State of the Peloton 2026

[Netserk]

Coudl you provide a source? never seen that!

Chris Horner's Bio Passport Problem

The American's Vuelta victory might be one of the greatest performances in the history of the sport—if only it hadn't taken place under a cloud of doping suspicion. Horner maintains he's clean, and released six years worth of blood data to prove it. But his troubles just won't go away.

www.outsideonline.com

his own site where it was published is down , so i cant easily find what he published

with internet rot , you need to do some digging

 

[peterfin]

A few points regarding the idea that the performance of youngster is somehow a sign the sport is cleaner: first, they train like a pro today which means their future progress is likely minimal. This makes claims like Seixas becoming the new Pogacar totally overblown. Second, the junior years offer opportunities to test doping and optimize blood values not catched by the blood pasport as their is less risk of being caught.

 

[Pozzovivo]

A few points regarding the idea that the performance of youngster is somehow a sign the sport is cleaner: first, they train like a pro today which means their future progress is likely minimal. This makes claims like Seixas becoming the new Pogacar totally overblown. Second, the junior years offer opportunities to test doping and optimize blood values not catched by the blood pasport as their is less risk of being caught.

I don't see the relevance of the first point to the doping issue other than it may explain why youngsters are able to compete with clean top pro's. The second point, do you have any evidence of this practice in the jr ranks?

I sometimes hear arguments that suggest youngsters are doping to have elevated levels for when they first get enrolled in the ABP. I can point out so many unlikely things that need to be true for this to be the case, but i'll just quote Lance and say that "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". Where is the evidence?

 

[AmRacer]

A few points regarding the idea that the performance of youngster is somehow a sign the sport is cleaner: first, they train like a pro today which means their future progress is likely minimal. This makes claims like Seixas becoming the new Pogacar totally overblown. Second, the junior years offer opportunities to test doping and optimize blood values not catched by the blood pasport as their is less risk of being caught.

Does that explain why Sexias outclimbed Contador?

 

[Pozzovivo]

Does that explain why Sexias outclimbed Contador?

No. He had favorable wind conditions which is very rare on that climb and he was paced by world class riders the entire way. That is why they climbed so fast. If and most likely when they climb much slower next year, will you take that as evidence against them doping?

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

For ethical reasons yes. It is a difference between offering drugs to grown men and teenagers, basically everyone agrees with this. I work with medical professionals and age is a very relevant consideration for ethical practice.

But to follow your logic, why didn't they before? Many accounts of riders who said that this was something that was offered to senior riders and leaders. Only with time did they get the same stuff.

I'm a little late, but i don't get your argument here, the people peddling doping products to "grown ups" already have "flexible" ethics, what makes you think they would stop at teenagers?

 

[Pozzovivo]

I'm a little late, but i don't get your argument here, the people peddling doping products to "grown ups" already have "flexible" ethics, what makes you think they would stop at teenagers?

Your point is well taken. Some would and some wouldn't. I personally don't think that talented teenagers are rushed into a doping system by teams or doctors. That strikes me as too sinister, but maybe i'm naive on that point. But a non-naive thing to do is to ask for evidence on this, not conspiracies? Anyone, anything?

There is a lot of risk involved with that and as a risk management strategy you would want to keep these kinds of things within a close circle. Offering PED to 18 year olds because they are talented and Decathlon or whoever is just desperate to win Algarve or any similar race is such a stretch.

 

[Netserk]

i think the ambitious kids dont wait around for an offer , they reach out

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

Your point is well taken. Some would and some wouldn't. I personally don't think that talented teenagers are rushed into a doping system by teams or doctors. That strikes me as too sinister, but maybe i'm naive on that point. But a non-naive thing to do is to ask for evidence on this, not conspiracies? Anyone, anything?

There is a lot of risk involved with that and as a risk management strategy you would want to keep these kinds of things within a close circle. Offering PED to 18 year olds because they are talented and Decathlon or whoever is just desperate to win Algarve or any similar race is such a stretch.

