State of the Peloton 2025

[Mayomaniac]

I recall Gee doing quite good performances as an absolute nobody with Israel Premier Tech as a stagiare in "O Gran Camiño" three years ago. Late switch to road could justify greater leaps in performances on relatively adult ages. I don't think he is the most suspicious of the pack at all and Israel does not seem a Carnivale either.

I guess Astana will be told to cut the fireworks on higher races and keep a lower profile once they are safe. UCI will be very happy with Chinese money and exposure to a relatively new market, but this Scambrogio freak show is disgusting.

I think Astana with big Chinese money will have more than enough political protection...

 

[Divergence]

lol the bikes aren't 5 minutes slower on alpe d'huez. if anything they are slower with the disc brakes. omerta.

I think he actually believes that. I wanted to find if there are any tests comparing an older bike (say Armstrong's bike) to a modern one up a mountain (20+ min test). Funnily I could not find any (did not search for long so maybe someone can correct me here). My believe is that a modern bike should be around 90s faster on a climb like AdH but I would like to see some tests.

 

[Red Rick]

Nans Peter at Team Babs (Decathlon/AG2R) talks the "D word" -
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...world-tour-pro-on-doping-questions-in-cycling



If there is "no doping" it would be the first time in the history of the sport!

The *** hilarity is Vingegaard admitting to W/kg estimates being accurate.

 

[Red Rick]

I think he actually believes that. I wanted to find if there are any tests comparing an older bike (say Armstrong's bike) to a modern one up a mountain (20+ min test). Funnily I could not find any (did not search for long so maybe someone can correct me here). My believe is that a modern bike should be around 90s faster on a climb like AdH but I would like to see some tests.

GCN had some and the difference was pretty small.

Also, if you really get into differences as big as 5 minutes you're basically getting into the territory where the pure math of climbing against gravity doesn't work out so well anymore and the CdA values you need to put in become *** absurd.

Any active rider saying this stuff can be dismissed without evidence. They don't believe what they say, they are towing the line.

 

[E_F_]

Any active rider saying this stuff can be dismissed without evidence. They don't believe what they say, they are towing the line.

Or they are profoundly stupid and/or gullible - brainwashed by equipment makers and team staffers.

 

[Red Rick]

Or they are profoundly stupid and/or gullible - brainwashed by equipment makers and team staffers.

I would expect riders to know themselves if they're on some sauce, and by extension what numbers equated to what climbing times 5 years ago.

 

[Divergence]

GCN had some and the difference was pretty small.

Also, if you really get into differences as big as 5 minutes you're basically getting into the territory where the pure math of climbing against gravity doesn't work out so well anymore and the CdA values you need to put in become *** absurd.

Any active rider saying this stuff can be dismissed without evidence. They don't believe what they say, they are towing the line.

Could be, but I am not convinced. Just by listening to some of them or reading what they have said it appears to be that they (a non-negligible subset of the pro peloton) are neither the brightest nor inclined to do some mathematical/physics based reasoning.
I usually watch such videos from GCN but I cannot find one which does the comparison I described above.
On a related note it is quite refreshing that GCN tech just published a video where they finally say plainly that 25mm or 28mm are the fastest tire if one is not plus sized (amongst other things).

 

[Red Rick]

Could be, but I am not convinced. Just by listening to some of them or reading what they have said it appears to be that they (a non-negligible subset of the pro peloton) are neither the brightest nor inclined to do some mathematical/physics based reasoning.
I usually watch such videos from GCN but I cannot find one which does the comparison I described above.
On a related note it is quite refreshing that GCN tech just published a video where they finally say plainly that 25mm or 28mm are the fastest tire if one is not plus sized (amongst other things).

Obviously some are gonna be too dumb to wipe their own asses.

But I really think doping never left, and the social contract of pro cycling has always been very omerta heavy "we lie to the outside world" and now the reputation is somehow better than before everybody is just playing along.

 

[Pozzovivo]

The *** hilarity is Vingegaard admitting to W/kg estimates being accurate.

Why does this matter?

 

[Rob5091]

But I really think doping never left, and the social contract of pro cycling has always been very omerta heavy "we lie to the outside world" and now the reputation is somehow better than before everybody is just playing along.

There's a lot more money too so guys have an extra incentive not to blab.

 

[zlev11]

Why does this matter?

because it shuts down the "bikes and tires are better" BS. the increase in speeds is all down to the watts coming from the riders legs.

 

[Unchained]

because it shuts down the "bikes and tires are better" BS. the increase in speeds is all down to the watts coming from the riders legs.

It's funny that in some thread there was Merckx - Pogacar comparison.. So wool shorts, natural chamois, steel frame, aluminum rims w 32 spokes, 7 or 8 speed cassette w downtube ,friction shifters, diet regiment that included mandatory massive meat consumption.. Months off in off season, folklore about lifting weights, doing any cross training, walking, ..glued on tires that often failed for a variety of reasons!! Asking a Eddy era racer if they were aerodynamic.. Their bikes and wheels were cutting drag or reducing watts..would have looked at you as crazy.. Tell old racer that they need a wind tunnel.. Would have laughed you out of the room.

