Stage 16, San Martín del Rey Aurelio - La Farrapona, Lagos de Somiedo

[ILovecycling]

Yeah yeah, whatever I know you haven't got a single good word to say for Alberto since la Vuelta 2012. Not sure what happened.

Flo I got it!!!...

airstream stole his user profile

 

[Parker]

Just saw highlights. Unless there was some angle I missed that was pathetic wheelsucking from Contador.

Worst victory of his career by far (iirc the other ones he won like a man)

The worst thing was that he didn't ride to impress people on internet forums. Using the tactics that maximised his advantage was clearly the wrong way to go. When he stands on the podium he must be weighed down by the grief of the respect he has lost from some cat 4 chump.

 

[RedFury]

No, that ability is a distant second to being able to do that climb with 6.5w/kg. That's why he's (probably.. what about NIBALI?!?!?!?!!) the best GT rider in the world.

Disagree. As much as cycling is one of the most physically demanding sports in the world, if you don't have both a clear head and a complete awareness of what it is you need to do, you'll end-up racing like a chicken with its head cut-off.

Find me a single multi-GT winner that did it with just his legs? Not even Armstrong at the peak of his chemically enhanced powers.

So yes, it can happen once or twice that sheer power carries you to the end, but you'll find that the opposite is the norm: IOW, the best cyclist combines his physical attributes with a unique cycling IQ. That is the norm and has always been.

To wit: Alberto on today's stage. Rode as unofficial cycling Cannon bylaws suggest, and doing so just about signed-off on yet another GT victory.

Mind and body, you simply can't pay it no mind.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Still wrong. From 1'-08" in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biwjqA20zJQ

Rovny grabs Brambilla by the neck, Brambilla swings, but misses, Rovny then ducks, expecting the shot that never comes, so plants one himself and it all kicks off.

No doubt that Brambilla started it though, by pinching Rovny's butt or whatever.

It clearly looks to me as though Rovny was trying to put his arm around Brambilla to calm him down, then Brambilla swings.

 

[The Hitch]

The worst thing was that he didn't ride to impress people on internet forums. Using the tactics that maximised his advantage was clearly the wrong way to go. When he stands on the podium he must be weighed down by the grief of the respect he has lost from some cat 4 chump.

90% of your activity on this forum is comprised of you randomly wading into discussions to tell posters they aren't important.

Some weird insecurities there.

 

[The Hitch]

Yeah yeah, whatever I know you haven't got a single good word to say for Alberto since la Vuelta 2012. Not sure what happened.

Ok. If that makes you sleep easier at night. Anyone who ever criticizes Alberto Beibador on absolutely anything must hate him. The only possible explanation for why someone doesn't believe everything he ever did was perfect, is because they are die hard h8ers.

If the tables were turned and Froome had done that to Contador, he'd be needing bodyguards for the next decade to protect him from all the crazed Contador homers like yourself and the others on here.

But of course since it was Contador who did that the action suddenly becomes noble.

I sure as **** wasn't attacking Contador during Tirreno when I was leading praises for one of the greatest stages of all time.

But the mind of the ultra fan seems incapable of understanding a world in which not everything is black and white. It gets confused when someone who once praised an athlete for one action criticises the same athlete for a totallly unrelated action. So it creates an alternative reality in which the original praise either never happened, or was part of some betrayal.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Do people actually think it was a good idea for Contador to pull with Froome today?

That's just dumb. Through his prior efforts, Contador earned the right to sit on Froome's wheel. It was the correct strategy. Were the roles reversed, Froome would have been correct to do the same thing.

Contador played his cards perfectly. I realize it irks some people, but it doesn't change that simple fact.

As far as yesterday is concerned, Valverde was stupid not to see the danger that Froome posed and today he paid the price.

 

[cineteq]

As far as yesterday is concerned, Valverde was stupid not to see the danger that Froome posed and today he paid the price.

Yes he did. People justify Valverde saying he was right not pull because he was there to win. Problem is, he never had the tools to win in the first place. Maybe he would've had a chance with Quintana still in the race. Now the reality is he missed the chance to win a stage, and probably will finish 3rd or 4th.