I think you're a bit naive, yes but all credit to you for that instead of being cynical. As for hard proof, there is none for today, but it was done in the past (See the GDR or Armstrong).

To say they would be offering PED to win Algarve is kind of a understatement, it's about the biggest races of the season, no?

 

[Rob5091]

Teens take PEDs?! I'm shocked at just the thought of it .... wait a moment ... Feb 2025,
https://road.cc/content/news/225039...fails-anti-doping-control-after-regional-race

A 14-year-old cyclist in Italy is believed to be the youngest rider ever to have failed an anti-doping control ...

 

[Pozzovivo]

I think you're a bit naive, yes but all credit to you for that instead of being cynical. As for hard proof, there is none for today, but it was done in the past (See the GDR or Armstrong).

To say they would be offering PED to win Algarve is kind of a understatement, it's about the biggest races of the season, no?

I thought the Armstrong example showed my point of view. Clean the first few years at least and then coming to the realization that one can't compete for the big wins without PED.

Sure, a bit silly example by me on the Algarve - I thought I made myself clear. What I mean is that Seixas is competitive with the best GC guys, barring the two astronauts, and that this indicates to me that one does not have to endure the years (1000 days according to Tyler Hamilton) of getting crushed before joining the club.

My thinking is this: Either there is no club, or the club is wide open even for teenagers on Groupama-FDJ and other teams who are members of the MPCC. I think if the latter is true, we would have known more about it. Very hard to keep those secrets if they run wild in a teenage milieu.

I think most races are won by basically clean riders - but I don't know why everyone is so freaking good. I'd like to understand more about that.

 

[Netserk]

Clean the first few years at least and then coming to the realization that one can't compete for the big wins without PED.

yeah im pretty sure he doped as a teenager

 

[Pozzovivo]

yeah im pretty sure he doped as a teenager

Based on?

 

[Pozzovivo]

Teens take PEDs?! I'm shocked at just the thought of it .... wait a moment ... Feb 2025,
https://road.cc/content/news/225039...fails-anti-doping-control-after-regional-race

Thanks for linking to the article. A concerning read. One positive I take away is that they were caught with using the old school stuff like EPO and steroids. We actually have very good testing for those things. This is, incidentally, what most Kenyan runners are being busted for still today. Old school stuff easily detectable when the authorities want to detect it. Which they actually want in France at least.

 

[Netserk]

Based on?

the personel of the time and his personality

i think its very unlikely that he didnt take roids until 92

 

[Rou]

View: https://youtu.be/ZdDHtLP3oEs?t=0&si=BhBAXtSvLZ5CQ0-z

Next time you see something and you think: 'Wow! This performance is too good to be real!' - there is a chance it's not real.
This is what two students with some free time can do. Imagine what millions of dollars can achieve.

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

Based on?

There were quite a bit of hearsay about how he was a corticoid abuser during his teenage years, but nothing definitive as far as i remember. Considering his entourage at the time though...

 

[Pozzovivo]

View: https://youtu.be/ZdDHtLP3oEs?t=0&si=BhBAXtSvLZ5CQ0-z

Next time you see something and you think: 'Wow! This performance is too good to be real!' - there is a chance it's not real.
This is what two students with some free time can do. Imagine what millions of dollars can achieve.

Classic GCN. Take a good idea and do a poor job with it.

The whole thing is irrelevant - the point must be to build a bike with an engine of sorts that doesn't get detected by the UCI scanners. BUT THEY DIDN'T EVEN TRY THAT?!

NO ONE DOUBTED THAT TWO ENGINEERING STUDENTS COULD BUILD A BATTERY ENGINE INSIDE A BIKE (and wheel)?????

Jesus lord.

 

[Pozzovivo]

Hey, I admit that Lance was dodgy @Netserk @ColonelKidneyBeans

But even if Lance was being Lance, still, most riders tell stories of getting to the WT, but finding it impossible to compete with people who used PED. Then they start themselves.

