State of the peloton 2021

[zlev11]

Sunweb had some rocket fuel last year for sure

 

[Mayomaniac]

Unable to find the right thread, so I'm putting it in here: How suspicious does Hirschi's sudden rise last year and his sudden decline this year look to you? With the talk of whereabout issues, the team change...
Surely he might just have medical problems, but this looks crazily suspicious to me. So he was an extremely talented young rider, but then was pretty much nowhere in the first half of the year, then suddenly becomes one of the very, very best, and now he's doing nothing of notice in the races that should suit him so well.
He seems nice, but wtf.

Hirschi already had a pretty crazy season as a neopro in 2019, but Pogi and Remco took most of the spotlight.
10th in E3, 3rd in San Sebastian, 5th on the gc in the BinckBank Tour and 6th on the gc in the Deutschland Tour.

 

[BlueRoads]

Hirschi already had a pretty crazy season as a neopro in 2019, but Pogi and Remco took most of the spotlight.
10th in E3, 3rd in San Sebastian, 5th on the gc in the BinckBank Tour and 6th on the gc in the Deutschland Tour.

Yeah, I know... I had him in my cqteam, that's why I followed him closer...

Do you think I'm expecting too much stability from young riders? I mean, it's true, I don't know anything about those things in terms of training/ physical development. It's just my spectator's experience through the years.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Yeah, I know... I had him in my cqteam, that's why I followed him closer...

Do you think I'm expecting too much stability from young riders? I mean, it's true, I don't know anything about those things in terms of training/ physical development. It's just my spectator's experience through the years.

No, on this one I'm actually with you. With the last generation we usually saw a rather linear progression over the year until they became good gc riders. Now we seem to get more and more riders who are really talented in the u23 ranks and have a decent pro career, but nothing too special, until they suddenly pull a world class performance out of their hat (Padun, Hindley, Tao).

 

[solo80k]

What about Uran's performance today? People say it was on Pog 2020 Tour level, I don't believe it.

Personally, I rate Uran really high in terms of GT GC. I think he dopes as rare as possible and gets special prep once in a few years (post-Sky career of course). Thanks to such approach, his body responds strongly to the doping cycles stimulation because he's not doped continuously.

What's your opinion?

 

[will-10]

I don't think it's anywhere close to Pog on Planche. If he repeats at the Tour then let's talk.

 

[Cookster15]

I don't think it's anywhere close to Pog on Planche. If he repeats at the Tour then let's talk.

Agree. Looks like Uran has finally recaptured the form he showed in 2014 Giro when he destroyed Cadel in the TT. But today’s course was unusual so difficult to make heads or tails of it. As you say if Uran repeats at the TdF ……

 

[SafeBet]

The nature of the ITT made it really suitable for a "surprise" winner. I don't think there's much to extrapolate apart from EF confirming their good levels in time trials and Uran being in fine form despite having no race days for more than 2 months.

 

[Red Rick]

The nature of the ITT made it really suitable for a "surprise" winner. I don't think there's much to extrapolate apart from EF confirming their good levels in time trials and Uran being in fine form despite having no race days for more than 2 months.

Pretty much yeah. Without the pure climbing time there's not that much to say here. MTTs in general often have more variability than a MTF on the same climb.

 

[Rackham]

From my perspective it seemed the TT suited Uran's rouleur/grimpeur qualities perfectly. Wide roads & steady gradient (without much change of pace), i.e. the sort of stuff we seem to see on the TV images of the Tour of Columbia.

 

[42x16ss]

What about Uran's performance today? People say it was on Pog 2020 Tour level, I don't believe it.

Personally, I rate Uran really high in terms of GT GC. I think he dopes as rare as possible and gets special prep once in a few years (post-Sky career of course). Thanks to such approach, his body responds strongly to the doping cycles stimulation because he's not doped continuously.

What's your opinion?

All I know for sure is that it was a longer rolling TT like almost every other TT he's done well in previously.

Edit: Having said that what makes you so certain he may have doped at other teams but not Sky? Pretty laughable considering he got his first GT podium there.

 

[solo80k]

All I know for sure is that it was a longer rolling TT like almost every other TT he's done well in previously.

Edit: Having said that what makes you so certain he may have doped at other teams but not Sky? Pretty laughable considering he got his first GT podium there.

No, I meant he rarely doped post-Sky (he was allowed to dope on his own terms in other teams). What he made in Sky... it was rather a silent obligation than his own choice.

 

[pastronef]

No, I meant he rarely doped post-Sky (he was allowed to dope on his own terms in other teams). What he made in Sky... it was rather a silent obligation than his own choice.

what?
he rarely what?
it's amazing how people know who doped, but also how and when?

so he used Sky team doping when at Sky but he arrived 57 seconds behind Froome and his motor and Sky super doping at the 2017 Tour?

it was a "silent obligation"? some people have a whole fantasy world inside their minds ffs

 

[pastronef]

just imagine the speculations and conspiracies if ANY Ineos rider put his career on hold for a few months, then came back and won a race like Dumo did...

