Stage 20: Saturday May 26th, Caldes/Val di Sole - Passo dello Stelvio 219km

[hrotha]

For those who say the pace of this Giro was low, what about those good riders who underperformed. Gadret, Basso, Scarponi to a lesser extent Dupont. szmyd.

Kreuziger may not be a top gt contender but is someone like him going to lose 30 on a stage if the pace is so low?

What about them?

You can see the pace was low because humongous groups made it over the mountains every day, and because the breakaways (even single guys) kept the gap with the peloton with no problem for dozens upon dozens of kilometers.

So yes, maybe none of those guys were as strong as last year. There are many possible reasons for that, but a fast pace wasn't one.

 

[Parrulo]

Agree with this, aside from a couple attacks from Scarponi (which didn't do anything) they basically just sucked other peoples wheels and rode tempo. Liquigas in my opinion should have sent Nibali instead of Basso, I don't see Basso being a real grand tour contendor anymore. And at least Nibali would have made it a race.

i think nibali would have won this giro if he built his season around it. but to be honest this is the year to focus on the tour without contador and Andy under performing even more then he usually does. he can win the giro next year.

also a shame cunego wasn't in top shape, if he had his last year your form with the way he rode the race i am also going go with hrotha and say he may have been able to pull it off.

 

[cineteq]

Oh? Dropping Cunego & Nieve on the final climb was "tactics"? Actually GAINING time on the favorites on the final climb is "tactics"? (Not talking about what happened in the valley). And he still needs to take nearly two minutes in the ITT if he wants to win. And if he does that, you want to tell me he didn't deserve it? Read the first part of this post as well.

Also, people need to stop pretending like he took back 20 minutes because they handed it to him. He took back 3 and a half minutes and had to work for it, though he was helped by the circumstances. But if those 3 and a half minutes put him within sight of overall victory, surely that indicates he wasn't trailing by much over the course of 3 weeks. It also indicates the other contenders were either too stupid or too weak to do anything about it.

- De Gendt is a hero, he deserves the stage win
- He was allowed to gain time because he was 8th @ +5.40, and the favorites' team wanted Garmin to do the chase by themselves
- If he was closer in GC he would not have attacked, let alone go that far ahead
- Garmin might have blown a Giro win with Hesjedal by not reeling him in sooner
- Being a fanboy is okay, you don't need to justify it

 

[DirtyWorks]

P.S.: So much of long range attacks don´t work anymore...

Again with this.

Every stage had a number of long range attacks. Almost none of them worked. Because the 1000th iteration worked, it's a proven strategy? The other 999 feel differently.

 

[ansimi]

i think nibali would have won this giro if he built his season around it. but to be honest this is the year to focus on the tour without contador and Andy under performing even more then he usually does. he can win the giro next year.

also a shame cunego wasn't in top shape, if he had his last year your form with the way he rode the race i am also going go with hrotha and say he may have been able to pull it off.

Nibali would have made this a completely different race. Liquigas had such a strong team that ended up working for Ryder Hesjedal! Nibali wants to win the Giro more than anything and I think he'll get it next year. I wouldn't be surprised if the route is especially designed for his descending attacks - especially if Italians get shut out of the podium this time.

I think Cunego might have been too quick to give up on himself as a GT rider. Him winning another Giro doesn't seem that far-fetched to me.

 

[Red Rick]

The pace wan't that low, bet because none of the favourites attacked, the peleton was full of dead guy's that were getting dropped at the first acceleration. If Scarponi would have attacked with 15 to go, VDV would have been gone and he could have had 15 km to try to break Hesjedal and chase de Gendt, but he didn't. He rode like a coward.

What's up with Cunego, didn't he peak for this Giro, i thought he just missed it, or is his objective to get 6th in every stage race he enters this year?

 

[Mellow Velo]

- De Gendt is a hero, he deserves the stage win
- He was allowed to gain time because he was 8th @ +5.40, and the favorites' team wanted Garmin to do the chase by themselves
- If he was closer in GC he would not have attacked, let alone go that far ahead
- Garmin might have blown a Giro win with Hesjedal by not reeling him in sooner
- Being a fanboy is okay, you don't need to justify it

Not sure who the fanboy is here.
This is a rather negative, not to say speculative assumption.
Did we not see almost the exact same thing from Andy Schleck,
during last year's Tour?
I'm pretty sure he wasn't being allowed to take time, then.