 

[The Hitch]

Do people actually think it was a good idea for Contador to pull with Froome today?

That's just dumb. Through his prior efforts, Contador earned the right to sit on Froome's wheel. It was the correct strategy. Were the roles reversed, Froome would have been correct to do the same thing.

Contador played his cards perfectly. I realize it irks some people, but it doesn't change that simple fact.

As far as yesterday is concerned, Valverde was stupid not to see the danger that Froome posed and today he paid the price.

IMO if you want to win the stage from a 2 man group you work with the person.

Doubly so if you are the leaders jersey who has shown the whole race so far you are way stronger than the second person.

Its hardly a maverick opinion. Its pretty much common practice in cycling that the leaders jersey lets the other person get the stage if they leave them to do all the work. Happens all the time. Often even if they share the work they let them have the stage (Nibali Santa, Contador Rujano)

But if you make them do all the work you give them the stage. You want the stage you share the work.

Afterall Contador himself let Schleck have the win on Tourmalet after he left all the work for Schleck. In that same Tour he was in a situation with Rodriguez where he wanted the stage for himself so he did the work.

 

[the sceptic]

I think Dawg is a bit too close for donating stage wins as he was/is still a threat to win overall. Jrod and Valverde are more predictable as everyone knows what they are capable of, but you never know what Dawg can do.

Thus, its more important to keep the Dawg under control rather than risking blowing himself up. And as long as Dawg was willing to work, it was the smart move to just sit on his wheel imo. Had he stopped riding at any point it would be a different discussion.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

IMO if you want to win the stage from a 2 man group you work with the person.

Doubly so if you are the leaders jersey who has shown the whole race so far you are way stronger than the second person.

Its hardly a maverick opinion. Its pretty much common practice in cycling that the leaders jersey lets the other person get the stage if they leave them to do all the work. Happens all the time. Often even if they share the work they let them have the stage (Nibali Santa, Contador Rujano)

But if you make them do all the work you give them the stage. You want the stage you share the work.

Afterall Contador himself let Schleck have the win on Tourmalet after he left all the work for Schleck. In that same Tour he was in a situation with Rodriguez where he wanted the stage for himself so he did the work.

Ah, so you're mad because Contador took the stage after sitting on Froome's wheel.

Contador was sitting only 31 seconds ahead of Valverde and had been dropped by him previously. So I'm not sure where this "way stronger" stuff is coming from. Contador had no reason to give Froome anything, since he's racing against Froome, Valverde, and Rodriguez. On the Tourmalet stage, Contador was only basically racing against Schleck. It was in Contador's best interest to use Froome as much as possible, then try to distance him along with Valverde and Rodriguez.

It would have been stupid for Contador to gift the stage to Froome, since those were bonus seconds that put Valverde further back as well.

 

[Netbalp]

Hypocrisy lies in doubt standarts. The more part of active forum members adore Contador the more ruthless they are towards Valverde, Rodríguez and Froome. Valverde and Purito rode tens of Grand Tours, have a very big experience behind and shoulders and extract 105% out of what they are physically able now in the race, but they are still called losers, cowards, idiots and so on. If Froome won the grand batalia and took the maglia rojo, we could not possible have recognized a new euphoric definition of wheelsucking but it could entail a slowslide of lines 'no,no,no', 'gosh I hate Froome', 'idiot over heart, class and panache'. In real world fans don't absolutely care the way Contador wins, whether it is deserved or not, whether it is about attack, defense, tactics or just blind luck. What is it all about? Many people prefer mythes they live in over reality which is sometimes disappointing.

Today Alberto Contador is a big winner and there's a rightful reason to talk about inadequacy of Nibali's win in the Tour. However, when he loses to his principal opponents (that's not Valverde and Rodriguez), mythes will be taken away from suitcase to speculate with them, since for too many people illusiveness is always sweeter than reality.

 

[thehook]

IMHO

Berto sitting on Froomes wheel was the exact correct tactic. Froome was gapping Valverde & J Rod. Berto gets a free ride if he can sit on. And the time benefit that comes with it. Or Froome drops him and rockets up the GC and can win the overall possibly.

