State of the Peloton 2025

[Red Rick]

There was a headwind

Have you looked at Ventoux on a map? Headwind on top means tailwind in the false flat and crosswind in the sheltered part in the forst. The headwind is always there, you can see it on the video from Mayo in the Dauphine at the finish where he has a tailwind at the finish after the 180 degree turn at 100m from the finish. Pretty sure 2021 was slightly different because the wind came from the other side with a tailwind in the final section because despite the 5000m desnivel stage Vingegaard crushed the record for the Chalet Reynard-Ventoux section.

In addition, very close crowds and motorbiks shelter more from the wind than would have happened in 2004. Also, drafting on the first 6 false flat km.

 

[pastronef]

4 minutes faster than Froome 2013. and in 2013 twitter and this forum were exploding

 

[pastronef]

so what youre saying is Jonas, Primož and Florian were faster than Iban and Tadej still has a reserve on top of it. Nice days for cycling in general.

if Pog had wanted he coulda gone faster. or if they worked together they woulda gone faster

 

[meat puppet]

4 minutes faster than Froome 2013. and in 2013 twitter and this forum were exploding

And he didn't even run that year. Those were the days.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Have you looked at Ventoux on a map? Headwind on top means tailwind in the false flat and crosswind in the sheltered part in the forst. The headwind is always there, you can see it on the video from Mayo in the Dauphine at the finish where he has a tailwind at the finish after the 180 degree turn at 100m from the finish. Pretty sure 2021 was slightly different because the wind came from the other side with a tailwind in the final section because despite the 5000m desnivel stage Vingegaard crushed the record for the Chalet Reynard-Ventoux section.

In addition, very close crowds and motorbiks shelter more from the wind than would have happened in 2004. Also, drafting on the first 6 false flat km.

We all know who is still the moral record holder! Clearly my most unbiased take ever!

 

[Rico044]

Also keep in mind Mayo's record was during an uphill TT. So with relatively fresh legs.

 

[E_F_]

Also keep in mind Mayo's record was during an uphill TT. So with relatively fresh legs.

But no Team Visma-Lease a Bike to pace him!!!

 

[Gingivitis]

if Pog had wanted he coulda gone faster. or if they worked together they woulda gone faster

indeed nice days for cycling. Many generational talents at the same time. So much that the phrase kind of loses its meaning.

 

[Red Rick]

We all know who is still the moral record holder! Clearly my most unbiased take ever!

Your views on the moral Ventoux record holder and your passion for thick, creamy French sauces with a rich and tangy taste appear entirely unrelated.

 

[ontheroad]

4 minutes faster than Froome 2013. and in 2013 twitter and this forum were exploding

To think that the Froome Ventoux time was absolutely smashed today is probably a truer barometer of where we lie today. Not comparing times to an EPO fueled era.

But that is where we are now as the goalposts are constantly moved to downplay the current speeds.

 

[Red Rick]

4 minutes faster than Froome 2013. and in 2013 twitter and this forum were exploding

Pogacar's 2023-2024 improvement is nothing compared to the improvement Froomie made in about a week in 2011.

 

[E_F_]

thick, creamy French sauces with a rich and tangy taste

Is @Mayomaniac a vampire..? That's a bit creepy...

 

[E_F_]

indeed nice days for cycling. Many generational talents at the same time. So much that the phrase kind of loses its meaning.

Not so much generational talents as talented generation.

 

[zlev11]

Pogacar's 2023-2024 improvement is nothing compared to the improvement Froomie made in about a week in 2011.

right after he met a certain David Rozman!

 

[Red Rick]

Is @Mayomaniac a vampire..? That's a bit creepy...

You're confusing Mayo with Mauro Gianetti. Understandable but from my understanding they are two very different people.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Have you looked at Ventoux on a map? Headwind on top means tailwind in the false flat and crosswind in the sheltered part in the forst. The headwind is always there, you can see it on the video from Mayo in the Dauphine at the finish where he has a tailwind at the finish after the 180 degree turn at 100m from the finish

I know what you're saying but the wind direction on the exposed section matters far more than on the shelter section when they're heading east from bedoin. You make a good point on the run in from bedoin with the tailwind and the drafting but it's an hour long effort. That wind direction in the last 6-7km is gonna make more of a difference to the overall speed of the ascent

 

[Mayomaniac]

You're confusing Mayo with Mauro Gianetti. Understandable but from my understanding they are two very different people.

