Gaudu last year.
Geoffrey Bouchard could maybe be decent? but not as last man ofcourse.
Leknessund would be good in a train I think?

Patrick Konrad, Jan Polanc, George Bennet, Jonathan Castrovejo, Merwahi Kudus,

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Patrick Konrad, Jan Polanc, George Bennet, Jonathan Castrovejo, Merwahi Kudus,

And Sergio Buitrago (although his name is obviously Santiago).

 

[BR2]

Patrick Konrad, Jan Polanc, George Bennet, Jonathan Castrovejo, Merwahi Kudus,

wow, you are actually able to make very good posts if you want to

 

[rghysens]

Devenyns will go if Alaphilippe goes with mutual consent.
I would not keep Jakobsen and thin out some of the sprinter's lead out riders, but I would keep Morkov.

Apparently Devenyns already said it would be his last year.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Teuns is known to be everything but a teamplayer.

I didn't know that, and i'm a bit surprised, because i've never seen him do a Soler for instance and he doesn't seem like a bad guy. Maybe not the most clever though. And even a guy like Masnada is constantly MIA when he has to work for the team. Either his legs are ***, or he goes in the attack against instructions.

Sivakov? Probably still wants his own chances, I wouldn't be surprised if some French team overpays him.
Hugh Carthy? He's always really good in a 3rd week out of nowhere.
Michael Storer? Not that great at FDJ, but did a really good job at the Tour for Gaudu last year.
Geoffrey Bouchard could maybe be decent? but not as last man ofcourse.
Leknessund would be good in a train I think?

Yeah, i've already mentioned Sivakov somewhere. Can't imagine him being cheap though, he's also still reasonably young.
Leknessund in theory, but i've yet to see him shine in the mountains like he was expected in his junior and u23 years.
Carthy doesn't strike me as the guy who would want to work for a GC leader, but i don't really know him, just an impression.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

a guy like Masnada is constantly MIA when he has to work for the team. Either his legs are ***, or he goes in the attack against instructions.

What are you talking about, he is very popular within the bunch and within wolfpack, always working like a lion for his leader.

He had Mononuclosis since his lombardia 2021 (where he worked in the front for Alaphilippe and Evenpoel before being stronger than both of them) , so it's unfair to expect him to be as strong as prime Ritchie porte since them, but he's getting better. He literally work all the day and his attacks are useful for the team.

He's much better at getting into the attacks than Verveack, Cattaneo or the other guys. I don't know where this MIA comment comes from, i think you are bias against Masnada.

wow, you are actually able to make very good posts if you want to

Thank you, I just share my thoughts. Hopefully they become more popular with time.

 

[tobydawq]

What are you talking about, he is very popular within the bunch and within wolfpack, always working like a lion for his leader.

He had Mononuclosis since his lombardia 2021 (where he worked in the front for Alaphilippe and Evenpoel before being stronger than both of them) , so it's unfair to expect him to be as strong as prime Ritchie porte since them, but he's getting better. He literally work all the day and his attacks are useful for the team.

He's much better at getting into the attacks than Verveack, Cattaneo or the other guys. I don't know where this MIA comment comes from, i think you are bias against Masnada.

It's so hilariously hypocritical how defensive you get when somebody criticises Masnada considering how disrespectful you yourself are against other riders.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

What are you talking about, he is very popular within the bunch and within wolfpack, always working like a lion for his leader.

I'm talking about riding 50 meters behind Almeida. I'm talking about going in the attack in the Vuelta when orders from the teambus were NOT to attack because it was an important day for GC. There is a scene in the Wolfpack docu where they say on camera during the teammeeting that everybody should stay together. Next scene, Masnada is in the break and Van Bondt and Bramati in the car nearly blow a gasket.

 

[tobydawq]

I'm talking about riding 50 meters behind Almeida. I'm talking about going in the attack in the Vuelta when orders from the teambus were NOT to attack because it was an important day for GC. There is a scene in the Wolfpack docu where they say on camera during the teammeating that everybody should stay together. Next scene, Masnada is in the break and Van Bondt and Bramati in the car nearly blow a gasket.

Good to shed some light on Italian Soler.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

I'm talking about riding 50 meters behind Almeida. I'm talking about going in the attack in the Vuelta when orders from the teambus were NOT to attack because it was an important day for GC. There is a scene in the Wolfpack docu where they say on camera during the teammeeting that everybody should stay together. Next scene, Masnada is in the break and Van Bondt and Bramati in the car nearly blow a gasket.

Ohhh, I forgot all about that and didn't get an alert about a UK release on Amazon Prime. Will start watching after work.
Had a sneak preview and it's in English though I wish they had dubbed Rob Hatch in Dutch.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Konrad would actually be a natural fit, since he already rode on their developmental team back in the day. He didn't live up to his u23 results, but I was surprised that he ddidn't turn pro with them after getting a gc podium in the Tour de l'Avenir

 

[Sciatic]

I didn't know that, and i'm a bit surprised, because i've never seen him do a Soler for instance and he doesn't seem like a bad guy. Maybe not the most clever though. And even a guy like Masnada is constantly MIA when he has to work for the team. Either his legs are ***, or he goes in the attack against instructions.