Now if you think AC should have just given Froome the stage. You are delusional! Froome & Porte's big mouth, pompous comments earned them the poo poo sandwiches they have coming!

All I have to say is "How's the coffee Chris?"

And I cheered like heck. When DeMarchi took the last time bonus. Valverde got what he deserved today. I hope he gets more of it. Sure would be nice if he finishes 4th.

 

[Publicus]

IMO if you want to win the stage from a 2 man group you work with the person.

Doubly so if you are the leaders jersey who has shown the whole race so far you are way stronger than the second person.

Its hardly a maverick opinion. Its pretty much common practice in cycling that the leaders jersey lets the other person get the stage if they leave them to do all the work. Happens all the time. Often even if they share the work they let them have the stage (Nibali Santa, Contador Rujano)

But if you make them do all the work you give them the stage. You want the stage you share the work.

Afterall Contador himself let Schleck have the win on Tourmalet after he left all the work for Schleck. In that same Tour he was in a situation with Rodriguez where he wanted the stage for himself so he did the work.

I think the difference here was that unlike the stage Contador gifted to Rujano, Rujano was working with Contador not trying to drop him (cf, see the Etna stage where he ditched Rujano). Here Froome was trying his best to drop Contador. Check his post-race interview. Read Contador's comments. Seems to me Contador simply waited for Froome to put in one too many accelerations and launched a perfectly timed counter attack. I'm not sure Contador could have played it any better (tactically speaking).

 

[Angliru]

IMHO

Berto sitting on Froomes wheel was the exact correct tactic. Froome was gapping Valverde & J Rod. Berto gets a free ride if he can sit on. And the time benefit that comes with it. Or Froome drops him and rockets up the GC and can win the overall possibly.

Now if you think AC should have just given Froome the stage. You are delusional! Froome & Porte's big mouth, pompous comments earned them the poo poo sandwiches they have coming!

All I have to say is "How's the coffee Chris?"

And I cheered like heck. When DeMarchi took the last time bonus. Valverde got what he deserved today. I hope he gets more of it. Sure would be nice if he finishes 4th.

"Poo poo sandwiches"???!!!!LOL! Where did that come from? I'd forgotten about Froome and Porte's comments and Froome's statements from his book. Yes, karma is a beeyotch!

 

[jaylew]

People *****ing about Wheelsucking.
One thing is wheelsucking when you are in a position where you need to take time on others, or if your name is Leipheimer and you wheelsuck someone like Valverde cause you think you can beat him in a sprint... ANother story is when you are in the lead, they guy you are "wheelsucking" is increasing you lead to your rivals and you know that you will win the race because you got the best acceleration.

Stop bitcing people, Jesus

I'm with you but what else is new? 98% of the b!tching and criticism of wheelsucking around here is complete nonsense and I hate to say it but it really does make you wonder if people have ever actually raced a bike themselves

 

[ILovecycling]

IMO if you want to win the stage from a 2 man group you work with the person.

Doubly so if you are the leaders jersey who has shown the whole race so far you are way stronger than the second person.

Its hardly a maverick opinion. Its pretty much common practice in cycling that the leaders jersey lets the other person get the stage if they leave them to do all the work. Happens all the time. Often even if they share the work they let them have the stage (Nibali Santa, Contador Rujano)

But if you make them do all the work you give them the stage. You want the stage you share the work.

Afterall Contador himself let Schleck have the win on Tourmalet after he left all the work for Schleck. In that same Tour he was in a situation with Rodriguez where he wanted the stage for himself so he did the work.

Contador should never ever donate anythibg to Froome.Even if he is in jaune with Froome pulling whole Bonnete with Quintana (close in gc) behind them. Just read Froome book. He will never have the same relationship as with Schleck.

 

[LaFlorecita]

How was yesterday's win any different than the one at Pais Vasco when he wheelsucked Valverde and then sprinted away?
This is what Contador has been doing all year. See Algarve, see Tirreno, see Catalunya, see Pais Vasco, see Dauphiné. Wait, wait, wait, conserve energy, then use all your power for one attack.
If you want to complain about it now, then you should have complained about it all season.

 

[rhubroma]

These comments about "wheelsucking" are rather stupid.

