• The Cycling News forum is still looking to add volunteer moderators with. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Sour grapes from Vaughters?

Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar
F

Ferminal

Jul 3, 2009
18,948
5
22,485
It's not really sour grapes, just smart business... he was leaving soon for one of their competitors. If Garmin feel they can find a replacement for 2011 and have a good reason to dismiss him, they might as well clean (pun not intended, but it seems to fit well) him out now than post-season.

As long as they have someone equal to replace him I think it's a good move.
 
Tuarts

Tuarts

May 25, 2010
3,371
0
0
If Matt Whie was as smart off the road he wouldn't have made this (his move to GreenEdge) public at the start of the season....

This is more to do with that then clinic related tripe...
 
M Sport

M Sport

Jul 27, 2009
749
0
0
Spider1964 said:
In view of Matt Whites appointment at GreenEdge Cycling
Click to expand...

When did that happen? I thought he took a part time position with Cycling Australia.
 
jens_attacks

jens_attacks

Sep 8, 2009
15,306
3
22,485
what a joke.vaughters always knew and he approved it,it's a necessity in professional sports.and now that white will go at greenedge,he says "matt you are a bad guy.we are the clean team remember?we don't need you!"
seriously it's just a bad joke.
 
M

msjett

Mar 18, 2009
981
0
0
What I find interesting was this visit to the bad man occured in 2009 - And didn't come to light until contract wrangling happened in late 2010....It doesn't add up, if it was against policy and a sackable offence why didn't White get sacked in 2010? That's the part I don't understand. Maybe I read it wrong!:confused:
 
B

brianf7

Aug 4, 2009
1,056
1
0
msjett said:
What I find interesting was this visit to the bad man occured in 2009 - And didn't come to light until contract wrangling happened in late 2010....It doesn't add up, if it was against policy and a sackable offence why didn't White get sacked in 2010? That's the part I don't understand. Maybe I read it wrong!:confused:
Click to expand...

Agree its just sour grapes nothing more. Will Matt White will be in a better position to poach garmin the riders now . maybe.
 
B

Bailey

Jul 5, 2009
143
0
0
Tuarts said:
If Matt Whie was as smart off the road he wouldn't have made this (his move to GreenEdge) public at the start of the season....

This is more to do with that then clinic related tripe...
Click to expand...

Correct.

It's a blatant and ad-hoc response to White being open about his intentions for next year.

If the 2009 offence cited was the genuine reason for an instant dismissal, it's two years late. These are the same fools who squeal about slow decisions by the sport's governing bodies!

The petty nature of the dismissal is as dubious as it is extreme.
 
B

Bailey

Jul 5, 2009
143
0
0
BroDeal said:
When your DS is sending your riders to notorious dope doctors, what are you going to do? Sounds like he'll fit in well with Bannan at GreenEDGE.
Click to expand...

Sack him at the time of the offence?
 
B

Bailey

Jul 5, 2009
143
0
0
brianf7 said:
Agree its just sour grapes nothing more. Will Matt White will be in a better position to poach garmin the riders now . maybe.
Click to expand...

He can do his worst now.

I disagree with Ferminal, above, that this is smart business. It's actually hysterical and angry over reaction. A wise business person knows only too well to keep your friends close and your enemies closer. White now has nothing formal by way of contract or even friendship (at least) to hold him back from speaking with certain individuals about next year. He's a free agent.

He now has a GreenLight to privately help recruit for GreenEdge! :rolleyes:
 
F

Ferminal

Jul 3, 2009
18,948
5
22,485
Bailey said:
He can do his worst now.

I disagree with Ferminal, above, that this is smart business. It's actually hysterical and angry over reaction. White now has nothing formal (at least) to hold him back from speaking with certain individuals about next year. He's a free agent.

He now has a GreenLight to privately help recruit for GreenEdge! :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

As opposed to being able to undermine Garmin from within? White signs for Green Edge, Green Edge rumoured to be in negotiations with Garmin's bright prospects. White working with those said prospects... White no longer working with said prospects. Of course that's assuming Bobridge and Meyer haven't already signed for Green Edge.

If White (or his future employers) wanted him out of Garmin I'm sure they could have come to a mutual agreement.

Plus his name has now been tarnished.

I see it as Garmin 1 Green Edge 0

Perhaps it will be Garmin v GE next season instead of Garmin v Sky
 
Spider1964

Spider1964

Jul 8, 2009
501
0
0
The 2009 part was the interesting part to me... if JV is as anti-doping as he claims to be and continues to put his team up for all to see as the "clean team", why has it taken 2 years for him to find out that one of his riders has visited this evil doctor?

He may regret crossing one Matt White... Street fighter v Colonel Mustard... Street Fighter wins every time.
 
jens_attacks

jens_attacks

Sep 8, 2009
15,306
3
22,485
Spider1964 said:
The 2009 part was the interesting part to me... if JV is as anti-doping as he claims to be and continues to put his team up for all to see as the "clean team", why has it taken 2 years for him to find out that one of his riders has visited this evil doctor?
Click to expand...

can't believe there still are people who think that vaughters says the truth,it's just good PR, guys...for fucc's sake,garmin is one of the best teams in professional cycling;)
 
M

msjett

Mar 18, 2009
981
0
0
BroDeal said:
To potential recruits he can offer a big carrot: A free vacation to the island of Dr. Moral.
Click to expand...

