Speech by Greg Lemond

[LugHugger]

I'm no big fan of Armstrong, but nor am I any fan of Lemond. He has become increasingly bitter and fatter since Armstrong eclipsed his Tour record for wins by an American. Yes, Greg, there are people out there who still admire you, even if you "only" won the Tour 3 times. Please shut up now and enjoy your retirement.

Lance, the Badger and Greg have all grown fatter since they retired. Surely we can allow them to chug a beer or two after their years of abstinence?????!!!!!

 

[tifosa]

Great talk by Lemond, however, all his truth telling (not the "truthiness" spin crap-o-la from most pros) is still seen by many as whining. Pity, because he is one of the few connected to the sport that speaks truth to power. Given a cage fight between Lemond and Armstrong, I'd go with Lemond. He would slice Armstrong with his words, chew him up, and spit him out - hell, I'd watch that match!

it was very good of him to stress that he doesn't blame the riders and feels that it is the doctors and managers that should be punished strongly for what they are doing to these riders.

This part bothers me: another take on the 'blame the pushers, not the addicts' from the war on drugs' debacle. It's simple supply and demand. When the demand dries up, the pushers find new work. However, when the pushers are imprisoned, they're always a new dealer or new drug source to take their place. When the **** will people assume some personal responsibility for their actions?

 

[rhubroma]

I think that it would be wrong to lay the blame for doping in cycling squarely at the feet of Lance. My perception is that the majority of the top 20-30 riders are doping at whatever level.

Naturally Lance is not to blame for doping in cycling, as it has exsisted prior to Lance. But Armstrong is to blame for being the greatest sporting fraud of the century. Because he won the Tour 7 times on blood doping and he has such a public image, and also because he is exploiting the cancer community as a platform for a future in public life, whether political or otherwise. He's also a nasty and ruthless SOB, who will crush any oposition that his money and power will allow him to do, as with Simeoni and his various law suits. It's intollarable that he has gotten away with murder, and even has the gall to flaunt his fame which is based on lies. That's the truth. Lies. Whereas it is shameful that there are millions of people, or rather uncritically thinking sheep or else with an intelligence deficit, who sustain the liar and a fraud. It's just sickening and explains why we as a society have stooped to such a base level from which it will take a miracle to climb up to a more respectable state (metaphor unintended of course) and why we elect the polititians we do and have the corporations we have controlling our lives which are ruining everything, literally everything, above all the environment. And if things keep going the way they are now, we're liable to get Armstrong as the US President. How pathetic! And all because there is a flock of sheep with stupid yellow bands around their wrists supporting a man who has gotten away with murder and who are thus dragging society down to a state of indecent and obscence vulgarity. The sheer folly of it is enough to make the rest of us with critical heads on our shoulders, and not empty ones, want to vomit. Because all we can do is slide down with the rest of the flock which can't stomach reality, nor has the will to fight the corporate take over of our lives as is plain to see for anybody who wants to. But I digress...

 

[Indurain]

What I would love to see is Greg Lemond, Andy Hampsten and Kohl all joining up and continuing to speak truth and fight against the doping problems. "In the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses shall every word be established". Perhaps even write a book.

Who could deny the truth then. I admire all 3 of these past riders for their courage in speaking out. At least Kohl isn't returning to the sport and doping again, unlike 1/2 the others. He knows he would end up like David Millar only a shadow of his former doped up self. That's a true return without dope.

 

[titan_90]

Thanks for the link, LeMond always has something interesting to say. I'll watch it later when I have time.

 

[euphrades]

Why are we all so certain that Lemond was clean as well. Are we to believe you are a doper to win 7 tours but not 3?

I think this is more spin, just a different way. Armstrong has built his "legend" is this just Lemond's version?

LOL, I am not even sure making a comment is worth it.

Lemond's legacy is more than just winning the Tour three times.....he rode against real legends of cycling; Kelly, Hinault, Delgado, Fignon, Roche, and etc and won.