 

[zlev11]

It's funny that in some thread there was Merckx - Pogacar comparison.. So wool shorts, natural chamois, steel frame, aluminum rims w 32 spokes, 7 or 8 speed cassette w downtube ,friction shifters, diet regiment that included mandatory massive meat consumption.. Months off in off season, folklore about lifting weights, doing any cross training, walking, ..glued on tires that often failed for a variety of reasons!! Asking a Eddy era racer if they were aerodynamic.. Their bikes and wheels were cutting drag or reducing watts..would have looked at you as crazy.. Tell old racer that they need a wind tunnel.. Would have laughed you out of the room.

i dont even think there's any reliable video to figure out the watts/kg Merckx was doing in any race he ever did, so anyone trying to compare him to Pogacar with all things being equal is in fact a gigantic idiot.

 

[Froome]

The peloton, including the best riders, appear to be more weaker this year, compared to last years. Let's see how things will go in the next months.

Maybe the CO rebreather has something to do with this.

 

[noob]

The peloton, including the best riders, appear to be more weaker this year, compared to last years. Let's see how things will go in the next months.

Maybe the CO rebreather has something to do with this.

Can't shake the feeling that Visma got a warning after Kuss win 2023. (And when I say warning I don't mean that someone warned them, but that someone inside whateva doping agency they now use told them they can't continue protecting them if it gets out of hand.

Or someone within the team even said "let's take it down a notch"

 

[MartinGT]

Can't shake the feeling that Visma got a warning after Kuss win 2023. (And when I say warning I don't mean that someone warned them, but that someone inside whateva doping agency they now use told them they can't continue protecting them if it gets out of hand.

Or someone within the team even said "let's take it down a notch"

But didn't warn UAE? They and Pog was ridiculous last year.

 

[Rackham]

There's been a few changes in Visma's setup over the past couple of years. Zeeman has left, for example. I still expect Vingegaard to demolish Paris-Nice though.

FYI I haven't watched any of these recent races and I won't watch the upcoming ones either. I'm fine without watching a foregone conclusion.

 

[Red Rick]

People gonna pretend Strade Bianche had tension when it only emphasises how much of a joke the race was. Only the novelty of "omg he didn't instantly drop everyone" keeps people in denial.

 

[noob]

But didn't warn UAE? They and Pog was ridiculous last year.

Maybe it's easier to warn a bike leasing company than the Emirates.

Nah, but I don't get it either. The only new DS in Visma is Broe?

 

[E_F_]

Pogacar and (especially) Vingegaard are less over the top so far this season, but once the Tour rolls around they can't hide their true levels.

 

[Rackham]

The gaps are still huge. Just looking at the top 10, there's a five minute gap between 1 & 10. I mean... le cyclisme à deux vitesses has never been quite so well encapsulated as it is by this current era.

But 'people' do love a superman in sport so they'll gobble it all up.

 

[pastronef]

Can't shake the feeling that Visma got a warning after Kuss win 2023. (And when I say warning I don't mean that someone warned them, but that someone inside whateva doping agency they now use told them they can't continue protecting them if it gets out of hand.

Or someone within the team even said "let's take it down a notch"

but Vingo did his beat EVER perf on Plateau de Beille the following year. you mean they said "ok, don't will all 3 GT again, nor the Kuurne-Omloop 3 times in a row"

 

[zlev11]

The gaps are still huge. Just looking at the top 10, there's a five minute gap between 1 & 10. I mean... le cyclisme à deux vitesses has never been quite so well encapsulated as it is by this current era.

But 'people' do love a superman in sport so they'll gobble it all up.

this field was weaaaaaak but yeah. Pogacar was probably going to attack the first time on Colle Pinzuto but couldn't because he crashed right before it. Pidcocks level was much better than last season, that was really the only difference.

 

[MartinGT]

Pogacar and (especially) Vingegaard are less over the top so far this season, but once the Tour rolls around they can't hide their true levels.

The season is still v young. Lets see what the next few weeks bring.

 

[noob]

but Vingo did his beat EVER perf on Plateau de Beille the following year. you mean they said "ok, don't will all 3 GT again, nor the Kuurne-Omloop 3 times in a row"

Yup. Maybe it's really just bad luck, apart from losing Roglic, which was probably bad for business. So selling Roglic, Wout constantly crashing and losing confidence bc of MvdP, Jonas thrown into a concrete ditch (those images still vivid) makes sense.

Maybe it's Kuss that is the question mark. Maybe he just got post covid. It's either that or less whatever made him perform in the ITT 2023 that he's not getting anymore.