Yeah, i've already mentioned Sivakov somewhere. Can't imagine him being cheap though, he's also still reasonably young.
Leknessund in theory, but i've yet to see him shine in the mountains like he was expected in his junior and u23 years.
Carthy doesn't strike me as the guy who would want to work for a GC leader, but i don't really know him, just an impression.

I think there are probably several levels of NOT being a team player:
There is Soler/Gadret level (the true pinnacle)
Then the levels below that

 

[Mayomaniac]

I'm talking about riding 50 meters behind Almeida. I'm talking about going in the attack in the Vuelta when orders from the teambus were NOT to attack because it was an important day for GC. There is a scene in the Wolfpack docu where they say on camera during the teammeeting that everybody should stay together. Next scene, Masnada is in the break and Van Bondt and Bramati in the car nearly blow a gasket.

Masnada comes off as a bit irrational and impulsive, when he feels like attacking he attacks.
That said, from his interviews I actually get the impression that he likes Remco, respects him and has no problem riding for him. It's just that he's a bit of an enigma when it comes to tactics.
If Cattaneo still had his 2021 legs he'd be the guy you have ride tempo on the earlier climbs/first part of a big climb. Last year was also a bit weird for him. Usually he's also climbing well when he has good TT results, but 2022 Cattaneo never had the climbing legs to back up his TT results.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

It would depend on where he would fit. They need to make sure to start giving Van Wilder more options at least in 1 week races, and both him and Jorgenson would target the same kind of races. There are already Vansevenant and Schmid who take some of those spots but are not bigger talents. They need more people to help Evenepoel without blocking the talent they already have. In that sense a transfer like the one of Vervaeke last year or Cattaneo before makes a lot more sense. A guy who has come to terms with his own limitations, who is willing to go all in as a domestique. Getting Jorgenson just for top 10 spots in a few classics seems like wasted money as well as wasted talent.

i think its possible to combine them helping Remco and still giving them some chances. They don’t need to ride every race with him.

If Remco is aiming for the Tour next year it will make sense is his schedule is something like Paris-Nice, Itulzia, Ardennes, Dauphine and the Tour.

If you have Van Wilder with him for Itulzia, Ardennes and the Tour then Van Wilder can try his own luck in Romandie and Tour de Swiss for example.

Then Jorgenson can go to UAE as leader, help Remco in Paris-Nice and then be a part of the classic team for the cobble races and join up with Remco again for Dauphine and the Tour.

One of them could maybe be interested in trying lead the Vuelta or some other races where Remco ain’t going. There is a lot of options.

Schmid and Vansevant are also riders that should be able to get a lot of chances even if they need to help Remco in the Ardennes and the Tour. With races I’ve mentioned above, there are still world tour races like Australia, Catalunya and Pologne where they could get to shine, plus plenty of 1.Pro races that could be good options for them. It’s not really a problem do give 4-5 riders like Van Wilder, Jorgenson, Vansevant and Schild enough chances when there is only 1 star rider like Remco and not 2 like Jumbo have in Jonas and Roglic.

 

[greyclouds]

I think it might be better to first look what you really need as additions and whom you can get, and then decide who you need to let go for that.
I also think Devenyns and Morkov are just too old now to hang on to, they are the only ones I'd be sure about, the others I would look at later and in the context of their price.
It will be very interesting to see the Giro and what the team can achieve there - if Evenepoel dominates the Giro it makes sense to risk it and put all eggs into that basket and get him the best doms you can lay your hands on. If he doesn't and is "only" on Roglic's level or worse I would be very careful to do that. In that case the team needs a plan for what it wants to be in the future and then decide who they need for that.

For next year QS is in a lot better shape on their GC side, compared to the classics team. If they keep the basic GC core group they have at the moment around Remco (IVW, Hirt, Cattaneo, Vervaeke, Masnada) that’s already not a decent start. I would then look out for one or two riders that could support Remco in a GT, but also have their own schedule: Barguil? Oomen? Buitrago? Storer? Dani Martinez?? Abner Gonzalez could also be a good young pure climber addition. For the classics they QS could almost rip it all apart and start from scratch. Out of contract for next year there is: Cosnefroy, Coquard, Cort, Hirschi, Politt, and I would keep an eye for Goosens, Van den Berg, Ben Healy, Schelling.

 

[repre]

Cattaneo will need to pass his exam at the Giro. Van Tricht is a Young Belgian rider who i have no clear view on regarding his potential and progression, which might be telling by itself. I'm not seeing the added value but i could be wrong. Knox, even in top shape, which we haven't seen in 3 years, would barely classify as a mountain dom. Devenyns has been quite useless overall other than keep Alaphilippe company for a while. Morkov's time seems up as well.