Lemond is against doping, plain and simple; not proving his legacy. He uses his legacy to prove a point and ff you have read the threads here you would have seen that doping changed significantly in the 90s as systematic medical plans were developed for enchancing your blood. During his era riders used the Giro as a warm up for the Tour.....look at this Giro and the videos of Lance and Levi and you will see they were talking how fast the stages were from the beginning.

 

[schadenfreude]

Naturally Lance is not to blame for doping in cycling, as it has exsisted prior to Lance. But Armstrong is to blame for being the greatest sporting fraud of the century. Because he won the Tour 7 times on blood doping and he has such a public image, and also because he is exploiting the cancer community as a platform for a future in public life, whether political or otherwise. He's also a nasty and ruthless SOB, who will crush any oposition that his money and power will allow him to do, as with Simeoni and his various law suits. It's intollarable that he has gotten away with murder, and even has the gall to flaunt his fame which is based on lies. That's the truth. Lies. Whereas it is shameful that there are millions of people, or rather uncritically thinking sheep or else with an intelligence deficit, who sustain the liar and a fraud. It's just sickening and explains why we as a society have stooped to such a base level from which it will take a miracle to climb up to a more respectable state (metaphor unintended of course) and why we elect the polititians we do and have the corporations we have controlling our lives which are ruining everything, literally everything, above all the environment. And if things keep going the way they are now, we're liable to get Armstrong as the US President. How pathetic! And all because there is a flock of sheep with stupid yellow bands around their wrists supporting a man who has gotten away with murder and who are thus dragging society down to a state of indecent and obscence vulgarity. The sheer folly of it is enough to make the rest of us with critical heads on our shoulders, and not empty ones, want to vomit. Because all we can do is slide down with the rest of the flock which can't stomach reality, nor has the will to fight the corporate take over of our lives as is plain to see for anybody who wants to. But I digress...

 

[Tapeworm]

LOL, I am not even sure making a comment is worth it.

Lemond's legacy is more than just winning the Tour three times.....he rode against real legends of cycling; Kelly, Hinault, Delgado, Fignon, Roche, and etc and won.

Lemond is against doping, plain and simple; not proving his legacy. He uses his legacy to prove a point and ff you have read the threads here you would have seen that doping changed significantly in the 90s as systematic medical plans were developed for enchancing your blood. During his era riders used the Giro as a warm up for the Tour.....look at this Giro and the videos of Lance and Levi and you will see they were talking how fast the stages were from the beginning.

Ah, so no-one ever used PEDs or the like before the 90s eh? Lemond rode against the "greats" so he never doped himself? How many cheats have always voiced that they are against doping...until they are caught? Like I said, clean for 3, doper for 7? Cmon....

 

[LugHugger]

Naturally Lance is not to blame for doping in cycling, as it has exsisted prior to Lance. But Armstrong is to blame for being the greatest sporting fraud of the century. Because he won the Tour 7 times on blood doping and he has such a public image, and also because he is exploiting the cancer community as a platform for a future in public life, whether political or otherwise. He's also a nasty and ruthless SOB, who will crush any oposition that his money and power will allow him to do, as with Simeoni and his various law suits. It's intollarable that he has gotten away with murder, and even has the gall to flaunt his fame which is based on lies. That's the truth. Lies. Whereas it is shameful that there are millions of people, or rather uncritically thinking sheep or else with an intelligence deficit, who sustain the liar and a fraud. It's just sickening and explains why we as a society have stooped to such a base level from which it will take a miracle to climb up to a more respectable state (metaphor unintended of course) and why we elect the polititians we do and have the corporations we have controlling our lives which are ruining everything, literally everything, above all the environment. And if things keep going the way they are now, we're liable to get Armstrong as the US President. How pathetic! And all because there is a flock of sheep with stupid yellow bands around their wrists supporting a man who has gotten away with murder and who are thus dragging society down to a state of indecent and obscence vulgarity. The sheer folly of it is enough to make the rest of us with critical heads on our shoulders, and not empty ones, want to vomit. Because all we can do is slide down with the rest of the flock which can't stomach reality, nor has the will to fight the corporate take over of our lives as is plain to see for anybody who wants to. But I digress...