 

[Netserk]

Hey, I admit that Lance was dodgy @Netserk @ColonelKidneyBeans

But even if Lance was being Lance, still, most riders tell stories of getting to the WT, but finding it impossible to compete with people who used PED. Then they start themselves.

yes i also think that clean riders were common ( before they eventually started doping or were filtered out )

but i think today is more like the mid 90s in that its very hard to even get the first two years in the pro peloton without assistance . in the tour peloton there could be not a single one

 

[Red Rick]

I seriously doubt that talented teenagers are being offered doping products by their teams and coaches in their starting years.

Can't speak for cycling, but my experience in tennis can only laugh at it. At least one coach I trained under recommended another kid go on growth hormones, and he wasn't that undersized, nor was he anywhere near pro level prospect.

And that's only the tiniest tip of the iceberg. Child abuse or neglect in top level junior sports is *** common

 

[Red Rick]

Hey, I admit that Lance was dodgy @Netserk @ColonelKidneyBeans

But even if Lance was being Lance, still, most riders tell stories of getting to the WT, but finding it impossible to compete with people who used PED. Then they start themselves.

And we should believe them because?

It's just the next stage of "I'm cleanz" marketing. It's no longer "I never used" but "I got there cleanz and only used for so long, and now I regret it."

I am still waiting for someone to admit they were on the sauce since 5 minutes after they got rid of their training wheels and that they only regret getting busted. Get Riccardo Ricco on a podcast damnit.

 

[Netserk]

And we should believe them because?

It's just the next stage of "I'm cleanz" marketing. It's no longer "I never used" but "I got there cleanz and only used for so long, and now I regret it."

I am still waiting for someone to admit they were on the sauce since 5 minutes after they got rid of their training wheels and that they only regret getting busted. Get Riccardo Ricco on a podcast damnit.

when rasmussen tells of how he taught hesjedal how to use epo , i do think its likely that hesjedal didnt use it before that

Report: Rasmussen claims he taught Hesjedal how to take EPO | Cyclingnews.com

Former Danish rider reveals his doping secrets in an autobiography

www.cyclingnews.com

but i also think rasmussen is unreliable wrt when he started doping , as he is clearly proud of his test performances that he supposedly did clean

 

[Pozzovivo]

And we should believe them because?

It's just the next stage of "I'm cleanz" marketing. It's no longer "I never used" but "I got there cleanz and only used for so long, and now I regret it."

I am still waiting for someone to admit they were on the sauce since 5 minutes after they got rid of their training wheels and that they only regret getting busted. Get Riccardo Ricco on a podcast damnit.

I'm giving people the benefit of the doubt, in cycling and in life most of the time. But some people also like to believe in a bunch conspiracies and that the world is ***** them over for no good reason. That's also not a very rigorous way to look at things.

Believe them because Hamilton, Hincapie, Landis and the rest were subpoenaed and swore to tell the truth. As in it was a crime to lie. And they most likely did tell the truth there as far as we now. Many of those stories have been supported by many others, while Lance lied and lost big money on that approach.

But this was 25 years ago of course.

Also, Ricco is a joke and an outlier. Normal people are not like him.

 

[Red Rick]

I'm giving people the benefit of the doubt, in cycling and in life most of the time. But some people also like to believe in a bunch conspiracies and that the world is ***** them over for no good reason. That's also not a very rigorous way to look at things.

Believe them because Hamilton, Hincapie, Landis and the rest were subpoenaed and swore to tell the truth. As in it was a crime to lie. And they most likely did tell the truth there as far as we now. Many of those stories have been supported by many others, while Lance lied and lost big money on that approach.

But this was 25 years ago of course.

Also, Ricco is a joke and an outlier. Normal people are not like him.

I also believe most people want to be fundamentally decent. I also believe nearly everyone has morals that are flexible in one way or another, because there is simply 0 evolutionary benefit to having inflexible morals.

Mostly though, elite youth sports is fundamentally not an environment of average people. People are extremely competitive, opportunity cost is huge, potential pay off is huge as well, and being a good boy is rewarded with absolutely nothing but the guarantee you're not making it to the top.