Garmin tried to reel him in, but couldn't. Ryder was right on the rivet, for the last kms. (as you would expect) Hesjedal certainly didn't volunteer those few seconds to Rodriguez: he couldn't respond.

My assumption would be that TdG came within a whisker of taking the pink.

Again with this.

Every stage had a number of long range attacks. Almost none of them worked. Because the 1000th iteration worked, it's a proven strategy? The other 999 feel differently.

Well it worked in the last two stages.
Depends how well the strategy is executed and by whom. Also within the context of the race. Yesterday, the Mortirolo offered up the opportunity and de Gendt took it.

 

[hrotha]

Not sure who the fanboy is here.
This is a rather negative, not to say speculative assumption.
Did we not see almost the exact same thing from Andy Schleck,
during last year's Tour?
I'm pretty sure he wasn't being allowed to take time, then.

Garmin tried to reel him in, but couldn't. Ryder was right on the rivet, for the last kms. (as you would expect) Hesjedal certainly didn't volunteer those few seconds to Rodriguez: he couldn't respond.

My assumption would be that TdG came within a whisker of taking the pink.

It was a bit different because Andy was a top contender. De Gendt, Cunego and Nieve were simply three dangerous riders slipping into a break in a close race, and while Thomas was the most dangerous of the three due to the ITT, it wasn't a given that he'd be the strongest on the climb. He had done great, but hadn't been able to climb with the best on the mountains, so that's another thing that makes it different from Andy's exploit.

On the final climb, of course, he outclimbed everyone but Hesjedal, Purito, Scarponi and possibly Gadret and a few others (not sure about the actual climbing times), and that after doing almost the whole Stelvio on his own. And anyway, when I say it was all down to tactics, I don't mean to take the credit away from him - a smart tactical move is a great and completely deserving way to win a race.

 

[hrotha]

Again with this.

Every stage had a number of long range attacks. Almost none of them worked. Because the 1000th iteration worked, it's a proven strategy? The other 999 feel differently.

Who launched those long-range attacks? The favourites?

I can think of one: Cunego, the day he followed Rujano. Then his group totally half-assed it, allowing Rabottini to keep his 5-minute lead for ages. Cunego didn't want to race, he found himself in that position, without support (hello Ulissi) and with Scarponi behind.

The day Kreuziger won, Cataldo was in the move too. It didn't work for him, but did he blow up? Did he lose anything by trying? No. He just saved himself from being another completely anonymous sheep and got a chance at winning a stage he'd never have had if he had stayed in the bunch, and he didn't even lose his decent GC position.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Anyway, we can definitely say that the removal of time bonuses on key mountain stages definitely worked...

Stage winners of the key mountain stages:
Andrey Amador (from the break)
Matteo Rabottini (from the break)
Joaquím Rodríguez
Roman Kreuziger (from the break)
Thomas de Gendt (from the break)

Yes, the latter two are guys who were peripheral GC contenders (and now, thanks to his work, de Gendt is a genuine GC contender), but the break's taken it every time.

Or, for another perspective:

2009 mountains classification:
1. Garzelli (6th on GC)
2. di Luca (2nd on GC)
3. Menchov (1st on GC)
5. Pellizotti (3rd on GC)
6. Sastre (4th on GC)

2010 mountains classification:
2. Basso (1st on GC)
4. Evans (5th on GC)
5. Scarponi (4th on GC)
9. Vinokourov (6th on GC)
10. Nibali (3rd on GC)

2011 mountains classification:
2. Contador (1st on GC)
3. Rujano (6th on GC)
4. Nieve (10th on GC)
7. Scarponi (2nd on GC)
8. Nibali (3rd on GC)

2012 mountains classification:
5. Pozzovivo (8th on GC at present)
8. Hesjedal (2nd on GC at present)
9. Rodríguez (1st on GC at present)
10. de Gendt (4th on GC at present)

The GC contenders have been far more peripheral to the GPM than usual now that their incentive for being at the front on mountain stages has been removed.