 

[Ilmaestro99]

just imagine the speculations and conspiracies if ANY Ineos rider put his career on hold for a few months, then came back and won a race like Dumo did...

Don't really understand why this performance bothers you so much. We are talking about a former ITT world champion who is winning his national championship against Langeveld and Bouwman. Coming off a nice weeks racing in Tour de Suisse.

Of course we know the absurd things Dumoulin has done in the past and the comments of Georg Preidler, but this particular performance is pretty normal

 

[pastronef]

no no, his performance does not bother me, I am happy he won. I just was thinking about how the hypocrisy works among pro cycling followers.
I am fine with his win

 

[solo80k]

what?
he rarely what?
it's amazing how people know who doped, but also how and when?

so he used Sky team doping when at Sky but he arrived 57 seconds behind Froome and his motor and Sky super doping at the 2017 Tour?

it was a "silent obligation"? some people have a whole fantasy world inside their minds ffs

Who said he was clean during TdF2017? All I said is that he can choose to dope or not post Sky. And if I'm not mistaken his contract was expiring at the end of 2017, so he used his performance to secure next years as well paid pro.

I mean, come on, you can't finish TdF in top 5 without doping regime.... you simply can't, because the competition is prepared as well as you.

 

[pastronef]

so at Sky you can´t choose? HOW DO YOU KNOW? not only you know who and when riders dope but also if they can or cannot choose. wow

 

[will-10]

Gaudu:

“I enjoyed the whole week in the Basque Country enormously. I felt good and ended up being up there. That shows that even riders who belong to the MPCC [Movement for Credible Cycling] can be up there are the front. I was at 100 per cent and was able to be up there with the best riders, and you see that everyone is beatable.”

 

[Rackham]

Gaudu:

“I enjoyed the whole week in the Basque Country enormously. I felt good and ended up being up there. That shows that even riders who belong to the MPCC [Movement for Credible Cycling] can be up there are the front. I was at 100 per cent and was able to be up there with the best riders, and you see that everyone is beatable.”

The MPCC has little to no credibility, certainly when it's spearheaded by guys like Marc Madiot (Gaudu's boss, for what it's worth), aka a man with quite a lot a baggage & some funny anecdotes regarding his own PED habits back in the 80's/90's: L'ex-directeur sportif de Lance Armstrong balance (lessentiel.lu)

The moralistic, holier than thou approach from some circles within pro-cycling in France always rubbed me the wrong way considering "who" these people are & what they did themselves. Even symbolized (for example) by a guy like Laurent Jalabert who is a commentator for the Tour on French public TV & no one says anything, i;.e. at a time when the name "Armstrong" is completely forbidden! Also, most of the sporting directors in France themselves rode during the "dark era" & never confessed to doping or elected to step back from the sport in the name of the greater good. That's another issue: the so called champions of "clean" cycling who lecture & preach today were feeding at the same table as everyone else in the 80's & 90's. No self-awareness, no mea culpa, just permanent mud thrown at others.

As for Gaudu, I like the guy but he shouldn't feel the need to justify his own good performances with a conversation about drugs in the sport. It's awkward.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

"A few surprising things in the racing recently..."

Marc Madiot blog: As always, Brittany saves cycling

'We've seen a few surprising things in racing recently and we're still waiting for news from the UCI on corticoids and ketones'

www.cyclingnews.com

I go to the Tour de France with a lot of hopes but also with some concerns. I read that the presidency of the UCI was going to communicate the new rules about the use of corticoids in May or June and we're still waiting for it. The MPCC has questioned the UCI about the ketones and is yet to receive an answer. We've seen a few surprising things in the racing recently…

Nobody wants another Tour that starts from Brest to look like the one in 2008!

 

[will-10]

I mean, the Gaudu interview is just Madiot's words coming out of his mouth, isn't it. Those two read together are uncanny.

 

[Rackham]

I mean, the Gaudu interview is just Madiot's words coming out of his mouth, isn't it. Those two read together are uncanny.

Pinot (from the same team) also had a bad habit of talking about doping too much.

It's tedious tbh, i.e. from what we know, it's not ketones or corticoids which make some riders champions versus the rest, so Madiot should shut up already about that. I mean yeah, I agree there's been some "surprising" stuff recently, but there's nothing Madiot does or says which ever comes close to shining a light on the real "behind the scenes".

No, it's just perpetual vague accusations mixed with self-righteousness.

 

[Ripper]

Pinot (from the same team) also had a bad habit of talking about doping too much.

It's tedious tbh, i.e. from what we know, it's not ketones or corticoids which make some riders champions versus the rest, so Madiot should shut up already about that. I mean yeah, I agree there's been some "surprising" stuff recently, but there's nothing Madiot does or says which ever comes close to shining a light on the real "behind the scenes".

No, it's just perpetual vague accusations mixed with self-righteousness.

Yes, and the perpetual self-righteousness coming out of Madiot is a little bit ironic to say the least.

 

[JosefK]

State of the peloton as of 28 June 2021 (stage 3) at the TDF: in need of some serious pharmaceuticals -- pain killers.