State of the Peloton 2025

[Shakes]

Interesting ARD stuff! Although, those don't explain the improvements in recent years. Nonetheless important to realize that with AICAR there are so many substitutes which are not covered or can't be found in tests... That testing is quite meaningless. Not a stretch there are various others that it applies to, including something in recent years. It's getting more spread across teams (as did EPO) but what it is... And if there really is such a a thing. No idea!

 

[Ripper]

Got to love G stating out loud that current 20 minute power levels are ridiculous and he would not have been able to sustain that for more than 7 minutes or so, when he was at his best.

 

[Ripper]

And in the space of the past few weeks, UAE score six stage wins and two overall victories with two riders.

Remco I am sure is feeling super confident these days 🙄

 

[AmRacer]

Got to love G stating out loud that current 20 minute power levels are ridiculous and he would not have been able to sustain that for more than 7 minutes or so, when he was at his best.

But now he can sustain it for 25 minutes 🤪

 

[SorelyBoy]

I watched the Andorra MoranBanc Classica Final today and what I apparently witnessed was an old fashioned honest ding dong between some top riders. Old fashioned in that they all suffered, and none of the final four or five riders could break away on the final few kilometres. It was a slow grind uphill, almost in slow motion at times, with riders keeping the tempo high and occasionally attacking only to quickly go into the red and being caught. Final sprint from 200m. What a refreshing change from watching someone zoom away up a mountain like he was attached to Nibali’s taxi, with zero sign of any physical discomfort, breezing across the line with a flashy bow to the crowd.

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

Interesting ARD stuff! Although, those don't explain the improvements in recent years. Nonetheless important to realize that with AICAR there are so many substitutes which are not covered or can't be found in tests... That testing is quite meaningless. Not a stretch there are various others that it applies to, including something in recent years. It's getting more spread across teams (as did EPO) but what it is... And if there really is such a a thing. No idea!

I'm not sure there's is a need to go for AICAR substitutes, "standard" AICAR is endogenous, so there are limitations on our ability to test for it.
It's "easy" to detect with an isotopic ratio test, but that's expensive, so you end up setting up a threshold in urine above which the isotope ratio test is applied. But that threshold can't be too low, or you will end up with quite a bit of unnecessary uses of the isotopic test, much like with testosterone and the T/E ratio.
I don't kown what the threshold is nowadays, but in the 2009 reserach paper they seem to have set it at 3500ng/mg, and according to their finding the mean concentration in non doped humans is 552ng/mg, that leaves quite a bit of wiggle room...
AICAR substitutes that are not endogenous might be completely undetectable now, but once they are known and added to the prohibited list, detecting those is child's play (relatively speaking ofc), unless they are very short lived, and the athlete is then in all kind of troubles, so why risk it?

Edit: Regarding TB500 Wim Vansevenant was caught trying to source the stuff while he was the bus driver at lotto in 2011 (cough Gilbert cough) if my memory does not betray me.

 

[Tim Cahill]

I have always felt there could be something funny going on with the bottles, not even necessarily AICAR but the way some act on the bike, the often erratic tactics remind me of old school 80s stimulants, also sometimes looking like zombies during what should be hard efforts resembling heavy painkillers. Pogacars main high-profile cracks are put down to 'forgetting to feed' but maybe it's something else, I'm reminded of the car passing something at the end of Lombardia 2023, speeding to the front during Roubaix, measures taken to conceal what he took, drinking several times during the Dauphine tt (?!). Could just be chatting rubbish anyway, but this idea of very short detection windows cropping up just reminded me.

Anti-doping labs on alert as powdered Aicar reported in Tour de France peloton

Aicar is a fat-burning agent that can now be delivered in powder form, dissolved in water, cola or an energy drink

www.cyclingweekly.com

https://twitter.com/x/status/1775945322587459903

 

[Red Rick]

Thought the pain killer thing wasn't even an open secret anymore with the tramalol positives

 

[Tim Cahill]

Thought the pain killer thing wasn't even an open secret anymore with the tramalol positives

Yeah, Tapentadol, 'Ten times stronger', last source has WADA monitoring 'with view to banning', in big June of 2024

Opiate-based painkiller 'ten times stronger than Tramadol' not banned, worries cycling's authorities

UCI and the Movement for Credible Cycling have raised concerns, according to reports

www.cyclingweekly.com

Anyone taken it, does sound a bit heavy to be cycling on to be fair.

