State of the peloton 2021

[pastronef]

and I have also no respect for the "concern trolling" of Vayer & co who really just want to see the whole sport burn for whatever reasons.

and behind, or side by side with Vayer, there are dozens of French fans lapping up his rants, and other hundreds of French fans moaning since years, the poor Frenchies, the losers. wait a minute, they were hyper excited when Lappartient won the UCI election a few years ago...

 

[Escarabajo]

This is a massive misconception imo, Bernal and Sivakov were flying just after lockdown, the reasons for their struggles at the Tour were injuries. If Sivakov hadn't crashed and Bernal not damaged his back then Ineos would have been right up there in the podium fight.

There could be plenty of reasons why he exploded after showing some of his best numbers. I doesn't mean that his back was not hurting because I believe it was. But in the 90's there were stories from many riders trying to hang on to doped to the gills riders and then exploding. Lemond was one of those stories. Armstrong had a similar story about that as well (not that he was clean, but not in the right program). Other riders were complaining about trying to hang on and then exploding. It becomes a physical and a mental problem that you cannot beat the best when you used to be the best. And all of a sudden your back problem amplifies and becomes your biggest excuse. When in fact is not the biggest reason, but part of the reason.

There is a reason why Bernal is going to the Giro to build on his confidence. That was as straight answer from the team as we have gotten in a long time.

As for us to know the details of what happen on stage 20 from the 2020 TdF. We have to wait for a Landis type confession. Or Willy Voet's type book. It might happen but I won't lose my sleep over it. BTW, we have gotten a lot of juicy details from some of the riders from the 90's. Very nice details. Even some media saying that returning to the Hotel very late and noticing the riders getting up in the middle of the night to walk around the halls. Later we understood why. That is some Netflix stuff!.

 

[pastronef]

As for us to know the details of what happen on stage 20 from the 2019 TdF. We have to wait for a Landis type confession.

I think you mean 2020, the PdBF TT. why should there be a Landis style confession or a scandal?

Roglic had been on form since Tour de l´Ain, and abandoned Dauphiné because of a crash (he was in the lead). the stress and decreasing form could have contributed, he already was losing time on the flat. look for Jumbo car video, look at the driver and DS faces since the first meter. it´s didnt look good from the go.

 

[BlueRoads]

I think you mean 2020, the PdBF TT. why should there be a Landis style confession or a scandal?

Roglic had been on form since Tour de l´Ain, and abandoned Dauphiné because of a crash (he was in the lead). the stress and decreasing form could have contributed, he already was losing time on the flat. look for Jumbo car video, look at the driver and DS faces since the first meter. it´s didnt look good from the go.

Are you saying you think the TT looked quite normal and explainable?

 

[Escarabajo]

I think you mean 2020, the PdBF TT. why should there be a Landis style confession or a scandal?

Roglic had been on form since Tour de l´Ain, and abandoned Dauphiné because of a crash (he was in the lead). the stress and decreasing form could have contributed, he already was losing time on the flat. look for Jumbo car video, look at the driver and DS faces since the first meter. it´s didnt look good from the go.

Yes. Sorry. Today, my finger has been off!

Independent of Roglic, that TT time by Pogacar looked suspicious from any angle.

 

[Red Rick]

Yes. Sorry. Today, my finger has been off!

Independent of Roglic, that TT time by Pogacar looked suspicious from any angle.

All the pieces allign to make it look more ridiculous.

1. Dumoulin not switching bikes and thus sabotaging himself
2. Roglic crumbling completely

But the thing that stands out most is Pogacars climbing time. That just takes all the cake no matter how much you emphasize Roglic having a *** ITT

 

[roundabout]

Roglic doing a Dumoulin level ITT with changing bikes could have been enough to save the Tour even with Pogacar in turbo mode.

I think on the best day for everyone, that Pogacar would have still won the stage, but there would have been a lot less people talking about it.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Roglic doing a Dumoulin level ITT with changing bikes could have been enough to save the Tour even with Pogacar in turbo mode.

I think on the best day for everyone, that Pogacar would have still won the stage, but there would have been a lot less people talking about it.

Pogacar ride was next level thermonuclear radioactive, no matter how anyone else went he would win and it will go down as a Landis level performance.

And 99% of people didn't believe what they saw that day, just comical to see pogacar almost slightly embarrassed after winning and being with Mauro Gianetti at the finish.


There is nothing that roglic could have done that would save the TDF that day.

 

[Rackham]

Roglic doing a Dumoulin level ITT with changing bikes could have been enough to save the Tour even with Pogacar in turbo mode.

I think on the best day for everyone, that Pogacar would have still won the stage, but there would have been a lot less people talking about it.

Pogacar put 1:21 on Dumoulin which was more than enough to overcome the minute he needed on Roglic before the stage, even if Primoz put in a similar performance to his Dutch teammate.

Face facts: Primoz was screwed in every scenario. I mean he could have beaten Van Aert, Dumoulin & put in one of his best ever TT performances... & he would have still lost the Tour.

Pogacar is in an unenviable position this Tour though, i.e. the bar has been set & the standard he imposed last year demands he perform equally or thereabouts. Last year he was the young rookie underdog (who people were cheering for as well), whereas this year he's the favorite who is expected to deliver a superhuman performance in the final TT because that's what he did last year.

Wait & see.

 

[roundabout]

Pogacar put 1:21 on Dumoulin which was more than enough to overcome the minute he needed on Roglic before the stage, even if Primoz put in a similar performance to his Dutch teammate.