Froome is a threat to GC, but needed to gain time on Valverde and Rodriquez and, most of all, Contador. By contrast Contador was in the lead and thus was only in a win-win tactical position.

Hence Froome had to take on all the responsibility of the pace. He was, like in Greek tragedy, condemned to assist Contador and his own defeat.

IMO Contador could have gone from 2ks out, but conservatively (and intelligently) waited for 800 meters.

If you want to talk about wheelsucking then it's the stage before, when Valverde and Rodriquez had every reason to work with AC to distance Froome, but raced for the time bonuses instead on Contador's wheel.

 

[Pricey_sky]

IMHO

Berto sitting on Froomes wheel was the exact correct tactic. Froome was gapping Valverde & J Rod. Berto gets a free ride if he can sit on. And the time benefit that comes with it. Or Froome drops him and rockets up the GC and can win the overall possibly.

Now if you think AC should have just given Froome the stage. You are delusional! Froome & Porte's big mouth, pompous comments earned them the poo poo sandwiches they have coming!

All I have to say is "How's the coffee Chris?"

And I cheered like heck. When DeMarchi took the last time bonus. Valverde got what he deserved today. I hope he gets more of it. Sure would be nice if he finishes 4th.

Ok I will try and remain partially serious despite you using the words 'poo poo' (language my 3 year old niece uses )

What was written in the book was obviously blown up to sell copies, from what I've seen this year Froome and Contador have a great respect for each other. Read the tweets when both were forced to abandon the Tour, also you regularly see them chatting away and laughing amongst themselves before a stage or in the rollouts ect.

Agree with the last sentence re Valverde

 

[LaFlorecita]

Ok I will try and remain partially serious despite you using the words 'poo poo' (language my 3 year old niece uses )

What was written in the book was obviously blown up to sell copies, from what I've seen this year Froome and Contador have a great respect for each other. Read the tweets when both were forced to abandon the Tour, also you regularly see them chatting away and laughing amongst themselves before a stage or in the rollouts ect.

Agree with the last sentence re Valverde

I think Michelle wrote the book with Walsh, it seems like Chris had very little to say about it at least

 

[fauniera]

These comments about "wheelsucking" are rather stupid.

Froome is a threat to GC, but needed to gain time on Valverde and Rodriquez and, most of all, Contador. By contrast Contador was in the lead and thus was only in a win-win tactical position.

Hence Froome had to take on all the responsibility of the pace. He was, like in Greek tragedy, condemned to assist Contador and his own defeat.

IMO Contador could have gone from 2ks out, but conservatively (and intelligently) waited for 800 meters.

If you want to talk about wheelsucking then it's the stage before, when Valverde and Rodriquez had every reason to work with AC to distance Froome, but raced for the time bonuses instead on Contador's wheel.

This.

.....

 

[Pricey_sky]

I think Michelle wrote the book with Walsh, it seems like Chris had very little to say about it at least

My thoughts exactly Flo.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I think the difference here was that unlike the stage Contador gifted to Rujano, Rujano was working with Contador not trying to drop him (cf, see the Etna stage where he ditched Rujano). Here Froome was trying his best to drop Contador. Check his post-race interview. Read Contador's comments. Seems to me Contador simply waited for Froome to put in one too many accelerations and launched a perfectly timed counter attack. I'm not sure Contador could have played it any better (tactically speaking).

This. IMO Froomie tried a"sit and spin" attack-thing, then paid a the price, then Contador just rode away. Watch the last 30 seconds before Contador rides away to the finish. You'll see it in there even though they don't stay with one camera long enough for a good view.

 

[mrhender]

This. IMO Froomie tried a"sit and spin" attack-thing, then paid a the price, then Contador just rode away. Watch the last 30 seconds before Contador rides away to the finish. You'll see it in there even though they don't stay with one camera long enough for a good view.

Froome looked over his shoulder and then the moment he looked down, Contador attacked.. It almost seemed like Froome didn't notice before he was two bike-lengths away... Funny thing is, He almost domstratively looked down again, and rode his numbers instead of trying to follow.. He probably knew he couldn't follow so tried to limit his losses...