+100%

You and I have our differences of opinion (Puritanical? Me?) but seem to share an equal disgust of this sham of a human being.

 

[rapistwit]

LOL, I am not even sure making a comment is worth it.

Lemond's legacy is more than just winning the Tour three times.....he rode against real legends of cycling; Kelly, Hinault, Delgado, Fignon, Roche, and etc and won.

Lemond is against doping, plain and simple; not proving his legacy. He uses his legacy to prove a point and ff you have read the threads here you would have seen that doping changed significantly in the 90s as systematic medical plans were developed for enchancing your blood. During his era riders used the Giro as a warm up for the Tour.....look at this Giro and the videos of Lance and Levi and you will see they were talking how fast the stages were from the beginning.

You're kidding, right?
Why is it that this thread is dominated by people that look at the pre-1990s through rose colored glasses?
Kelly, Roche, Fignon, and Delgado have all been either caught or accused of doping.
The great Eddy Merckx was caught several times and I believe was booted from the Giro for it.
And as far as Lemond is concerned I think he is just a whiner.
And I doubt he raced clean(as Ive heard).
His companys fail and he blames everyone(including his dad) but himself.
He sues constantly.
I use to be a huge Lemond fan but his attitude sucks.
And this is just another hate Armstrong thread.

 

[Epicycle]

Ah, so no-one ever used PEDs or the like before the 90s eh? Lemond rode against the "greats" so he never doped himself? How many cheats have always voiced that they are against doping...until they are caught? Like I said, clean for 3, doper for 7? Cmon....

It's very simple...three letters actually...E-P-O. The doping game was changed by EPO. Everybody should know that. You must be one of Armstrong's PR flacks.

 

[Not Riding Enough]

Naturally Lance is not to blame for doping in cycling, as it has exsisted prior to Lance. But Armstrong is to blame for being the greatest sporting fraud of the century. Because he won the Tour 7 times on blood doping and he has such a public image, and also because he is exploiting the cancer community as a platform for a future in public life, whether political or otherwise. He's also a nasty and ruthless SOB, who will crush any oposition that his money and power will allow him to do, as with Simeoni and his various law suits. It's intollarable that he has gotten away with murder, and even has the gall to flaunt his fame which is based on lies. That's the truth. Lies. Whereas it is shameful that there are millions of people, or rather uncritically thinking sheep or else with an intelligence deficit, who sustain the liar and a fraud. It's just sickening and explains why we as a society have stooped to such a base level from which it will take a miracle to climb up to a more respectable state (metaphor unintended of course) and why we elect the polititians we do and have the corporations we have controlling our lives which are ruining everything, literally everything, above all the environment. And if things keep going the way they are now, we're liable to get Armstrong as the US President. How pathetic! And all because there is a flock of sheep with stupid yellow bands around their wrists supporting a man who has gotten away with murder and who are thus dragging society down to a state of indecent and obscence vulgarity. The sheer folly of it is enough to make the rest of us with critical heads on our shoulders, and not empty ones, want to vomit. Because all we can do is slide down with the rest of the flock which can't stomach reality, nor has the will to fight the corporate take over of our lives as is plain to see for anybody who wants to. But I digress...

But up are not bitter.

I have to agree about the state of the environment, corporations, politicians and the uncritcally thinking masses but that is for a different forum and is not Lance's fault either. After Simeoni I don't blame you though.

 

[elapid]

Ah, so no-one ever used PEDs or the like before the 90s eh? Lemond rode against the "greats" so he never doped himself? How many cheats have always voiced that they are against doping...until they are caught? Like I said, clean for 3, doper for 7? Cmon....

This has been covered in other threads, but the use of EPO and autologous blood transfusions from the early to mid 90s has transformed proverbial donkeys into race horses. In addition, the drugs, programs and doctors are very expensive and beyond the finances of most professional cyclists. Doping prior to the early 90s definitely existed but did not result in performance enhancement to the same level of EPO and blood transfusions (up to 20%), most likely did not change the order of finishers (unlike EPO etc when you get Kohl finishing 3rd in the TdF and, dare I say it, Armstrong transforming himself into a 7-time TdF winner when his physiology and pedigree would suggest this was impossible), and were readily available to all cyclists and did not require doctors or programs for their administration.

