State of the Peloton 2024

[Ripper]

I prefer what we're seeing in Paris-Nice tbh. I mean sure there will be some shenanigans in the preparation there as well but at least there's a real fight with riders who're in the same ballpark form wise. I'll always have more respect for a race with a tight fight for the win than one way demolition jobs with people gawking at a phony guy riding around minutes ahead of everyone.

I've been watching sport since the 1990's & there's never ever been an athlete in any sport who dominates without it being industrialized & totally cynical, whether legal (like in f1, although even then there's often cheating like Schumacher with his hidden driving aids in 1994), or illegal (athletics, cycling etc.). Even Messi & Ronaldo were doped up to their eyeballs & used to run around like rabbits without ever getting tired.

This is just me but I basically don't watch sport for supermen performances. They suck the joy out of it. Especially when I see the bean counters behind the scenes clapping & applauding. It's too obvious.

So long story short, you are not a fan of the Joni J or Teddy T fun park exhibitions (with occasional cameos by a couple of others)

 

[Rackham]

So long story short, you are not a fan of the Joni J or Teddy T fun park exhibitions (with occasional cameos by a couple of others)

Real long story short: Never!

If I want to suspend disbelief, I'll watch some Marvel schlock. I never cared for sportsmen to demolish the field in any discipline.

In many cases, they're also a pretty whacky asocial bunch with psychological issues. This 'winner' mentality can add to their strength of course but considering it's all just a spectacle, I'm not required to like them. No one else is either & I'll always laugh at the suggestion we should not only accept, admire & be in awe of incredible exploits, but also respect & even like the guys performing them as well.

Sorry, but no.

 

[red_flanders]

I prefer what we're seeing in Paris-Nice tbh. I mean sure there will be some shenanigans in the preparation there as well but at least there's a real fight with riders who're in the same ballpark form wise. I'll always have more respect for a race with a tight fight for the win than one way demolition jobs with people gawking at a phony guy riding around minutes ahead of everyone.

I find the Matteo Jorgensen "follow anyone without breathing hard" level... more than a bit much.

 

[Rackham]

I find the Matteo Jorgensen "follow anyone without breathing hard" level... more than a bit much.

I wrote that quote before today's stage.

I think he could have dropped Evenepoel had he tried tbh. Maybe that's just an impression but he was very comfortable.

 

[red_flanders]

I wrote that quote before today's stage.

I think he could have dropped Evenepoel had he tried tbh. Maybe that's just an impression but he was very comfortable.

Very. Could have gone off alone IMO, just didn't need to.

 

[DNP-Old]

I find the Matteo Jorgensen "follow anyone without breathing hard" level... more than a bit much.

I’m sorry for you. I’m sorry you can’t dream big and I’m sorry you don’t believe in miracles...

 

[Ripper]

Very. Could have gone off alone IMO, just didn't need to.

Interesting. Do you know much about the Matty J-man?

And to an observation you made in other thread, JoJo's domestique putting the hurt show on does not bode well

 

[red_flanders]

Interesting. Do you know much about the Matty J-man?

And to an observation you made in other thread, JoJo's domestique putting the hurt show on does not bode well

Not especially. I know that he's become a very different rider on Visma than Movistar.

 

[Ripper]

Not especially. I know that he's become a very different rider on Visma than Movistar.

That would seem to be true

 

[Rob5091]

Fastest ever ... again! Milan explains why-
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...t-win-on-fastest-ever-tirreno-adriatico-stage
This was also the fastest stage ever recorded at Tirreno-Adriatico with an average speed of a staggering 47kmh. “There are several reasons for this. Initially we didn't want to let the flight get too far away, because there were a number of strong guys in that group. So we really had to pick up the pace. At the end the pace was of course very high with the bunch sprint that was coming,” Milan concludes.

Edit - just as you were thinking it must have been a mighty strong tailwind -
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wi...rked-alexander-kristoff-on-uno-x-late-attack/

“I felt we were a little bit too much in front with only one guy in the last straight with so much headwind so I just let him go and try to scream to go,” Kristoff told CyclingProNet after the finish.

 

[pastronef]

I think there's something inside the Wada limits. otherwise, with the outrage from fans and some journos, they wouldn't keep smashing record after record. and if there's something grey-area it is for training, not in competition, and it walks the thin red line but doesnt cross it.

 

[Sciatic]

I think there's something inside the Wada limits. otherwise, with the outrage from fans and some journos, they wouldn't keep smashing record after record. and if there's something grey-area it is for training, not in competition, and it walks the thin red line but doesnt cross it.

In my mind, the exclusion allowed for time spent altitude training is a giant loophole. Whether someone is “trying” or not, an individual’s hematocrit increases due to the hypoxia at high altitude. And then HCT returns to closer to baseline by the end of 2 weeks. The bio passport has to allow for the boost in HCT for folks returning from altitude camp (or from Colombia, for example). But each person’s physiology would differ in how big of a bump they would get in HCT from altitude. So I don’t see how th y can detect whether a rider has “topped off” the altitude-produced blood boost with micro dosed EPO. A recent research paper also showed that the return to baseline HCT takes a little longer with EPO than altitude (up to 3wks), providing some extra benefit. Will try to find the article and post.