I am no bald fraud, I have a full head of hair!

 

[Brumdog66]

Jordan Jegat posted a top 200 all time performance today according to lanterne rouge:

Historical Performances of Vingegaard and Pogačar on Mont Ventoux | Tour de France 2025 Stage 16 - Lanterne Rouge

With a flat stage before Mont Ventoux, it was expected to have some fireworks and huge climbing performances…

lanternerouge.com

 

[Fergoose]

That was grim today. Never mind the GC, you had 30yo multi GT podium winner Mas have good enough legs to drop Arensmen (i.e. Mas on a decent day) only to then (according to UK coverage) lose 90 or 100 seconds on Ventoux to Healy & VPP both of whom could then do repeated sprints including a seemingly full gas sprint to the line. And yes, I am taking into account both of them slowed up repeatedly. They should still not be recovering like that.

I remember around 2008/09 seeing breakaway riders almost grind to a halt on group sprint on a false flat (never mind 9% gradient) and that riders would have the energy for, at most, two sprint attacks on a climb - but usually just one attack, before having to just hang on with fatigue. They were like a different species.

It felt like watching 4x Ricco or Rasmussens on the climb today. So much energy and so much recovery. Very glad I record and fast forward my cycling coverage these days.

Sad to see an EF rider look so suspicious as usually their riders don't raise my eyebrows. Am I left with Decathlon, Movistar, FDJ & possibly Ineos as remotely credible performers this year? What a complete joke of a sport at the moment.

 

[Ripper]

so what youre saying is Jonas, Primož and Florian were faster than Iban and Tadej still has a reserve on top of it. Nice days for cycling in general.

Well he certainly had enough in the tank to easily cover any and all Jonas attacks, and then for good measure drop him for a few at the end. Hardly at his limit.

 

[CleanCiclismo]

I'll just leave this here. TOP 50 ascents on Mont Ventoux

4 riders went faster than the record of Iban Mayo, Oscar Onley was only 25s behind the record. guys like A. Yates, Gall, Vauquelin and Higuita almost got into top 10 of all time on Ventoux. Even Jegat climed at the same pace as Armstrong in 1999. This current peloton is crazy fast at the moment.

 

[Rob5091]

Zach's first rest day guesses (HERE) -

The benchmark: Mont Ventoux in 2021​

Vingegaard – Mont Ventoux in the 2021 Tour de France
Time: 59:15
Estimated Average Power: ~6w/kg

2025 Tour de France Prediction: 6.5-6.9w/kg for 53-56 minutes

Pogi new KOM king on Ventoux with 53.47 according to https://www.strava.com/segments/38095101 (No Vingegaard time though ...)

 

[CleanCiclismo]

Zach's first rest day guesses (HERE) -

Pogi new KOM king on Ventoux with 53.47 according to https://www.strava.com/segments/38095101 (No Vingegaard time though ...)

I wonder why Jonas doesn't upload on strava? Likely the team directive right?

 

[Psycat]

Pogacar's 2023-2024 improvement is nothing compared to the improvement Froomie made in about a week in 2011.

In the case of Pogacar the performance jump is not even fully disclosed in my eyes. I have not seen one stage in which I believe that he is totally going all out and same jump is ridiculous to begin with. Always fresh as a daisy. Then again I am also quite certain Froome sandbagged alot to not draw unwanted attention of course wouldn't come close to the super times of today but he could probably have buried the opposition further etc.

Not that I buy Froomes bilharzia explanation but atleast it's a possible(although very much not probable) one, Pogacar? I don't know what to say.

It's certainly close either way, it's just that one does it from grupetto fodder and the other makes a, truly, incredible improvement upon already being the best cyclist in the world. The former we have, kinda, seen before but the latter is uncharted territory as far as I am aware.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

You're confusing Mayo with Mauro Gianetti. Understandable but from my understanding they are two very different people.

Looking at present day Mayo, you could possibly be excused for being confused.