Face facts: Primoz was screwed in every scenario. I mean he could have beaten Van Aert, Dumoulin & put in one of his best ever TT performances... & he would have still lost the Tour.

Pogacar is in an unenviable position this Tour though, i.e. the bar has been set & the standard he imposed last year demands he perform equally or thereabouts. Last year he was the young rookie underdog (who people were cheering for as well), whereas this year he's the favorite who is expected to deliver a superhuman performance in the final TT because that's what he did last year.

Wait & see.

Planche is 500 meters ascent circa top to bottom. Assume 3 s per 100 meters of ascent loss per 1 kg of extra weight (taking the effect of having to lug the disc wheel up and power loss from riding on a TT bike into account). Assume 2kg difference between road and TT bike. That's a 30 seconds loss. With a theoretical 15 seconds disadvantage (considering a 15 seconds loss to a bike change) Dumoulin did the last climb only 1 second slower than Roglic despite being consistently much worse uphill during the whole Tour.

So no, despite JV efforts to build up the narrative that there is nothing Roglic could have done , I don't buy it.

But feel free to disagree and that's enough going OT from me in this thread.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Roglic was collapsing because he knew he was losing, and let's say roglic went 30s faster on planche, he still lost TDF to the chemical missile prodigy of Gianetti anyway.

If roglic takes a blood bag after col de loze maybe he could have beaten pogacar.

 

[pastronef]

Roglic was collapsing because he knew he was losing, and let's say roglic went 30s faster on planche, he still lost TDF to the chemical missile prodigy of Gianetti anyway.

If roglic takes a blood bag after col de loze maybe he could have beaten pogacar.

I always smaile when ppl on forums give doping tips, or even pretend they are sure about what some athletes must be doing or not doing.
chemical missile...
blood bag...
bah
I fear and guess racing is much much more than that.

 

[Red Rick]

I always smaile when ppl on forums give doping tips, or even pretend they are sure about what some athletes must be doing or not doing.
chemical missile...
blood bag...
bah
I fear and guess racing is much much more than that.

When top level racers are clueless about wth Pogacar is doing

 

[Ripper]

When top level racers are clueless about wth Pogacar is doing

I think that pic will be priceless for quite some time. The in the moment reactions to ridonkulous are always the most telling. Like when the press gallery were laughing when Pharmstrong originally lit it up on alpine climbs. I think that moment might have been when TD just decided "I'm done with this". Perhaps not, but the narrative is certainly easy to create!

 

[veganrob]

Not normal. lol

 

[Red Rick]

I think that pic will be priceless for quite some time. The in the moment reactions to ridonkulous are always the most telling. Like when the press gallery were laughing when Pharmstrong originally lit it up on alpine climbs. I think that moment might have been when TD just decided "I'm done with this". Perhaps not, but the narrative is certainly easy to create!

Dumoulin's reaction in the car in the docu was brutal. He couldn't stop himself. I definitely think it played some role for him.

 

[zlev11]

incredible performance by Quick Step in the TT today

 

[JosefK]

incredible performance by Quick Step in the TT today

Certainly strong, very strong. I'd place it at a 1-kiloton tactical nuke level. Maybe not full thermonuclear, though.

 

[Escarabajo]

incredible performance by Quick Step in the TT today

QS reminds me of Kelme in the 90's and 00's. It didn't matter who they plug in the team, they would always perform at high level. We later found out why.

 

[Ripper]

Certainly strong, very strong. I'd place it at a 1-kiloton tactical nuke level. Maybe not full thermonuclear, though.

At first I read that as a 1-kloden

 

[Rackham]

QS reminds me of Kelme in the 90's and 00's. It didn't matter who they plug in the team, they would always perform at high level. We later found out why.

You're being very generous with the Kelme comparison (I don't know why but I always liked those guys), i.e. meanwhile when I'm watching Deceuninck I'm thinking "something Festina" to be honest.

They're all super strong, all the time, the entire team. When I see these guys I get memory flashbacks to1997 Festina. It doesn't matter whether it's the top guys or the lower barely known guys, they're always strong.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

You're being very generous with the Kelme comparison (I don't know why but I always liked those guys), i.e. meanwhile when I'm watching Deceuninck I'm thinking "something Festina" to be honest.

They're all super strong, all the time, the entire team. When I see these guys I get memory flashbacks to1997 Festina. It doesn't matter whether it's the top guys or the lower barely known guys, they're always strong.

I think it was E3 this year on the run in to the Taaienberg where all 7 DQS came to the front and ramped the pace up, that was a holy sh*t moment and the most impressive show of team strength I have seen in a while.

You are right that the entire team becomes strong. For every favourite in the final 50km of a classic there is 3 or 4 DQS riders making it look easy. And now they can do things like turn Masnada into a time trialist and Cavendish into a sprinter again. They can even turn Gilbert into Cancellara.

 

[Blanco]

And they're doing it for 10 years!!!
Those two doctors create miracles!

 

[BlueRoads]

To be fair they do a lot of things right. I do believe the clinic side has a not too small effect, but there are other major reasons for their success as well.

 

[PhiLiz]

They didn't ride that hard. But reviewing the Alpe stage they may have reduced the peloton down to about 15 riders on the Croix de Fer, but there was a talentless Barloworld neo-pro in there riding fifth wheel so they can't have ridden that hard

Who then finished the stage almost 12 minutes down. And that Tour a couple of hours away from the winner.

The signs of a future GOAT were clearly there...