I've been disappointed with Bagioli and Steimle, feel they haven't lived up to their potential. If they had, i would have definitely tried to keep them.

Van Wilder, unsurprisingly already has offers from other teams, but would like to stay, even in his current role for a bit longer as long as he gets some bigger opportunities for himself.

Vernon and Cerny are riders that could always be useful in smaller races but less so in big WT races.

Not sure about Senechal and Jakobsen. I feel they are part of the team, but they have also been disappointing lately.

In other words, the only people in QS you like are Remco and van Wilder. Surprising...

 

[Ilmaestro99]

It's so hilariously hypocritical how defensive you get when somebody criticises Masnada considering how disrespectful you yourself are against other riders.

It might be funny , fair enough, hbut I don't understand how it's hypocritical. People are free to criticise Fausto here and I am free to defend him, it's a discussion. Just as when I occasionally criticise other rider, people are free to defend them. It's how forum work. I don't know when I have been disrespectful thoug ?

I'm talking about riding 50 meters behind Almeida. I'm talking about going in the attack in the Vuelta when orders from the teambus were NOT to attack because it was an important day for GC. There is a scene in the Wolfpack docu where they say on camera during the teammeeting that everybody should stay together. Next scene, Masnada is in the break and Van Bondt and Bramati in the car nearly blow a gasket.

He rode 50 metres behind almida for like 10 minutes on 1 stage of 1 Giro.

Mate you can't claim a Netflix style documentary, which aims to over- dramatise everything, as evidence for Fausto being a bad teammate in general. They edit all kinds of things in a certain way. Fausto has excellence relationship with the team and with remco they are good friends. But he is not the kind of rider that want to be chained to the peloton for a whole season. Freedom is fundamental for the contentment of the human soul.

Good to shed some light on Italian Soler.

That's kind of a complement .

Masnada comes off as a bit irrational and impulsive, when he feels like attacking he attacks.
That said, from his interviews I actually get the impression that he likes Remco, respects him and has no problem riding for him. It's just that he's a bit of an enigma when it comes to tactics.

That's a bit more fair analysis. But Nibali is also impulsive, contador also, even remco. And they are fan favourites. Just as fausto should be

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

In other words, the only people in QS you like are Remco and van Wilder. Surprising...

Hope this helps: https://www.wikihow.com/Teach-Yourself-to-Read

 

[repre]

Hope this helps: https://www.wikihow.com/Teach-Yourself-to-Read

Logic is not your friend after all))

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Logic is not your friend after all))

Sure it is, i'm seeing someone who has trouble reading, so i try to help. For you to come to that conclusion based on my post, the only logical explanation is that you have trouble reading.

 

[Samamba]

If Merlier doesn't crash on Berg ten Houte we would've gotten a bunch sprint today. Atleast they got a top 10 with Ballerini today.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

61 ASGREEN Kasper
62 BALLERINI Davide
63 DECLERCQ Tim
64 LAMPAERT Yves
65 MERLIER Tim
66 SÉNÉCHAL Florian
67 VAN LERBERGHE Bert

What do you think about their Roubaix team?

No Steimle this time. So Steimle didn‘t ride MSR, didn‘t ride RVV and won‘t ride Roubaix this year.

Last race of their 2023 Flandrian race/cobblestone campaign. From next week on, they have Brabantse Piil, Amstel, FW and LBL to save their spring classics season.

The focus and the money gets to the Remco TdF winning ambitions. So their traditional team for the Classics from Het Nieuwsblad until Roubaix suffers. I think they somehow seem to have accepted this.

After all, Remco winning TdF GC would be bigger than just another RVV or Roubaix victory.

 

[Akuryo]

Another absolutely disastrous day for them. Sure, bad luck in the crashes but their cobbled riders have not delivered all spring. And I don't see how they can get one of the current top 5 favorites for these races anyway. So unless they stumble on to another Tom Boonen somewhere in the u23 ranks it doesn't look too good for the foreseeable future. Might as well save some money and put it into the aspirations of Evenepoel and get him better support instead of acquiring 3rd string cobble riders. Let's face it, Asgreen and Lampaert will rarely challenge for victory against the current opponents.

But then again, we're talking about Quickstep here. A team that for the longest time was classics only. So this upcoming transfer season is gonna be very telling. Will they accept that for now the (top) results in those races might not be achievable? Or will they try to somehow force a semi competitive team that can get top 10 finishes in these races if everything goes to plan?

In my opinion a generational talent like Evenepoel doesn't come along all that often, so he should be their absolute priority. If you can't fight for the win anymore in the cobbled races, put your efforts in those areas where you have actual chances! But that's easy to say as an outsider that a Belgian team build on their historic classics achievements should just abandon their efforts for those races...

I just can't see how you financially justify putting a good chunk of your resources into races where you are highly unlikely to succeed. What's the point, other than "history"? At the same time it would almost be malpractice to not do everything you can to help your current best rider.