Sporting Fraud??

[Polish]

Yeah it's been quite a journey:
Never would put that stuff into body after cancer treatment
No proof
Never been santioned
to finally, they all do it.

Fausto...."I only Dope all the time"
Anquetil...."Bread and Water?"
Merckx...."I eat Dopers"
Hinault....."They cheat as much as the others"
LeMond & Manzano..."Ouch, it hurts to get shot in the Keester, Ouch Ouch"

 

[Digger]

Fausto...."I only Dope all the time"
Anquetil...."Bread and Water?"
Merckx...."I eat Dopers"
Hinault....."They cheat as much as the others"
LeMond & Manzano..."Ouch, it hurts to get shot in the Keester, Ouch Ouch"

i was talking about his fans........

 

[Polish]

i was talking about his fans........

I was too.

Although with some fans it has taken a bit longer to comprehend
and appreciate the rich history of the Tour de France.

Some are still learning.

Some think the Tour will be much much cleaner in the Future.

 

[ergmonkey]

While Polish has done his best to confuse to issue by pretending this is about beating dopers SI has a better overview of some of the potential legal issues

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/michael_mccann/05/25/lance.armstrong/index.html
QUOTE]

Thanks. Solid link. Nice to see an informed analysis from someone who probably doesn't have too much invested emotionally in learning whether Lance or Floyd is telling the truth. (And I freely admit that I do have too much of a personal interest in this to be unbiased in my take on Armstrong)

 

[eleven]

If that's your idea of refutation, FoxNews must be a veritable gold mine of factual information for you.

Moose, you've gone three posts now without a single attempt to make a point. Perhaps you can explain what the problem is.

 

[eleven]

Fausto...."I only Dope all the time"
Anquetil...."Bread and Water?"
Merckx...."I eat Dopers"
Hinault....."They cheat as much as the others"
LeMond & Manzano..."Ouch, it hurts to get shot in the Keester, Ouch Ouch"

I think you forgot Indurain.

 

[sida-mot]

Lance has said that he has won the tours clean. If it can be proven that he didn't then yes he is a fraud. The rest of the top names from that era (probably) was juiced as well but that only makes them frauds too. It does not clear mr. Armstrong.

Now I can agree that mr. Armstrong shouldn't be the only one questioned. This has more to do with the culture than single riders. I think Landis shares that opinion, that his purpose is to clean up the sport and mr. Armstrong got caught in the cross fire since Landis had to write about stuff he actually knew rather than just rumors. For the media it ofc gets better headlines if you trow in mr Armstrong's name every time.

But thats just the way I see it. I've tried to understand your way of reasoning several times Polish and I don't quite get it. Maybe we are just too different.

 

[theswordsman]

Idiocy is a common theme among the Lance fanboys. Expect them to flaunt their stupidity more openly as the noose tightens around their hero.

It's actually an exciting time for them - Lance might need a couch to sleep on once he gets back from an extended vacation.

 

[blackcat]

Fausto...."I only Dope all the time"
Anquetil...."Bread and Water?"
Merckx...."I eat Dopers"
Hinault....."They cheat as much as the others"
LeMond & Manzano..."Ouch, it hurts to get shot in the Keester, Ouch Ouch"

da doperz iz good, dey do good communitiez workx and save animillz like bottle wiff PETA

 

[Maxiton]

C'mon, Sporting Fraud - Really?
Come On.

Lance's Defense Team will have to show the American Prosecutors that
Euro Pro Cycling & the Tour de France are as AUTHENTIC as US Pro Wrestling.

pic by splitzwheel

Get Greg on the stand under oath to discuss what he saw pre-Lance,
maybe get Alberto on the stand to discuss OP and Manolo.
Eddy and Big Mig as Character Witnesses.

And forget the Power Point Defense, Lance should hire F. Lee Bailey, Robert Shapiro, Alan Dershowitz...maybe get DNA Experts Barry Scheck and Peter Neufeld. Dream Team ReUnion 2010. Too bad Johnnie Cochran did lot live long enough to witness the 2005 TdF and "Believe" Podium Speech.

Anyway, Play by Play by Van Susteren, O'Reilly, and Roll.
Awesome.
The TV Ratings would top the TdF Ratings - that is for SURE!

Professional cycling until recently was European and at its heart it still is. What this means is that corruption and cynicism are as much a part of the sport as athleticism and strategy. It's all intertwined and the total package is what makes cycling as it is and has always been.

Postwar Europe has been transformed by the progressive ideas and supposed transparency of the Social Democracy, but pro cycling is one of the areas where it never cast its light. Rather, pro cycling represents the values and ethos of the Christian Democrats and the Church - the old in Old World.

The "crime" of the Americans (subsequent to male ingenue LeMond) - Lance and the older business handlers behind him - is that they understood the character of this game too well and played it on its own terms - especially Armstrong, who came to be not just Le Patron - essentially a tyrant - but Le Patron par excellence; the most dominant and powerful tyrant of all in cycling. Among many fans, this tyranny is supposed to be the province of Europeans - specifically French or Italian - a kind of charming, romantic, and even innocent, Old World minstrel show of sorts. For Americans to do it, on the other hand, is well beyond the pale and truly offensive.

So what you see in the pictures and words posted by Polish, and his point, I think, is that Armstrong is merely one among many, a secular Pope in a long line of them, and different only in that he was more successful at it, and American. None of which bothers Eddy Merckx, by the way, who is supremely entitled to judge, so why should it bother anyone else? Polish is right.

 

[BroDeal]

Well, this thread is another demonstration that the argument is finally over - even Armstrong's supporters don't seek to claim that he didn't dope anymore. Even the BPC guy doesn't claim it any more. What's the latest - he doped but shouldn't go to jail because he didn't defraud his actual competitors because they were doping too. It's over.

+1

There was a marked change in the fanboys' defense from about 2004 to 2008. Now only the truly ignorant or stupid continue to argue that Armstrong did not dope. Anyone who has read cyclingnews a few times a week over a few years and cannot put together the pieces about how prevalent doping is in cycling has some serious critical thinking deficiencies.

 

[easytiger]

+1

There was a marked change in the fanboys' defense from about 2004 to 2008. Now only the truly ignorant or stupid continue to argue that Armstrong did not dope. Anyone who has read cyclingnews a few times a week over a few years and cannot put together the pieces about how prevalent doping is in cycling has some serious critical thinking deficiencies.

I'll put my hand up to being mildly ignorant and a bit stupid, and I am willing to take the bait - suppose you take the unlikely line that the Uniballer did not dope because he says so and he was never found positive, can you win 7 Tours if all of your teammates are doped up to the eyeballs? Or is even that pushing the boundaries of believeability that he wasn't on the juice?

 

[Jonathan]

...suppose you take the unlikely line that the Uniballer did not dope because he says so and he was never found positive...

He was found positive.

 

[rata de sentina]

I've tried to understand your way of reasoning several times Polish and I don't quite get it.

Don´t worry, you are not alone.