That makes me conjur up a mental picture of a remote island with lots of rainforest and a skull shaped mountain.:D
 
B

Bailey

Jul 5, 2009
143
0
0
Ferminal said:
As opposed to being able to undermine Garmin from within?
Click to expand...

With White kept close, and under contract, Garmin can much easier collect evidence to expose any bona fide contractual breach as it happens.

With White sacked, and probably quite ****ed off, he is now completely outside of any contractual obligation to not do what you say (but what Garmin have now explicitly NOT said) he was doing.

He was expressly dismissed for something else that happened long ago. So now any evidence Vaughters has had up to this point that White was two-timing him is now as useless as the grounds for dismissal he has cited. Had he kept him close, any evidence collected might have combined with further misconduct to provide a nice brief against him and any losses incurred next year as a result of losing contracted riders.

Like i said, keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
 
The Hitch

The Hitch

Jun 14, 2010
34,930
60
22,580
Damn. When i saw this thread i hadnt seen the TDU last stage but thought it reffered to the Garmins Meyer getting screwed out of the TDU on the last stage, hence sour grapes for JV and popped off to watch the stage.

Unfortunately it just cost me 7 minutes of my life.
 
F

Ferminal

Jul 3, 2009
18,948
5
22,485
Bailey said:
With White sacked, and probably quite ****ed off, he is now completely outside of any contractual obligation to not do what you say (but what Garmin have now explicitly NOT said) he was doing.
Click to expand...

He's probably closer to breaching the UCI regulations now, as opposed to when he was their DS.
 
B

Bailey

Jul 5, 2009
143
0
0
The thing i love most about this is how Gerard Vroomen nods along like Vaughter's good little lap poodle, showing just how much he fits in at Garmin. :D

This is the guy who so arrogantly and disrespectfully presumed to turn his ProTour licence into his own personal testing ticket, in complete disregard for actually winning much or creating a successful and workable TEAM.

As an associate of a team's management, he makes for a good bike frame engineer. :rolleyes:
 
B

Bailey

Jul 5, 2009
143
0
0
Ferminal said:
He's probably closer to breaching the UCI regulations now, as opposed to when he was their DS.
Click to expand...

By not being bound by any contract whatsoever?

I respectfully disagree.

But let's say you are correct. How does anyone go about proving it now? Who at Garmin will observe anything he does? Any strange comments he makes? Any discussion he has with its riders? Any unexplained, evidenced, absences?

Garmin got too moist over this decision, i tells ya! It screams of amateurish over-reaction.
 
F

Ferminal

Jul 3, 2009
18,948
5
22,485
Bailey said:
By not being bound by any contract whatsoever?

I respectfully disagree.
Click to expand...

He has a contract... starting at the end of this season.

He can't just poach riders whilst "not in contract" but on "behalf of Green Edge", or facilitate such poaching. Of course no one really follows these regulations anyway, it's just the JV specifically raised it last week.

In terms of "personal influence" which may not be illegal, I don't see how not being one's DS would put him in a better position.

I'm strictly talking about Garmin's riders.

Think of it outside of cycling. If a senior employee was leaving you for a rival, would you want them to see it through to the end, or get rid of them earlier (provided you can replace their abilities). If they stay with you they get months of gathering information and will be at their best for their new employer.
 
B

Bailey

Jul 5, 2009
143
0
0
Depends on the business but i'd keep him close, take down notes, collect some evidence, watch what they do, record what they say, hire a lawyer, listen to conversations, ask some questions, make sure nothing fishy was going on.

Then, if there was a strong case, i'd put everything together in a brief for a lawyer to take a look at any damage or losses resulting from recorded ****ty conduct, and then tell the employee they're no longer required.

Above all, i'd be honest and genuine about any grounds for dismissal that i pull the trigger on. That way i can meet any charge that i'm just as dishonest as the employee i dismissed with evidence to the contrary.

Two years delay just makes Vaughters look as indecisive, dubious and dishonest as the UCI is. Set an example when the offence occurs if you are so righteous, like Vaughters and Vroomen claim they are.
 
B

Bailey

Jul 5, 2009
143
0
0
In fairness to Garmin, the report says they only found out in late 2010.

Of course, that in itself seems dubious if the team keeps records on where its riders are located at all times of the year. But giving it the benefit of the doubt, then a delay of few weeks to one month would be a reasonable delay to make such a drastic decision.

We must take Garmin for its word that the stuff Vaughters complained about last week had nothing whatsoever to do with White's dismissal.

I'm Santa Claus posting on behalf of the Tooth Fairy. :rolleyes:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts

Moderators online

Share this page

COMPANY
RESOURCES
FOLLOW
Top Bottom