 

[will10]

For those who say the pace of this Giro was low, what about those good riders who underperformed. Gadret, Basso, Scarponi to a lesser extent Dupont. szmyd.

Kreuziger may not be a top gt contender but is someone like him going to lose 30 on a stage if the pace is so low?

30 minutes? Which stage did Kreuziger lose 30 minutes on? Even when he blew he "only" lost 11 minutes.

 

[El Pistolero]

- De Gendt is a hero, he deserves the stage win
- He was allowed to gain time because he was 8th @ +5.40, and the favorites' team wanted Garmin to do the chase by themselves
- If he was closer in GC he would not have attacked, let alone go that far ahead
- Garmin might have blown a Giro win with Hesjedal by not reeling him in sooner
- Being a fanboy is okay, you don't need to justify it

Without the team time trial Hesjedal would only be 31 seconds ahead right now. Thomas de Gendt also had a flat tire at one of the mountain stages in the last 3km... Lost around 20-30 seconds there.

Hesjedal can count his lucky stars.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Without the team time trial Hesjedal would only be 31 seconds ahead right now. Thomas de Gendt also had a flat tire at one of the mountain stages in the last 3km... Lost around 20-30 seconds there.

Hesjedal can count his lucky stars.

A TTT is part of the race so no excuse. Flat tire yeah. But De Gendt also lost 1'-1'30 in other mountain stages

 

[Lanark]

It's useless anyway. De Gendt his current position in the GC is for a large part due to tactics. If he was closer in the GC at the start of yesterday's stage, the tactical decissions by everyone else would be completely different, and the stage would have likely unfolded very differently (maybe De Gendt would be in a worse position now if he hadn't lost time in those early stages).

 

[El Pistolero]

A TTT is part of the race so no excuse. Flat tire yeah. But De Gendt also lost 1'-1'30 in other mountain stages

I know it's not an excuse, I just don't think it's right that someone like Jrod can take massive time on other people with barely taking any turns. Remember Andy and Frank last year at the Tour?

Hesjedal did take lot's of turns in the TTT though, so I don't really mind about him. But for me, cycling is still mostly an individual sport... Always will be.

De Gendt will probably be tired of yesterday's effort and not do a good time trial anyway.

1. Hesjedal
2. De Gendt
3. Purito(don't want to see him win)

 

[roundabout]

Anyway, we can definitely say that the removal of time bonuses on key mountain stages definitely worked...


The GC contenders have been far more peripheral to the GPM than usual now that their incentive for being at the front on mountain stages has been removed.

Yeah, better give the riders unable/unwilling to gain a lot of time in attacks extra incentive to wait till the last 800 meters.

 

[El Pistolero]

Yeah, better give the riders unable/unwilling to gain a lot of time in attacks extra incentive to wait till the last 800 meters.

Isn't that exactly what happened in this year's Giro?

 

[hrotha]

Isn't that exactly what happened in this year's Giro?

Yes, it happened even without the incentive. Imagine if the incentive was there.

Then again, maybe that would have made the likes of Scarponi try to drop Purito.

Nah I'm kidding. Scarponi has been a disgrace.

 

[The Hitch]

A TTT is part of the race so no excuse.

Of course it is. the only thing you can say is that maybe tdg would not have been given so much room if he wasn't that far back. but forcing a rider, in an endurance race, to spend twice as much energy just to get level with his competitors, if that's not a valid excuse for.not winning then nothing is.

 

[The Hitch]

30 minutes? Which stage did Kreuziger lose 30 minutes on? Even when he blew he "only" lost 11 minutes.

Seems i was a bit confused. 11 it is.

 

[CasperVg]

Yes, it happened even without the incentive. Imagine if the incentive was there.

Then again, maybe that would have made the likes of Scarponi try to drop Purito.

Nah I'm kidding. Scarponi has been a disgrace.

Scarponi seemed quite strong, but was too afraid of Basso it seems.

 

[greenedge]

It's amazing as to how strong Basso looked then he crumbled. It happened last year as well.