 

[zlev11]

In my mind, the exclusion allowed for time spent altitude training is a giant loophole. Whether someone is “trying” or not, an individual’s hematocrit increases due to the hypoxia at high altitude. And then HCT returns to closer to baseline by the end of 2 weeks. The bio passport has to allow for the boost in HCT for folks returning from altitude camp (or from Colombia, for example). But each person’s physiology would differ in how big of a bump they would get in HCT from altitude. So I don’t see how th y can detect whether a rider has “topped off” the altitude-produced blood boost with micro dosed EPO. A recent research paper also showed that the return to baseline HCT takes a little longer with EPO than altitude (up to 3wks), providing some extra benefit. Will try to find the article and post.

this makes sense but, correct me if im wrong, microdosed EPO is detectable isn't it? i know it has a very short window if taken intravenously but there's still some risk if they are coming down from altitude and going straight to a race.

 

[Sciatic]

this makes sense but, correct me if im wrong, microdosed EPO is detectable isn't it? i know it has a very short window if taken intravenously but there's still some risk if they are coming down from altitude and going straight to a race.

I don’t believe it is easily detectable, but I don’t have a source to cite—just going by what others have indicated here.

 

[Rob5091]

From 2021 - (there are more studies on microdosing)
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32737925/
"While endogenous EPO was not decreased over the course of the study, EPO microdoses were detectable in blood and urine between 24 h and 72 h after an administration. Detection in urine in combination with SDS-PAGE was the most sensitive combination for prolonged detection (100% identification after 48 h, 91% after 72 h), slightly better than IEF. Urine samples also tested by SAR-PAGE indicated a similar sensitivity of detection to SDS-PAGE. "

 

[Red Rick]

From 2021 - (there are more studies on microdosing)
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32737925/
"While endogenous EPO was not decreased over the course of the study, EPO microdoses were detectable in blood and urine between 24 h and 72 h after an administration. Detection in urine in combination with SDS-PAGE was the most sensitive combination for prolonged detection (100% identification after 48 h, 91% after 72 h), slightly better than IEF. Urine samples also tested by SAR-PAGE indicated a similar sensitivity of detection to SDS-PAGE. "

That glow time seems quite long.

 

[Sciatic]

From 2021 - (there are more studies on microdosing)
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32737925/
"While endogenous EPO was not decreased over the course of the study, EPO microdoses were detectable in blood and urine between 24 h and 72 h after an administration. Detection in urine in combination with SDS-PAGE was the most sensitive combination for prolonged detection (100% identification after 48 h, 91% after 72 h), slightly better than IEF. Urine samples also tested by SAR-PAGE indicated a similar sensitivity of detection to SDS-PAGE. "

Thanks for that link.

 

[Tim Cahill]

https://www.usada.org/wp-content/uploads/Hamilton-Tyler-Affidavit.pdf

84-87

 

[zlev11]

https://www.usada.org/wp-content/uploads/Hamilton-Tyler-Affidavit.pdf

84-87

unrelated but 83 is awesome. Lance just sending EPO to him in the mail lol.

 

[Red Rick]

This Lance guy seems like a lovely chap. Happy to see so many people like him.

 

[Sciatic]

This Lance guy seems like a lovely chap. Happy to see so many people like him.

I forgot about the squirt under the tongue testo thing. Man were they ever “anything goes” in their doping regime.

I still feel some sadness when I reread about the deleted positive test results. Even if it was just that one known (and publicized) doping violation, it could have significantly reduced the number of Americans who were blindly devoted to him as their motivational and cancer guru.

 

[Rob5091]

We have never got all the dirt on the other side of the Lance doping story, namely what the UCI were up to.

 

[Rackham]

https://www.usada.org/wp-content/uploads/Hamilton-Tyler-Affidavit.pdf

84-87

I believe nothing has changed. That's the punchline to the joke, I guess.

I think this cops & robbers dynamic has been ongoing in the peloton since the 1970's, easily, probably even earlier as well. People haven't actually learned anything from the Armstrong story. For the sake of "the show must go on" it was all just deflected as an 'Armstrong problem' instead of what it really is: a pro sports problem.

 

[Netserk]

Oh, I’m sure they have learned something. When sponsors leave the sport after the demise of Armstrong, when TV channels stop covering the sport after their own national heroes have been busted, the lesson is clear. Don’t touch the stars. Don’t make a fuss. As long as it’s not a one sided competition, no one minds riders as fast as the jam-blooded monsters from the 90’s.

 

[shadowrider]

I don't know what's going on but I can tell you one thing:
1) Pogacar is the best cyclist I've seen
2) Vingegaard is the best stage racer I've seen
3) MVP is on his way to becoming the best one-day racer I've seen
Three monsters.

The "actual" best cyclist, or the "actual" best stage racer you've seen. Are you that young ? Only following cyclism since 3 or 4 years ? Even than, haven't you read about the topriders of the past.
Only Pogacar comes close to the best riders of the past. Not specializing in any one discipline or type of races. Also winning those races, sometimes with bravado. Vingegaard might be the best stage rider and GC-rider of the moment, but only because he only focuses on that. Not riding or properly preparing classics, monuments, worlds (road and TT).

In the past, the best stageriders, also won classics, monuments and worlds. So, no, I'm not impressed of most of the actual (top)riders. With the exception of Pogacar. VDP also has potential. Already nice victorys and impressive solos. But he hasn't enough climbing abilitys and sometimes it doesn't work for months.