 

[Izzyeviel]

Lidl Trek have announced they're in a partnership with unbroken - a real time recovery tablet derived from salmon.

 

[Rob5091]

Who here remembers the good old days when some poor guy would get busted in the week before the Tour? That particular bit of distraction seems to have ended, and now it's all the postive hoopla and feelgood media as nobody dopes anymore (stop laughing at the back!)

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Who here remembers the good old days when some poor guy would get busted in the week before the Tour? That particular bit of distraction seems to have ended, and now it's all the postive hoopla and feelgood media as nobody dopes anymore (stop laughing at the back!)

Yeah, one could never be sure how long the current leader/winner will remain one! Operation Puerto was a huge scandal and soon afterwards the new, "clean" king (Landis) was stripped of his victory! Next year Rasmussen (likely winner) and Vinokourov were DQ during the race. Next year a wonder boy of italian cycling (Ricco) was arrested by gendarmes. Golden times, lol. Fortunately the current generation of cyclists is honest and clean! (according to Gianetti himself)

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Lidl Trek have announced they're in a partnership with unbroken - a real time recovery tablet derived from salmon.

Salmon show excellent strength and stamina, followed by a frenzy of sexual activity, followed by death from exhaustion. Is this what LidlTrek want for their riders?

 

[Ripper]

That certainly fits the narrative that it's the older generations that wrecked everything and the new generation is doing everything in the right way. Basically pro sports has become a f****** TickTock meme

 

[zlev11]

Who here remembers the good old days when some poor guy would get busted in the week before the Tour? That particular bit of distraction seems to have ended, and now it's all the postive hoopla and feelgood media as nobody dopes anymore (stop laughing at the back!)

i want the good old days when someone would get busted at the tour. 2006-2008. bring it back.

 

[Izzyeviel]

who else remembers the old days of when they filmed all the riders getting tested for epo in the 2000's?

 

[Mayomaniac]

i want the good old days when someone would get busted at the tour. 2006-2008. bring it back.

2006 and 2007 were the biggest hypekillers ever.

 

[zlev11]

i was watching alpe d'huez 2003 before, super doped iban mayo just absolutely sprinting up the entire climb like the road was flat. i looked up the climbing times and pogacar/vingegaard/thomas went exactly the same speed as him in 2022 lol.

 

[zlev11]

2006 and 2007 were the biggest hypekillers ever.

eh, i'd say 2008 hurt the race the most. at least 2006 was already over and in 2007 all the mountain stages were over.

edit: actually i forgot about Vino/Astana in 2007. that did suck.

 

[Mayomaniac]

eh, i'd say 2008 hurt the race the most. at least 2006 was already over and in 2007 all the mountain stages were over.

edit: actually i forgot about Vino/Astana in 2007. that did suck.

2006 had Operacion Puerto preventing the big pre-race favourites from starting.

 

[zlev11]

2006 had Operacion Puerto preventing the big pre-race favourites from starting.

right but i was referencing the busts that happened during the Tour, not before.

 

[pastronef]

2006 had Operacion Puerto preventing the big pre-race favourites from starting.

I so wanted to see Mancebo with Ag2r, on high octane fuel that year

 

[Rob5091]

Ligandol - the experimental drug of choice .... 9 years ago! Well done chaps for busting some Greek guy. I suppose WADA just came up with a test last year when the guy was suspended (and it took more then a year to ban him? Jeezus!)

 

[Mayomaniac]

Ligandol - the experimental drug of choice .... 9 years ago! Well done chaps for busting some Greek guy. I suppose WADA just came up with a test last year when the guy was suspended (and it took more then a year to ban him? Jeezus!)

Nobody serious is taking those bush league sarms, maybe some Ostarine to retain muscle mass in a caloric deficit, some Italian pct riders got busted for it a few years ago.

 

[Rob5091]

Nobody serious is taking those bush league sarms, maybe some Ostarine to retain muscle mass in a caloric deficit, some Italian pct riders got busted for it a few years ago.

Regardles, it's all about timing. In the run up to the Tour, the UCI & WADA can say look, we're busting the cheaters!
(By the way, whatever hppened to the UCI "Moto Czar? A lot of money was thrown his way to find hidden gizmos in bikes and so far, nothing. Maybe that was the whole point of the exercise - PR)