 

[bri47890]

Lemond should stop is whining and that he thinks that lance Armstrong is hurting his bushiness but look into his dealing with trek and how he would get bikes from them and sell them at a discounted price and have other dealers lose their customer is that right

What is his real issue with Lance Armstrong?

 

[Kennf1]

Okay Tapeworm, bri47890,

... raise your hand if you work for Public Strategies, Inc.

 

[elapid]

What is his real issue with Lance Armstrong?

That Armstrong is a doped-up fraud. That Armstrong is a manipulative, control freak. That Armstrong is a vindictive ***. Take your pick.

 

[LugHugger]

Okay Tapeworm, bri47890,

... raise your hand if you work for Public Strategies, Inc.

Apparently Lance is hurting Greg's bushiness....is this what Greg was talking about lawyers who can not spell???

 

[rapistwit]

It's very simple...three letters actually...E-P-O. The doping game was changed by EPO. Everybody should know that. You must be one of Armstrong's PR flacks.

That's it.
So by making that snide last comment I assume you mean Armstrong is the only rider in the Peleton that has used EPO? Or are you just a bitter Armstrong hater?

 

[grimpeur]

rapistwit—how did you decide on your username? Seriously...

 

[TRDean]

Actually...

reading that article in the other post where a outside/impartial person was with LeMond when armstrong called him to crap on him for his comments about the good Doctor it is very clear that Armstrong is a pile of dung! I will admit I have in the past supported him and his cancer awareness...but this behavior is completely rediculous. I would love to have a cage match with the ***...he if I kicked him in his only nut would it hurt as bad? In all seriousness...armstrong will be in jail one day for racketeering. Mark my words.

 

[Epicycle]

That's it.
So by making that snide last comment I assume you mean Armstrong is the only rider in the Peleton that has used EPO? Or are you just a bitter Armstrong hater?

I'm not a rapist twit, I'll tell you that much. Don't hate Armstrong either.

 

[TRDean]

Grimpeur...Believe it or not I think it comes from the movie Dumb and Dummer!! Fits eh?

 

[cyclelicious]

Lemond ain't no angel

Can we set up a fund for this guy? All these law suits are crippling the one person in cycling that shows some integrity...

Since this thread has digressed I'll throw out a bone. Check out the settlement Lemond procured in the Yellowstone Club lawsuit. He's certainly not crippled financially. Don't feel sorry for Lemond. He's equally as nasty as his arch nemesis. He just hides it better.

 

[rapistwit]

rapistwit—how did you decide on your username? Seriously...

It was malaprop in the silly movie "Dumb and Dumber".
Jim Carrey's character Lloyd "Tell her I'm rich, and I got a rapist wit!"


Obviously what he meant to say is rapier wit.

 

[Kennf1]

You're kidding, right?
Why is it that this thread is dominated by people that look at the pre-1990s through rose colored glasses?
Kelly, Roche, Fignon, and Delgado have all been either caught or accused of doping.
The great Eddy Merckx was caught several times and I believe was booted from the Giro for it.
And as far as Lemond is concerned I think he is just a whiner.
And I doubt he raced clean(as Ive heard).
His companys fail and he blames everyone(including his dad) but himself.
He sues constantly.
I use to be a huge Lemond fan but his attitude sucks.
And this is just another hate Armstrong thread.

Lemond was never caught or implicated in doping. The only pro rider to have ever suggested Lemond doped was Armstrong, when he was ****ed about Lemond's comments about Dr. Ferrari.

He sues constantly? The only other suit I recall was related to a real estate deal. Are you thinking of Armstrong perhaps?

An Armstrong hate thread? No, it's a give **** about the future of the sport thread.

What I find truly amazing about this thread is the simple fact that it would not have existed in 2003 or 2004. It would have been 99% pro-Armstrong, anti-Lemond.